Complaints about the CCL process - prints vs no prints.

[JackTripper]

Have had mine since March 3rd. For those complaining about the cost, how much did you spend on your last ammo run?

Best $55 I ever spent!

[spu69]

I have the answer.

 

A solution to clear all of this up.

 

ISP could publish the workflow diagrams along with raw numbers of volume running through those workflows.

 

 

Transparency. Problem solved. Will they do it?

 

Unlikely.

[Molly B.]

Not so sure why my post was removed? Fact is there were a few no prints through in the initial wave over 5 weeks ago now. Then there were none, zero, zip no prints for 4 more weeks (at least not reported here) until this week. Those are pretty much facts. With prints have gone through in as fast as 32 days or something like that now. At least from people that post here. Those parts are fact.

 

Can you not understand how those of us that are squeaky clean, uncommon names, applied at the stroke of midnight on 1/5, blah blah blah blah can't be just a wee bit peeved at the process? This is the same government with recent governors in jail. It's kind of hard right now to give a lot of benefit of doubt.

 

Oh, I understand the frustrations, I really do. However, it is incorrect and unfair to say the ISP stopped progress, intentionally withholds apps, no apps approved without prints, etc based solely on the ones reported on this site.

[67vtx1800]

Sitting back and destroying ISP isn't productive. However, stating that the process is working well isn't all that accurate. 29,000 apps is great. But it's obvious with the small sample here, that the early applicants are stuck in queue and rightfully so are feeling looked over when 34 day approvals start happening. The 30 day apps should be taking a back seat. They still have another 60days to wait. Just like the beta testers did.

[Wapner]

Wasn't really a matter of the $ for me with prints, don't get me wrong $55 is $55 not something I would want to spend if I didn't have to. Thinking it would expedite the process I went to get them done in advance of training. Showed up (location near me) they were closed on a Wednesday that they listed as open. So I called, put on hold forever, eventually they told me they were open ever other Wednesday from like 11:00 -2:00. Next week I left work early showed up at 1:35 and they were closed. Called and called, no answer, put on hold, eventually gave up. Finally they were supposed to be at the range to do prints the 2nd day of my class, so I was like, ok, no big deal. Well, they didn't show up to that either. Not wanting to waste anymore time with obtaining these elusive prints I submitted the night of completing training w/o them.

 

Wish I could leave early or just not show up to work and still have a job. Ridiculous, whoever these people are.

[Wapner]

I should add, I saw on livescan website I could of made an appointment online, but since my leaving work early was rolling the dice I didn't want to put a hole in their schedule if by chance I couldn't get off so assumed walk in would be fine. Assumed they key word there.

[AL Bundy]

 

You may have a completely clean record, but if you are in a stack of apps that are not clean and take days to clear, you will be sitting in the stack until they get through the ones filed before you. Plain and simple. Prints or no prints.

If that is the case, it will eventually become a log jam and the ISP will be missing the legal deadlines. Why not set up a system that if a processing worker comes across an application that requires a higher level of investigation, it gets set into another pile of such cases, handled by the most capable workers? You would increase the approval volume exponentially.

 

 

As it currently is functioning, my opinion is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck.

[Jeff Johnson]

Since all apps are digital and not paper, I can't understand data sets being in any kind of "stack".

It's not like my app slid off and is stuck between a desk and the wall.

The process, whatever else it is, is inconsistent.

[divemaster03]

I think that the fact that the isp will take up to 120 days to issue a permit is a bunch of bullhonkey, prints or no prints. And they WILL take up to the full 120 days, which to me is criminal.

[Molly B.]

You are wrong if you are saying they will intentionally take/stall/hold any application for 120 days just because they can. I have met the team working on this, they are hardworking, dedicated folks who take meeting/beating the deadlines very, very serious.

[Molly B.]

"stack" - it's figurative. Use the word que instead. Same thing.

[AL Bundy]

You are wrong if you are saying they will intentionally take/stall/hold any application for 120 days just because they can. I have met the team working on this, they are hardworking, dedicated folks who take meeting/beating the deadlines very, very serious.

 

I don't doubt the people that you met are as you described. However, this is Illinois, orders come from the top and an approval system could be being used that produces this result. The people you met could be totally in the dark about it, but it still produces the results that are desired by top state anti cc big wigs. I don't see this opinion as being far fetched or unrealistic.

[spec5]

Conspiracy. Tin Foil Hats please. <purple off> If it shouldn't be in purple then pretend it isn't. This thread is full of pessimistic conjecture.

[Prairie Pucker]

Conspiracy. Tin Foil Hats please. <purple off> If it shouldn't be in purple then pretend it isn't. This thread is full of pessimistic conjecture.

 

Cold, hard facts and data about the process would go a long way towards shutting it off.

[us820]

Tell me what is happening in 120 days that can't be done in 90 days.

 

Like inspector Columbo is interviewing all my associates for month.Let's face it,they put in info and press "enter"-where they find the other 2 sets of prints I have done before and a clean record.

 

Prints get done in 34 days and mine can't get done in 92? Nonsense.

[ragsbo]

The problem that leads to frustration is the inconsistencies in the issue process. IF everyone who filed on a certain date with prints or with out prints (and who did not have problems) got theirs at or about the same time, then I would not be as p***** about sitting here waiting because I figure that is what the system takes. BUT when people in the same boat as I (date and no prints) get theirs and I am still sitting here counting the days, it tends to make me feel like I have been screwed some how. And being told that mine must be in a stack that is taking way longer to go through than others DOES NOT make me feel any better. Then you hear about someone just now applying and getting theirs in 30 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, the frustration level is growing and will continue to grow until someone clears this mess up.

[YooperScott]

Ok guys I figured it out. There is a special que for many of us, it's for when you are 'too' clean and they stick you in a 'special' line where they check harder. That line is taking a long time to clear because they simply cannot find anything but they keep checking, hence taking SO long.

[divemaster03]

with respect and deference to you Molly, the isp website says 120 days to process a no print application. So, why shouldn't they take the full 120 days? As others have mentioned, with the inconsistent way in which permits are being processed, all the isp is serving to do is create a lot of frustrated and angry permit applicants. And it does seem as if that is the intent of the isp.

[Franko]

Ok guys I figured it out. There is a special que for many of us, it's for when you are 'too' clean and they stick you in a 'special' line where they check harder. That line is taking a long time to clear because they simply cannot find anything but they keep checking, hence taking SO long.

This has crossed my mind. Really..

[AL Bundy]

Conspiracy. Tin Foil Hats please. <purple off> If it shouldn't be in purple then pretend it isn't. This thread is full of pessimistic conjecture.

 

Being suspicious of the political workings in Illinois is far from tinfoil hat wearing. Especially since there is vast inconsistencies in approval times between those who submitted prints and those who did not.

[ragsbo]

 

Conspiracy. Tin Foil Hats please. <purple off> If it shouldn't be in purple then pretend it isn't. This thread is full of pessimistic conjecture.

 

Being suspicious of the political workings in Illinois is far from tinfoil hat wearing. Especially since there is vast inconsistencies in approval times between those who submitted prints and those who did not.

 

There is also inconsistencies in the same category! THAT is the problem.

[Elmer Fudd]

 

.Actually, ISP pretty much told me in an email they are making me wait. They said there is no problem with my app so they are just going to sit on it until they feel like sending it out. probably on day 120. And Molly I have to respectfully disagree with the 120 days since many permits are being approved 60 days or less. If I'm not mistaken the law says 30 days extra for for those that didn't pay the ransom.

 

 

 

I want to see that email. Send me a PM if you don't want to post it here. We do not agree with the ISP on everything and we have voiced our opinions and objections but I've also seen the processs, I know how hard people there are working on this. I won't sit back and see them be slammed because some folks don't under stand the process.

 

 

Permit me to preface my comment with a bit of background. There are more than a few members of this forum that know me directly, and I trust would agree that I have been "bit" by ISP by several orders of magnitude beyond for any one of you that has applied for a CCL license has had to deal with. Let's start by stipulation that besides being an NRA Instructor and NRA Life Endowment member since 1982...I am hold a Federal Firearms License - Type 01 - that is a RETAIL FIREARMS DEALER..not a C&R...in Evanston, that is Cook County..having gone through the vetting by BATFE, FBI, Homeland Security, and the City zoning. In addition, I was CCL Instructor License #4...I have no need to go back to the situation that bit me in the butt. Its a work in progress, and any of you that have been here know the history. Am I amped up...you bet....am I not pleased, you bet, do I have one iota of thought that it is deliberate on the part of ISP....no way. My sense is that the statue it new, the process is new, and as such, it is going to take time to work through it. Before any single one of you guy whine, think about it from my situation....through no fault of my own I got popped...and haven't been able to run a training class or engage in business as an FFL for what is going on six months..gentlemen..that isn't a hobby...think about it thats a full on FFL in Cook County...."dead in the water". I have no problem in working through the thought process to state without equivocation that MY ISSUE AS A BUSINESS OWNER IMPACTED ON THE ABILITY TO EARN A LIVING TRUMPS YOUR NEED FOR A CCL PERMIT. If you disagree..wonderful...I am willing to reserve time for that discussion....let's be really careful to distinguish between the rights and obligations associated with your need to earn a living to feed a family as opposed with the need to own a firearm. If you imply that the need for arms is greater....I will easily look you in the face and call BS.

 

If that model doesn't apply..and you aren't relying upon the ability to carry a concealed firearm to be able to earn your livelihood...my thought is it will happen in due time. I am perhaps the last person that has any love for ISP...however, the reason for why is situation based. The CCL process has worked remarkably well...if you got ginked on a permit applicaiton for a clerical error, or a training flaw....shut it, own it, and live with it. It will get resolved. Valinda is 200% right...the system will work...if you got the short end of the stick be DAMN SURE you know the reason why and move from there. If its due to stupid on your part...e.g. not filling the form out right or bad training own it. Don't expect anyone to carry your water, and assume you are going to pay for it...if an appeal is necessary...dig into your wallet, burp up the funds and go from there. Don't expect NRA or any other group to cover unless and until a pattern is established. Anyone that asserts that ISP deliberately held up the process.....perhaps ought be held back, pending a thorough mental health screening any one of a dozen valid reasons. If that's harsh so be it.

 

The prior comments are correct...I am confident that ISP is doing the best that is can to push CCL licenses out to applicants. Why do I believe that...30+ years experience in dealing with government process with tax issues. The mindset required to assert otherwise requires being inclined to a paranoid mindset....sorry...not here...no go. Let's see what happens.

[Molly B.]

with respect and deference to you Molly, the isp website says 120 days to process a no print application. So, why shouldn't they take the full 120 days? As others have mentioned, with the inconsistent way in which permits are being processed, all the isp is serving to do is create a lot of frustrated and angry permit applicants. And it does seem as if that is the intent of the isp.

I am surprised and amazed at folks who enter into agreement and when their fellow members receive their license early, instead of celebrating that member's good fortune they complain ... I've heard this story before but I've never seen it played out in real life like this...

[Elmer Fudd]

 

with respect and deference to you Molly, the isp website says 120 days to process a no print application. So, why shouldn't they take the full 120 days? As others have mentioned, with the inconsistent way in which permits are being processed, all the isp is serving to do is create a lot of frustrated and angry permit applicants. And it does seem as if that is the intent of the isp.

I am surprised and amazed at folks who enter into agreement and when their fellow members receive their license early, instead of celebrating that member's good fortune they complain ... I've heard this story before but I've never seen it played out in real life like this...

 

Well put...one ought appreciate their good fortune, and if another among us has it....accept it...your turn is coming.

[spec5]

Seems like this thread has played out. IBTL Wish the ones who haven't received their CCL's yet get them soon. I think MollyB has done her best in pointing out the process and she is getting nowhere with a few. Frustration is one thing, accusations are another.

[Molly B.]

Yes, the celebration of good news overshadowed.

[GT1]

Human nature, some folks are going to pay for a lesser option, and then cry because they did.

[BMAC]

I can understand why many of you are frustrated. I am one of the lucky ones (a rarity). I received my Illionis CCL today, I applied on 6 March with fingerprints (37 days).

[Prairie Pucker]

 

 

The prior comments are correct...I am confident that ISP is doing the best that is can to push CCL licenses out to applicants. Why do I believe that...30+ years experience in dealing with government process with tax issues. The mindset required to assert otherwise requires being inclined to a paranoid mindset....sorry...not here...no go. Let's see what happens.

 

 

This is not intended as a personal swipe, but why would 30+ years of experience dealing with the govt on tax issues make your opinion of the current situation with the ISP any more valid than someone else's? ISP leadership has hindered CC in Illinois any way possible. Now they're being forced to issue. Why would one believe that their obstructive behavior in the past would suddenly change to cooperation and facilitation?

 

 

I am surprised and amazed at folks who enter into agreement and when their fellow members receive their license early, instead of celebrating that member's good fortune they complain ... I've heard this story before but I've never seen it played out in real life like this...

 

 

Speaking solely for myself, I (reluctantly) entered into the "120 agreement" because 90/120 was the best information available at the time. That was then; this is now, and substantially more data is available. There are inconsistencies in that data. It shows that, under the right conditions, much shorter flowtimes than 90 days with are possible. The facile pushback that the ISP "has 120 days without so just be quiet till then" may be technically true, but it doesn't shed any light on the cause of the inconsistencies. Wouldn't the citizens of Illinois be better served if the flowtimes were driven as short as possible? The experience gained processing ~30,000 licenses---heck, 30,000 of anything---should naturally result in a better process. Why shouldn't we be the beneficiaries of that now, approaching nearly 4 months later?

 

Paranoid? I think not. This. Is. Illinois. Hardly a day goes by where the breaking news doesn't carry yet another story of crooked dealing and gross inefficiency in some agency of state government. IMO, it would be naive to believe this is all above board. Especially not with the potential extra millions the ISP stands to generate if applicants can be coerced into coughing up the extra dough. Is it illegal? Probably not technically. But......

 

I am not suggesting that the rank and file ISP employees are not hard working and dedicated. I expect they're doing their jobs exactly as they've been instructed. They'd put their jobs at risk if they did otherwise. Leadership and management......eh....

[Molly B.]

 

I am not suggesting that the rank and file ISP employees are not hard working and dedicated. I expect they're doing their jobs exactly as they've been instructed. They'd put their jobs at risk if they did otherwise. Leadership and management......eh....

 

 

 

So you agree then, that the rank and file are getting the licenses out as quickly as they can and in the process are getting things lined out for smoother flow in the near future. Good. Appreciate that because that is exactly what you will see.