DDM Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:14 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:14 PM http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02/27/chicagos-gun-problem-there-are-too-many/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDM Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:20 PM Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:20 PM Interested read so I figured I would share. The writer of the article blames the guns themselves being the problem and then states that it's too easy to buy guns in surrounding areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:33 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:33 PM Too many criminals in Chicago! What's the adage "correlation does not equal causation" Falling in to that trap one can conclude just about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLMOPE Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:43 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:43 PM When guns start committing crimes without human help I will agree with him. Until that time I will lay the blame for crime on criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draal Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:49 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 04:49 PM Too many criminals in Chicago! What's the adage "correlation does not equal causation" Falling in to that trap one can conclude just about anything. Well said. Look at the author's last words: "So until the nation as a whole can figure out a way to curb the sales of guns used in crimes, Chicago seems better suited to spend its efforts committing its time, effort and money into the neighborhoods affected most by violent crime." So how does the "nation as a whole" method work? My guess: more unnecessary gun restrictions aimed at the good folks trying to fend off the wolves. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googe1227 Posted February 28, 2015 at 05:05 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 05:05 PM "........... can figure out a way to curb the sales of guns used in crimes, Chicago seems better suited to spend its efforts committing its time, effort and money into the neighborhoods affected most by violent crime." So basically he's saying that FFLs need to be able to see into and predict the future use of the guns they sell. Let me know when that happens and I will be glad to support their efforts. Until then please leave me alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauser98 Posted February 28, 2015 at 05:14 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 05:14 PM Drugs like meth, cocaine, and heroine are illegal everywhere in the country, yet they are still plentiful in Chicago. Laws prohibiting them outside of the city hasn't stopped them. This guy has the naive attitude that one more law will make the difference. It's just ridiculous. The only thing that you can do is deal with the people that are committing the crimes, when they commit them. It is a small percentage of the city, but guys like this don't want to be bothered with reality. They want to stick it to everybody. It's not a lack of laws, but a lack of enforcement. Articles like this are beyond aggravating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Pucker Posted February 28, 2015 at 06:12 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 06:12 PM For a supposedly educated guy, the author comes across like an ignorant anti-gun tool. Guns don't just grow legs, walk into Chicago and cause crime by their mere presence. Guns get to Chicago due to the market force of criminal demand. Legal or black market makes zero difference to criminal clientele. But much like Obama refuses to say "Islamic terrorists," the author won't acknowledge criminals as the root cause of the problem. The liberal mind apparently derives greater gratification by directing token laws at objects than it does by removing from polite society those who criminally misuse the objects. Go figure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted February 28, 2015 at 06:28 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 06:28 PM In one breath the aithor says almost all of the guns used in crimes were legitimately transferred through an FFL at some point, in the next he says we need universal background checks. Los Angeles is surrounded on all sides by gun friendly states so to somehow argue being surrounded by gun friendly states is what makes Chicago's problem so bad is a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markthesignguy Posted February 28, 2015 at 10:57 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 10:57 PM Another ignorant know-nothing so called journalist blathering on, regurgitating swallowed propaganda and innuendo as research and then pretends insight. Then sensing his ignorance, tries to mitigate his blatant hypocrisy with a final placating two paragraphs. He seems unable to even THINK THOUGH logically what he has just written. The lights are on, but no one is home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911 .45 Posted February 28, 2015 at 11:49 PM Share Posted February 28, 2015 at 11:49 PM It's not that there are to many guns in Chicago. But due to all their ignorant gun laws over the last 30+ years, all the wrong people have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted March 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 12:40 AM The real problem is that the ratio of illegally owned firearms is far greater than the ratio of legally owned and carried firearms in Chicago. That disparity alone is the reason that there is so many more murders per population unit in Chicago than elsewhere. The law that would make the most difference is one that makes using an illegally owned firearm actually in the commission of a crime that does not involve self-defense an automatic life sentence offense, with no parole. The standard for conviction should be: 1—Was the firearm used by someone without a FOID or CCL? If no, then normal possible prosecution and criminal penalties apply. If yes, then go to . . . 2—Was the offense committed in defense of self, others, or one's home/property, perhaps in such a way that if the perpetrator had a FOID or CCL then it would not even have been a crime? If yes, then normal possible prosecution and criminal penalties apply. If no, then go to . . . . . . JAIL FOREVER. This should be adjudicated entirely separately from any other crime that the accused might be charged with, in terms of this penalty being applied. However, in determining the penalty for other crimes, the use of an illegally owned firearm could, and should, also enhance those penalties as well. Any deals made to reduce such a sentence should be ruled on by a panel of three judges, rather than come from a prosecutor. That way, lawyers and offenders would have to convince the panel that the benefit to society for not sending offenders to jail for the rest of their natural lives would need to be agreed upon by at least two judges, and be part of open record, rather than be a "behind doors" deal. This one, simple judicial change would reduce the number of recidivist firearm offenders, as well as illegal firearm use offenders, by a massive amount. It would also shift penitential focus to violent crimes, rather than the BS drug use charges, because the amount of resources needed to incarcerate so many offenders is limited, and necessity would dictate that non-violent offenders get the non-imprisonment plea deals, fines, or treatment because it would cost less to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnnuguy Posted March 1, 2015 at 05:14 AM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 05:14 AM "The real problem is that the ratio of illegally owned firearms is far greater than the ratio of legally owned and carried firearms in Chicago. That disparity alone is the reason that there is so many more murders per population unit in Chicago than elsewhere" What? Where did you pull that stat from? What do you base that assertion on? More murders because of more guns? Does a gun know it's illegal?What is this magical ratio you claim is the reason? The reason we have a problem is TOO many STUPID people doin STUPID things for STUPID reasons and very little chance of prosecution, all fostered by lib social engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted March 1, 2015 at 05:27 AM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 05:27 AM You know, nobody else has mentioned this so I may as well take the leap... Maybe there's so much more violence in Chicago because the cops keep taking their guns away. It's not so violent in cities where they take less guns away. And, at the end of the day, it’s clear that Chicago will be flooded with guns regardless of Chicago’s gun laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted March 1, 2015 at 07:00 AM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 07:00 AM "The real problem is that the ratio of illegally owned firearms is far greater than the ratio of legally owned and carried firearms in Chicago. That disparity alone is the reason that there is so many more murders per population unit in Chicago than elsewhere" What? Where did you pull that stat from? What do you base that assertion on? More murders because of more guns? Does a gun know it's illegal?What is this magical ratio you claim is the reason? The reason we have a problem is TOO many STUPID people doin STUPID things for STUPID reasons and very little chance of prosecution, all fostered by lib social engineering. Well, those stupid people are, in fact, doing those stupid things with illegal guns, as proven by the very report and statistics that the article references. The fact that there are far fewer legally carried firearms can be easily inferred from the fact that Chicago currently has, until this past year, very few legitimate firearm carriers, thus the people carrying and using illegally were the ones driving up the firearm murder rate. However, since the advent of legal concealed carry, that trend is reversing. However, there are, and still will continue to be, a huge number of illegally carried and used firearms being used during crimes, and causing further murders. Therefore, the solution to that is to not only arm people legally, but permanently punish those using them for crimes—which would also reverse that small chance of prosecution that you mentioned. I obviously agree with you that there should be much more prosecution of people using illegally owned firearms in crimes, given my suggested solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googe1227 Posted March 1, 2015 at 06:58 PM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 06:58 PM Unfortunately, while I agree with you, those types of prosecutions will never happen. Because the pols, the black caucus in particular, will continue to fight against them because they create a "disparate impact" on their communities. Justice is supposed to be blind, however, the black caucus believes that Justice should not be color blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Destro Posted March 1, 2015 at 09:48 PM Share Posted March 1, 2015 at 09:48 PM Well gee, I wonder how many hi-points, cobras, and jennings make up those firearms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted March 2, 2015 at 12:01 AM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 12:01 AM Well gee, I wonder how many hi-points, cobras, and jennings make up those firearms? I believe the technical term for that would be "sh!t tons." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka Posted March 2, 2015 at 01:56 AM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 01:56 AM I wonder which of those guns got up, loaded themselves and killed someone on their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTHunter Posted March 2, 2015 at 04:08 AM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 04:08 AM Ronin - they are trying to set up a special "gun court" in St. Louis and try all "gun crimes". The problem is that this would ALSO include CCP holders that have some minor violation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted March 2, 2015 at 05:16 AM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 05:16 AM Ronin - they are trying to set up a special "gun court" in St. Louis and try all "gun crimes". The problem is that this would ALSO include CCP holders that have some minor violation! That's why the specific stipulations using illegal firearms, not being a FOID or CCL holder, and using said illegal weapons for "excusable" purposes is a key necessity for pursuing the kind of prosecution that I delineated. If the firearm isn't illegally owned and is not actually being used in the commission of a crime (note, not just being owned illegally or being owned and not used during the crime), then the point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thobart Posted March 2, 2015 at 02:02 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 02:02 PM This whole argument is silly: Look 1st of all it is not a gun problem, it is a violence problem. We know who commits violence. We know they have been arrested. We basically know where they live. We also have plenty of laws on the books to put and keep them in jail (we don't need any more laws on this). We need the will to put the criminals in jail for the things we catch them doing. Instead in order to to "violate" someones not in the constitution rights, we give in to emotional crud. We need to charge and convict criminals for the stuff we catch them at. This is the solution to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 2, 2015 at 03:00 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 03:00 PM They want to blame the guns for the crime. I counter with a different correlation. Voting Democrat causes crime. All the highest crime areas in the country have democratic mayors and officials. In fact, most of the worst of the worst are in very Democratic areas. QED. (This analysis makes just as much sense as the attached article, which does nothing but blame lawful gun owners in the suburbs for Chicago's gang violence issues.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX63 Posted March 2, 2015 at 03:28 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 03:28 PM Xwing, Feinstein just moved her checker piece. She isn't blaming the guns this time around. It is the "Terrorist Gun Loophole". Stop domestic rabble rousers like you and me from owning the guns and then by proxy "60 Cent" and "TDiddy" gang crime will also drop. Don't you get the new math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted March 2, 2015 at 05:52 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 05:52 PM Since the anti-gun crowd is always clamoring for new laws to restrict the sale and possession of guns, they obviously think that passing a law impacts criminal behavior. Maybe what they need to argue for is that when filling our the required Federal paperwork to buy a gun, the buyer should have to attest to an oath that promises not to use the gun for criminal purposes or to sell it to someone who will use it for criminal purposes. Problem solved. Those who think guns are the problem refuse to recognize that new restrictive laws only affect law abiding citizens, and that disarming law abiding citizens does nothing to reduce (it likely increases) gun related violent crime. And maybe, just maybe, Chicago's gun crime rate is higher than L.A. or NYC because despite the corruption and incompetence of the leadership in those cities, they pale when compared to doing things "the Chicago way". Maybe the one-party rule of Chicago inspires even street thugs to think that all that matters is taking what one wants and the laws be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted March 2, 2015 at 07:21 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 07:21 PM From the article: Apparently strict gun laws don’t mean squat when the counties and states around your city don’t have them. Sounds like we need more laws and everything will go away. Nevermind the idea of actually enforcing the existing laws. To the article's author - Drugs are bad hmmm kayyyyy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted March 2, 2015 at 09:39 PM Share Posted March 2, 2015 at 09:39 PM Alright, here are the facts... Aurora, IL. abandoned the Gun-Control agenda and instead focused on Felon's, Gang Members, and known trouble makers, their violent crime stat.s, fell like a rock. When the Police pursue Criminals and not objects... the Crime Rate diminishes as the number of Criminals committing the crimes are diminished. Chicago has the most Criminal Gang Members of any city in the nation, over 150,000 Criminal Gang Members, according top the FBI. Too many Criminals on the streets of Chicago...makes for a high crime rate! DAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G214me Posted March 3, 2015 at 03:46 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 03:46 AM Typical thumb sucking liberal " journalist ", no mention of the gang or drug problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted March 3, 2015 at 08:43 AM Share Posted March 3, 2015 at 08:43 AM Mason Johnson was born in Chicago and is a CBSChicago.com Web Content Producer. Graduating from Columbia College Chicago for Fiction Writing, Mason pens opinion articles and helps manage the “Best Of” content on CBS Chicago. Mason also manages the content for the classic hits radio station, 104.3 K-HITS. Per a Columbia alum, not only did the school give their students time off to attend the various "hands up, don't shoot" events but actually offered class credit if they attended. Here's a solution to the problem - start applying the felony murder rule to the aunties, cousins, GF's, babymamas and anyone else who don't have felonies and pass the BGC's who provide the guns to the dirt bags who are killing the kids in Chicago. Prove more than just a casual link and hello hard time. Bet the willingness to feel sorry for Hoodie D. Banger will evaporate once word got around that you were going to jail for any crime he committed with the gun you bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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