Jump to content


Photo

CCL self-defense shooting


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#1 Chicago_Shooter09

  • Members
  • 16 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 17

Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:40 PM

Im getting early word that a CCL holder shot and killed a would-be armed robber at the Target at 33rd and Damen right off the Stevenson Expressway. I dont any further detail but always remember to keep your head up and keep armed especially around this time of year when predators are out in force.

Edited by Chicago_Shooter09, 14 December 2017 - 09:40 PM.


#2 DomG

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,832 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 14

Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:47 PM

$ He wasn't an armed robber. He was good boy who was turning his life around and was on the honor roll this semester. $
"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges." - Tacitus"
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." -Tacitus

NRA Life Member
ISRA
USCCA
IL CCL
AZ CWP
VFW Life Member
USAF Retired (So I guess that makes me a Life Member)

#3 Patriots & Tyrants

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,143 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 11

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:04 PM

http://wgntv.com/2017/12/14/man-shot-and-killed-in-parking-lot-of-target-on-the-southwest-side/  



#4 Mr. Fife

    Nip it

  • Members
  • 3,408 posts
  • Joined: 03-July 10

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:16 PM

Good.
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
 
 

#5 rmart

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 994 posts
  • Joined: 14-August 13

Posted 14 December 2017 - 10:29 PM

Well, never good...

But, at least his 'victim' wasn't in the mortality stats. The bad guy earned his prize but it still isn't a good situation.


NRA Endowment Life Member

ISRA Member

Retired Firefighter/Paramedic

Father of two great kids and husband of one great wife

 

Civilization is not always advancing. The latest point in time is not necessarily the most enlightened. Society can regress. ~Dan Proft

 

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to buy cars... ~unknown

 

Right-wing action is the cleanup crew for left-wing fantasy ~Greg Gutfeld Nov 2015

 

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.

While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader." ~ Samuel Adams 1779 to James Warren

 

Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster

 

How much can you put in your signature before it becomes too long??

 


#6 kwc

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,311 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 13

Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:56 AM

Must be fake news. Shannon Watts says these things never happen.

http://www.guns.com/...with-gun-video/
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)

#7 Mr. Fife

    Nip it

  • Members
  • 3,408 posts
  • Joined: 03-July 10

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:11 AM

Tribune says CCL guy fled, was caught, and taken into custody.


http://www.chicagotr...1215-story.html
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
 
 

#8 bmurph44

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts
  • Joined: 06-December 17

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:34 AM

Seems like there may be more to the story.

 

Why would he leave unless he felt he was still in danger, did he immediately call the police as instructed in CCL class?



#9 Cerus

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,209 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 16

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:36 AM

Seems like there may be more to the story.
 
Why would he leave unless he felt he was still in danger, did he immediately call the police as instructed in CCL class?


Says he was returning. It was a struggle in his car. I can understand his instinct to take off fearing more bad guys were nearby.

#10 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:40 AM

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.

Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.



#11 Jeffrey

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,336 posts
  • Joined: 10-January 08

Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:24 AM

Saw this on the 9:00 news last night as it was still breaking.  The news girl couldn't have said enough times how there are cameras all over the parking lot.  I don't blame the shooter for fleeing.  These thieves hide out like cockroaches.  For all he knew, there might have been 3 more robbers all within range.  Lets see if they give any more info on this soon..


...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#12 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:45 AM

Saw this on the 9:00 news last night as it was still breaking.  The news girl couldn't have said enough times how there are cameras all over the parking lot.  I don't blame the shooter for fleeing.  These thieves hide out like cockroaches.  For all he knew, there might have been 3 more robbers all within range.  Lets see if they give any more info on this soon..

 

http://www.fox32chic...get-parking-lot

 

"A suspect was in custody after a man was shot to death Thursday night in a parking lot in the McKinley Park neighborhood on the South Side, police said." The key word is "suspect".

"The man was found suffering from gunshot wounds to the back and chest."

I would like to think this was a good shoot but in that neighborhood I'm thinking it was some gangbanger BS. 

Time will tell.



#13 stm

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,889 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 11

Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:28 AM

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#14 lockman

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,633 posts
  • Joined: 07-July 06

Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:13 AM

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

 

If there was a struggle, where you get shot may not be relevant.


"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1776

Life Member NRA, ISRA,  CCRKBA, GOA, & SAF


#15 stm

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,889 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 11

Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:44 AM


Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt


 
If there was a struggle, where you get shot may not be relevant.

Absolutely! However, on initial view, it doesn't look good without further explanation and investigation.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#16 gangrel

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,875 posts
  • Joined: 13-April 11

Posted 15 December 2017 - 12:43 PM

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

Read up on "falling through the plane of fire."  Guy was shot multiple times.  Perhaps one went through the back.  Not uncommon as the person getting shot is falling.  Let's not jump to conclusions.


NRA Life Member

NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

NRA Certified Instructor - Basic Pistol, PPIH, PPOH, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety
ISP Approved Firearm Concealed Carry Instructor

Utah CCW Instructor


#17 stm

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,889 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 11

Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:32 PM


Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt


Read up on "falling through the plane of fire."  Guy was shot multiple times.  Perhaps one went through the back.  Not uncommon as the person getting shot is falling.  Let's not jump to conclusions.

As I said, it's certainly within the realm of possibility, but will demand a closer examination to ensure they know what happened.

Edited by stm, 15 December 2017 - 01:33 PM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#18 Cerus

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,209 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 16

Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:51 PM

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.
Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.

Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.

  

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.

Edited by Cerus, 15 December 2017 - 03:52 PM.


#19 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:41 PM

 

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.
Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.

Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.

  

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.

 

 It was on the morning news at about 7:30AM.



#20 Cerus

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,209 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 16

Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:50 PM





According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.
Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.


Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.
  


Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.


 It was on the morning news at about 7:30AM.




Ahh ok. Was thinking it might have been TV news. I rarely watch live TV anymore.

Edited by Cerus, 15 December 2017 - 09:51 PM.


#21 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:18 AM

As of this morning he been released from custody. That's something to think about. If the DGU was 100% justified this guy spent over 30 hours in police custody getting grilled. The fact that he was released without bond is a good thing. The investigation is far from over, now we have to see what forensics says. Since there is only one man left living and given the area, IMO I think the CPD was and probably still is thinking this something like a drug deal gone bad. The "robber" parks his car in the same parking lot he is going to rob people in and the victim takes off after a legal DGU? Like I said time will tell but that Nissan is a treasure trove of forensic info but it is Chicago.

 

I am not saying these are my opinions, I would like to think it was a good SD shoot and the guy panicked. The CPD, not so much.

30 hours getting interrogated?

That will ruin a couple of your days.



#22 vito

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,606 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 04

Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:14 PM

I saw nothing on this in the Tribune today (12/16). I tend to think that this will be considered a good self defense shoot since the media is not going wild with major headlines about a licensed concealed carrier shooting someone illegally. If the shooter ends up being charged with a crime, I'm sure we will see the usual suspects claiming that this "proves" that ordinary, law abiding citizens should never have been allowed to legally carry a gun in Illinois. 


Retired U.S. Army

NRA Life Member

Fully retired!

Proud member of the Deplorables

Refined Hydrocarbon Recycler 


#23 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 16 December 2017 - 03:56 PM

That's MSM. If they find out that it was say a drug deal gone bad you'll read about In both the Sun Times and Trib for a week. If the police find nothing with forensics (and likely wont) then you wont hear another peep about it. I read an article this morning and actually am reminded I have to look up the new tax bill because of how badly the article was written.

 

You're right though, Joe Biden babbled that Stephen Willeford (the guy who stopped the church shooting in Texas from continuing into something worse) never should have owned an AR 15. if that shoot at Target was suspicious forensically then that will plastered in the papers for a week. Mary Mitchell harping "Black on Black crime is almost legal now with concealed carry."



#24 InterestedBystander

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,575 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:46 PM

http://www.chicagotr...1216-story.html

Concealed carry license holder released after he says he shot would-be robber

Chicago police have released a concealed carry license holder who told authorities he fatally shot a would-be robber near a South Side Target store earlier this week.

The 27-year-old man was taken into custody soon after the shooting about 8 p.m. Thursday in a parking lot in the 1900 block of West 33rd Street in the McKinley Park neighborhood.
...
A Chicago police spokesman on Saturday said the man was released by Area Central detectives without criminal charges, but did not say whether investigators believe the shooting was self-defense. The case and the investigation are not closed, the spokesman said. A representative with the Cook County state's attorney's office, which prosecutes felony cases, wasn't immediately available for comment

Edited by InterestedBystander, 16 December 2017 - 07:47 PM.

NRA Life Member
ISRA Member

#25 Patriots & Tyrants

    Member

  • Members
  • 4,143 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 11

Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:12 AM

http://wgntv.com/201...d-from-custody/

 

What the hey!!!

 

They keep calling the lawful carrier a "gunman" like he is the bad guy



#26 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:38 AM

http://wgntv.com/201...d-from-custody/

 

What the hey!!!

 

They keep calling the lawful carrier a "gunman" like he is the bad guy

 

Because in any shooting it is a criminal investigation. The CPD only has the facts that they were presented with. Regardless of the lawful carrier having a CCL for all intents and purposes this a criminal investigation until it is proven that the laws were followed. Like I have stated in earlier posts the police are not going to pat you on the back and say good job. You will treated as a criminal, questioned like a criminal and ultimately either vindicated or charged as a criminal. There is a dead guy and a very iffy story from the lawful carrier and forensics are going to clear him or bury him.

 

The belief with some CPD is this a drug deal gone wrong. The guy shot someone to death in his car, left the dead body in the parking lot, took off and had to be caught by the CPD. If the guy didn't have a CCL he would be sitting in Cook County Jail right now. The fact that he did have a CCL makes his story more plausible but some CPD that I know say this is dope deal gone wrong, the guy took off because he had to get rid of the dope and CCL or not they have many hours of this guys story on tape and his Toyota and video had better prove everything he said and says. They aren't done questioning him yet.

 

I am not making a judgment call here but simply stating what two CPDs have told me. They aren't buying this guys story and the investigation is just getting under way. There's the video from Target and the bank, the car, witnesses and the shooters story. If they can make a case they will, if not then it's a good shoot. A good example is did the guy have a receipt from the Target? What was on the receipt? If he never even went into the Target that puts serious doubt on his entire side of it. The detectives know what they are doing, they will give you just enough rope to hang yourself. They do this for a living.

 

If the same situation happened to you don't think for a second it doesn't plays out the same way. A self defense shooting is going to end up with you taking a trip to the PD in the back of the squad car. The police are there to investigate a shooting, nothing more. If you did every 100% right you are taking a ride and being questioned and then questioned some more. Even if the police shoot someone they get desk duty for a month until the shoot is cleared and it still goes on their record.

 

There are no good guys or bad guys when someone gets shot dead. There is a active investigation. If a cop shoots someone who has a gun they face almost the same scrutiny. You can 8 cops chasing a guy with a gun. The guy stops and fires. The 8 cops statements mean nothing because there are 50 people in the neighborhood who claim the suspect didn't even have a gun because somebody picked it up.

 

Basically throw the whole innocent until proven guilty thing out when it comes to a shooting, especially when there are inconsistencies in the story. It's an investigation right now. There are some big holes in this guys story. If it takes a month to clear a cop then figure at least that amount of time. The lawful carrier very well may be charged as the bad guy, the evidence has to be thoroughly examined. 

Right now it is a shooting and possible murder investigation not good guys vs. bad guys.

 

That all being written I will give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say its a good shoot unless it is proven otherwise. I'm not as cynical as the CPD but I don't have to see crazy stuff every day and hope that when I leave for work, I make it home.

I've been there and done that owning a pawnshop on the Westside and have seen a lot of absolutely crazy violent S***.

 

Time will tell.


Edited by Mick G, 17 December 2017 - 08:40 AM.


#27 vito

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,606 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 04

Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:58 AM

I certainly hope I am never in the position of wondering what to do after I have shot someone in self defense, but if it happened the FIRST phone call would be to my legal defense insurance company, THEN I would call 911. My third call would be to my wife to tell her that I would likely not be coming home very soon. I would tell the police that I acted out of fear for my own life or well being, that I was the victim, and that I would be more than glad to make a full statement after I had calmed down for a day or two and had a chance to consult with my attorney. I would state that I am willing to sign a complaint, and I would point out any witnesses or physical evidence in the vicinity. Then I would not answer questions or make any further statements. I know that when a stressful situation occurs, and this would certainly qualify as a highly stressful situation, the tendency is to want to explain everything to make the police see my side of it, but I hope I can maintain my composure and just limit myself to what I stated above. Everyone reading this thread should be reminded that the police are not looking to help the shooter, but are trying to determine if they have reason to arrest and charge the shooter, so anything you say might be used to help the police do just that and they are not obligated to use anything you say which might be helpful to you. Especially if they read you your Miranda rights you should realize that you are a suspect, not a witness, and be silent accordingly. I am not an attorney and I am not providing legal advice, but just stating what I have read and believe to be the best way to handle being in this type event. 


Retired U.S. Army

NRA Life Member

Fully retired!

Proud member of the Deplorables

Refined Hydrocarbon Recycler 


#28 bmurph44

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts
  • Joined: 06-December 17

Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:18 AM

I’m with Mick on this one, I suspected from the beginning this was a drug deal gone bad and he left to get rid of evidence, I hope I’m wrong.

Vito.....We were taught in CCL class to call police first, if the shooting is self defense you tell them what happened, if you don’t talk you’re for sure going to jail until they figure it out.

#29 vito

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,606 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 04

Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:20 AM

I think I would prefer to get the advice of a lawyer before saying much of anything to the police, other than what I stated in my earlier comment. I don't know that anything you say will help you, but I do know it sure can hurt you. Especially if you are upset, which is likely, you might well mis-remember some details, so when you re-tell your story for the 10th time you will have some discrepancies which well might be used against you. I think it better to wait for legal counsel, even if that means being locked up for a day while awaiting your lawyer. 


Retired U.S. Army

NRA Life Member

Fully retired!

Proud member of the Deplorables

Refined Hydrocarbon Recycler 


#30 Mick G

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 408 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:01 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=pCZXZMYyRl4

 

Call 911, tell them there has been a shooting and give the location and hang up. If you have time call your CCL insurance company but you will have plenty of time to do that when you are sitting in the back of the squad car. They will take your gun and usually let you keep your phone.

 

Massad Ayoob is not an idoit and I highly recommend that you watch ALL of his videos on YouTube when you have a chance.

If you have two hours this one is pretty good.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-j4PS_8R5IE






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users