gstrom99 Posted May 7, 2014 at 07:10 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 07:10 PM I can't imagine a great influx of applications, once "paper applications" are ready. July? How many people do you think are waiting for that? If so, why are you/they waiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:04 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:04 PM heck I bet the paper app is just a cleaned up bunch of screen shots so a flunky at the ISP can key it for you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:10 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:10 PM I can't imagine anyone waiting for paper applications. Almost everyone has a PC now-a-days, and even for those who don't they could always use a family members, or a friends, or one at a public library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:10 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:10 PM I just had a conversation about this yesterday. I personally think there will be more paper apps than electronic. The whole process from digital id, to scanning docs, to getting prints is enough to make a head spin. People are comfortable with paper and I think many more will apply once the forms come out. Remember that the majority of people are not technical and probably have no idea what java is, how to use a scanner and converting to pdf, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rat Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:28 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:28 PM I don't know anyone from my 9 year old nephew to my 75 year old mother that doesn't use a computer every single day and who can't update Java or scan forms. I think there will be a few people with tinfoil hats who will wait for paper so they don't have to get a digital ID for some reason, but I honestly don't think it's going to be many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:31 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:31 PM All paper apps will be mailed in tinfoil envelopes, for extra security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:41 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:41 PM I can't imagine anyone waiting for paper applications. Almost everyone has a PC now-a-days, and even for those who don't they could always use a family members, or a friends, or one at a public library. Sure almost everyone has a PC, that doesn't mean everyone uses them to their full capacity or even beyond the basics... Go to any gun store and asked them how many people come in asking for a FOID application (something you can print off in a jiffy at home) asked that same gun store how many people want the gun store to hold their hand while filling out the application and then want the gun store to mail it for them... Go to any gun show in IL and look at the booth of the guy charging $ to take your photo and hold your hand for the FOID app, he has been making beer money for decades doing this... People like paper in front of them and a hand holding them, this is a fact... At the end of the day there are still a lot of people that don't embrace the Internet and computers, this forum is but a VERY small percentage of IL gun owners, and it's reflective of how many simply don't care to participate online or do things online... People that are online get jinxed and believe it's the norm while there is still a large percentage of the population that hasn't embraced it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:49 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:49 PM True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:52 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:52 PM Just imagine how many members IC would have if a paper newsletter version of the forum were available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:54 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 08:54 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rat Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:32 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:32 PM I can't imagine anyone waiting for paper applications. Almost everyone has a PC now-a-days, and even for those who don't they could always use a family members, or a friends, or one at a public library. Sure almost everyone has a PC, that doesn't mean everyone uses them to their full capacity or even beyond the basics... Go to any gun store and asked them how many people come in asking for a FOID application (something you can print off in a jiffy at home) asked that same gun store how many people want the gun store to hold their hand while filling out the application and then want the gun store to mail it for them... Go to any gun show in IL and look at the booth of the guy charging $ to take your photo and hold your hand for the FOID app, he has been making beer money for decades doing this... People like paper in front of them and a hand holding them, this is a fact... At the end of the day there are still a lot of people that don't embrace the Internet and computers, this forum is but a VERY small percentage of IL gun owners, and it's reflective of how many simply don't care to participate online or do things online... People that are online get jinxed and believe it's the norm while there is still a large percentage of the population that hasn't embraced it... Yeah, you're right. It's easy to forget that someone's own circle isn't necessarily an accurate sample of potential applicants. It'll be interesting to see what the real numbers are in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cola490 Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:34 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:34 PM Has the ISP announced the date for the paper apps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec5 Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:45 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:45 PM The notice you are waiting for is waiting to be printed out on computer paper and they don't have any paper stock yet. They are also waiting for someone to type in the notice on a computer and that will take time to get the final draft on the computer to be edited to explain how to fill out the paper application. <end purple> Then when the paper form is recieved they will have to enter it on a computer just like you would have done if you had filled it out yourself. <not purple> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:49 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:49 PM I can't imagine anyone waiting for paper applications. Almost everyone has a PC now-a-days, and even for those who don't they could always use a family members, or a friends, or one at a public library. Sure almost everyone has a PC, that doesn't mean everyone uses them to their full capacity or even beyond the basics... You can say that again! I work with like 1000+ people...all are "computer literate" yet are sometimes baffled by the incredibly simple (too some). Also, a lot of people are going beyond PC's and are now in mobile. These mobile only folks will leverage the paper app too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:39 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:39 PM You can say that again! I work with like 1000+ people...all are "computer literate" yet are sometimes baffled by the incredibly simple (too some). Also, a lot of people are going beyond PC's and are now in mobile. These mobile only folks will leverage the paper app too. Yeah, come across many myself, you ask them are you computer literate and they reply "Yes absolutely I use one everyday at work" So you tell them to go the 'Control Panel' or a 'Command Prompt' or whatever and you are met with some silence followed by "In Word or Excel?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:02 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:02 PM I do apologize, I forgot how many people seem that they'd have problems finding the power button. I am in "I.T." but I don't often deal with "end users". Therefore I don't make it a habit to compare "end users" literacy to my own, if I were to do that anyone who didn't know how to properly install and configure postfix and dovecot, to use a MySQL (DB) backend, would be computer illiterate, for one example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:14 PM Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:14 PM I did/do find it funny that since in my 'circle' I'm that "go to guy" for anything computer/tech, and I haven't had a single request for assistance with the IL CCL application I guess that's also why I wasn't thinking I'd expect to see a sudden increase again when they make paper apps available, because everyone has that "go to guy" that could help them get it done before the paper applications are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKoncepts aka CGS Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:21 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:21 PM heck I bet the paper app is just a cleaned up bunch of screen shots so a flunky at the ISP can key it for you ...I think that is how the process will work actually. I don't know but I read somewhere that you will call the ISP, they will key in a bunch of info and send you a nearly completed app for you to sign and send back. I think someone said that is how it'll work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elderberry Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:29 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:29 PM I just had a conversation about this yesterday. I personally think there will be more paper apps than electronic. The whole process from digital id, to scanning docs, to getting prints is enough to make a head spin. People are comfortable with paper and I think many more will apply once the forms come out. Remember that the majority of people are not technical and probably have no idea what java is, how to use a scanner and converting to pdf, etc, etc. I don't know anyone from my 9 year old nephew to my 75 year old mother that doesn't use a computer every single day and who can't update Java or scan forms. I think there will be a few people with tinfoil hats who will wait for paper so they don't have to get a digital ID for some reason, but I honestly don't think it's going to be many. I'm with Moon... I know half a dozen folks who had to be coached through the process. And these are not kindergarten dropouts -- one of them has his Phd in one of the biology disciplines but he said he would have had to wait for paper since he has no interest in computers (or cell phones) and barely does e-mail... I'm bettin' there are a lot of folks out there like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:37 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 02:37 PM There were a number of people who posted here around early January who seem barely able to.do email/internet, let alone the CCL app. Tbese folls said they didn't even have a digital camera or know someone who could take a pic for.them. I bet there will be a.small surge of apps once the paper ones are available. But people will have to have someone printout the app for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:11 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:11 PM Lets just hope we don't have an entire new round of appeals due to the Paper Application Review Board http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=48776&do=findComment&comment=743345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:35 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:35 PM At least 4 of the 21 attendees at my IL CCW class paid the store staff the $20 fee to e-file their applications. None had home PCs nor the desire to learn to use one at the local library. Heck one guy was stunned to learn from me over lunch that the class was not all he had to do to get the permit. He was NOT aware that he also had to apply and pay the State of Illinois $153. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSerious Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:36 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:36 PM I know in my class and others who have recently taken the class we had to help them input their info because they were, lets say, computer challanged. Just look at how many instructors who have posted they inputted the info for their students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSerious Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:40 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 03:40 PM I'm sure that it will look alot like the foid app. They will just scan it in and the info will be auto fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstrom99 Posted May 8, 2014 at 04:03 PM Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 04:03 PM There were a number of people who posted here around early January who seem barely able to.do email/internet, let alone the CCL app. Tbese folls said they didn't even have a digital camera or know someone who could take a pic for.them. Thats true. I kinda forgot about "those people". I too often get the "Can you help me with this?..." from my co-workers who "use" these things every day. They remind me of people who drive and don't know how to even check the oil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie Posted May 8, 2014 at 04:55 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 04:55 PM At least 4 of the 21 attendees at my IL CCW class paid the store staff the $20 fee to e-file their applications. None had home PCs nor the desire to learn to use one at the local library. Heck one guy was stunned to learn from me over lunch that the class was not all he had to do to get the permit. He was NOT aware that he also had to apply and pay the State of Illinois $153.The guy wasn't.aware he had to apply for a.CCL? I'm.sorry, but did he go about with head in the sand? Sheesh...I think that guy takes the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa Posted May 8, 2014 at 05:11 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 05:11 PM Then there are people like me who couldn't get their application past the 3rd. page because of their computer. Even after following each and every piece of advice from the wonderful folks here , it wouldn't advance. I had to take it to a friends house to be completed. I also didn't own a scanner so I couldn't scan and submit my certificate or a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hceuterpe Posted May 8, 2014 at 09:42 PM Share Posted May 8, 2014 at 09:42 PM The problem with the online application is the use of Java in the first place. Forcing users to run a applet and install the Java plugin is an awful example of security, since it is arguably the most vulnerable and risky browser component there is on the client side way worse than Flash ever was. It's also the most finicky component I can think varying between newer versions. Such as the app is completely broken with Java 8 (which Oracle pushes you to install and hides v.7 pretty well). Also it broke when 7u51 came out which drastically changed security behavior. This is why they said to drop the security to medium, because despite the terrible use of Java applets they didn't deploy properly in a secure way. When you have to tweak security settings in a browser component that's a sure sign what you using is not secure. They basically hired a dink that's been stuck in a bubble since the 90's. I can't wait to gut the plugin once my permit arrives and I don't have to think about for 5 years. The online app isn't difficult just difficult because it's online, but because they wrote it in about the worst way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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