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What is the point of gun laws when the Police don't enforce them?


CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER

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What is the point of gun laws when the Police don't enforce them? Referring to the Aurora shooting case the perpetrator had a revoked FOID card but no Police agency had enforced the law and retrieved the convicted felon's guns. The death of all these innocent people could be blamed on Police incompetence.

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Well, the cynic in me would say non-enforcement was the plan all along. Because if gun laws worked in reducing violence, why would we need polticians? Why would we need more and more gun laws??

 

I'm at the point in my life were I can clearly see we have far too many laws of all kinds and on any given day, 90% of Americans unknowingly commit a misdemeanor or felony. If the FBI decided to investigate any citizen, they could find that you've done something illegal.

 

Freedom is dead. Holding on to our guns is the very last hurrah. Look what's happening in unarmed England. A woman was arrested and detained for hours for calling a trans woman a man on Twitter. We are headed there, folks...once the guns are gone.

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And how are they supposed to retrieve his firearm without violating the 4th? They would first have to show enough cause to obtain a search warrant in order to enter his residence and look for it. Good luck. Simply having a FOID at one point isn't enough, having a possible purchase isn't enough, police would have to access the actual purchase record, at a bare minimum, for which they would need a warrant to force the FFL to produce sales records.

All this shooting shows is that there is NO law that is going to force everyone to behave well. We either accept that bad people are going to do bad things OR we continue to further limit the law abiding in a futile attempt to stop people from doing things that they have been doing since before historical records exist.

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I'm not really for any SWAT dressed up gestapo goons coming to my home to steal my property, and I am pretty sure they wouldn't want to either. Perhaps if they came peacefully with a court order, and explanation, I would be a little more okay with it. But, those guns would be long gone before that had that opportunity.

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And how are they supposed to retrieve his firearm without violating the 4th? They would first have to show enough cause to obtain a search warrant in order to enter his residence and look for it. Good luck. Simply having a FOID at one point isn't enough, having a possible purchase isn't enough, police would have to access the actual purchase record, at a bare minimum, for which they would need a warrant to force the FFL to produce sales records.

All this shooting shows is that there is NO law that is going to force everyone to behave well. We either accept that bad people are going to do bad things OR we continue to further limit the law abiding in a futile attempt to stop people from doing things that they have been doing since before historical records exist.

 

Very simple police investigation could have been done and not violated his 4th Amendment rights. A CONVICTED FELON had a FOID. That should have been followed up with a FOID system check on who/when a FOID check was done for a gun purchase and/or NICS check was run on this guy would have turned up the FFL who ran it. A visit by the police or ATF to the FFL would have turned up his 4473. Obviously, he lied on the 4473 as to never have been convicted of a felony (and on his FOID application). Now they have proof he committed ANOTHER felony when he lied and they know exactly what kind of gun he possesses. Any judge would issue a search warrant. Also of note: the ISP has already said that Gary Martin did not turn in the legally required paperwork showing the disposition of any guns he owned when his FOID was revoked. This guy was the poster boy for “probable cause” in getting a search warrant. He should have been arrested just for lying on his FOID application and 4473. But NOTHING was done and 5 innocent people are now dead. And guess what. The brilliant Illinois legislature will make MORE gun laws that will only infringe in the rights of law abiding citizens.

 

The one good lesson I learned from all of this is that when the Illinois legislature bans certain types of guns or accessories, they have neither the funding, manpower or know how to confiscate those guns from those who will oppose their unconstitutional laws.

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What is the point of gun laws when the Police don't enforce them? Referring to the Aurora shooting case the perpetrator had a revoked FOID card but no Police agency had enforced the law and retrieved the convicted felon's guns. The death of all these innocent people could be blamed on Police incompetence.

 

 

No, it cannot. The sole responsibility is with the man who pulled the trigger and the employer who banned self-defense on the property without providing armed security.

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Seems to me that business owners would realistically need to provide 1:1 armed security for everyone in the building due to the fact that, by restricting law abiding firearms owners the right to conceal carry, they deprive everyone in the building of their own personal means of self defense. Seems that taking down the signs would be drastically more effective at lowering their liability.......
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Other states get it right in one try (pre-purchase background check).

 

Took Illinois THREE tries (FOID check, pre-purchase background check, and CCW check) to get it right.

 

Illinois’ system is clearly broken.

 

And Illinois’ answer will likely be to add additional steps to the already broken system.

 

Here’s an idea, S.errr — toilet can the broken system(s) and adopt one that actually works from a neighboring state!

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Other states get it right in one try (pre-purchase background check). Took Illinois THREE tries (FOID check, pre-purchase background check, and CCW check) to get it right. Illinois’ system is clearly broken. And Illinois’ answer will likely be to add additional steps to the already broken system. Here’s an idea, S.errr — toilet can the broken system(s) and adopt one that actually works from a neighboring state!

 

Yeah... Like Tennessee?

The mentally disturbed Waffle House killer from Illinois was completely legal in TN, even though Illinois revoked his FOID.

 

I don't wanna say what I think it's gonna come to...

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What is the point of gun laws when the Police don't enforce them? Referring to the Aurora shooting case the perpetrator had a revoked FOID card but no Police agency had enforced the law and retrieved the convicted felon's guns. The death of all these innocent people could be blamed on Police incompetence.

 

 

No, it cannot. The sole responsibility is with the man who pulled the trigger and the employer who banned self-defense on the property without providing armed security.

 

You just described 99% of employers nationwide. I worked for General Electric and they like to fence off their properties and have a guard shack that controls who gets in. They have a strict "no guns allowed" corporate policy that is company-wide, but none of their guards are armed. They used to be armed (decades ago) if they were producing goods to fill military contracts or building weapons parts like GE used too do..

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Imho, this is a picture perfect case for the Pro-Gun Lobby to attack the GFZ Posting - to set an example of the legal implications and liabilities of prohibiting folks from legally protecting themselves in these exact types of situations, and infringing on peoples 2A rights.

 

We should be in contact with the families of the victims already.

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Other states get it right in one try (pre-purchase background check). Took Illinois THREE tries (FOID check, pre-purchase background check, and CCW check) to get it right. Illinois’ system is clearly broken. And Illinois’ answer will likely be to add additional steps to the already broken system. Here’s an idea, S.errr — toilet can the broken system(s) and adopt one that actually works from a neighboring state!

That's because Mississippi (IIRC?) didn't report his conviction to the national database like they were supposed to, so it only came up when they ran his fingerprints for the CCW permit. Antis were already making a buzz about requiring fingerprints for a FOID and all CCW permits within minutes of that new breaking

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These laws give the tools needed to those in power to put you and others like you in jail should you become too annoying or obstructive. You always have to remind yourself that so-called gun control is really not about guns, it is about control. Hundreds of thousands of "illegal" applications to purchase a firearm are made each year. Each one of these is a Federal felony, yet virtually none of them are ever used to actually prosecute the person attempting to illegally purchase a gun. But the law effectively puts you, and everyone else that buys a gun, on a leash just ready to be yanked when the time comes.

 

In part, the lack of enforcement is a good reason to oppose all new gun laws, even those that on the surface seem "reasonable". The ultimate goal of the gun haters is the total and permanent disarmament of the citizenry. Any and all concessions on gun rights is just another step closer to the real goal. So the only policy that makes sense for those that believe in and support the right to keep and bear arms is to resist in every way possible any further, and current infringements on our rights.

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Hundreds of thousands of "illegal" applications to purchase a firearm are made each year. Each one of these is a Federal felony, yet virtually none of them are ever used to actually prosecute the person attempting to illegally purchase a gun. But the law effectively puts you, and everyone else that buys a gun, on a leash just ready to be yanked when the time comes.

 

In March of 97, Sarah Brady reported “dramatic new evidence” that the Brady Bill thwarted 186,000 illegal firearm sales, MOSTLY because “the buyer had been convicted or indicted for a felony.”

On May 13, 1999, Janet Reno said, “Since the passage of the Brady Law, over a quarter of a million felons, fugitives and other people who should not have guns have been stopped from buying them.

As of 5/27/99, the Justice Department had prosecuted one (1) person under the Brady Bill.

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All this shooting shows is that there is NO law that is going to force everyone to behave well. We either accept that bad people are going to do bad things OR we continue to further limit the law abiding in a futile attempt to stop people from doing things that they have been doing since before historical records exist.

And that is pretty much it, in a nutshell.

 

Let's say, the LEOs had reacted, the minute his FOID was revoked (which btw, could be because he filed for renewal late, or the system was slow issuing renewal (hmm, perhaps the reason for revocation should be transmitted to LE, so that LE can prioritize. Moved out of state, ignore, convicted of assault, take care of it after time period to turn in by person, renewal issues, maybe just watch situation from afar....). THis guy was heck bent on revenge at his wiork place. He would have either, bought a gun illegally, stolen a gun, made a bomb or bombs, used a car to mow them down at shift change, etc. For heck sake, just going in wielding a razor sharp sword, he'd have taken lives.

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What is the point of gun laws when the Police don't enforce them? Referring to the Aurora shooting case the perpetrator had a revoked FOID card but no Police agency had enforced the law and retrieved the convicted felon's guns. The death of all these innocent people could be blamed on Police incompetence.

 

 

No, it cannot. The sole responsibility is with the man who pulled the trigger and the employer who banned self-defense on the property without providing armed security.

 

You just described 99% of employers nationwide. I worked for General Electric and they like to fence off their properties and have a guard shack that controls who gets in. They have a strict "no guns allowed" corporate policy that is company-wide, but none of their guards are armed. They used to be armed (decades ago) if they were producing goods to fill military contracts or building weapons parts like GE used too do..

 

Even if they were armed, it doesn't help as much against an employee that goes bad. Other armed employees would though.

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