Bubbacs Posted January 24, 2020 at 05:50 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 05:50 PM Also if you ask 6 different lawyers about this you will get 12 different opinions so what we need is a law suit to establish a court decision precedentSo explain to me exactly why you started this topic and why you find the need to argue about the legitimate answers you have received? You were given the proper answers yet you refuse to believe what you were told. And on the topic of illegal immigrants, you got that one wrong too. Illegal immigrants are not legal in Illinois, they are still in violation of Federal law and still illegal no matter where they live in this country. The Federal agency ICE is totally justified in arresting them as it is again a Federal violation anywhere in the US. And after stating that Illinois Police don't cooperate shows that your legal knowledge is very lacking. You really need to brush on the differences between Federal and State law and the differences between them. Being a Libertarian as you say, you are allowed to have your views and beliefs but unless you are in a position to influence and/or change the laws, you still need to abide by them.Another one who gets itI’m always thinking I can’t be the only oneAnd every post is the same structure......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 24, 2020 at 07:36 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 07:36 PM No actually I'm a civil libertarian and I believe it is a civil rights violation to deny someone their gun rights for partaking in a legal activityIt's not a legal activity. Regardless of whether Illinois has removed criminal penalties, and in fact have established some regulatory burdens, it remains unlawful under Federal law and regulation. States don't get to un-do Federal laws. Also if you ask 6 different lawyers about this you will get 12 different opinions so what we need is a law suit to establish a court decision precedentAll of this has already been dealt with in other courts around the country. Illinois is not the first state to become a cannabis sanctuary state. Long and short is that if you want to exercise your firearms rights, don't violate federal drug prohibitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Here is what the form says regarding unlawful narcotics. "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside." The question is who is an unlawful user? If you tried pot in high school are you an unlawful user? If you quit 6 months ago are you an unlawful user? If you quit yesterday the day before you filled out the form are you an unlawful user or an ex unlawful user? Does the Federal government have the authority to ban someone's gun right for doing a legal activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS1 Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:12 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:12 PM Does the Federal government have the authority to ban someone's gun right for doing a legal activity?It is not a legal activity under Federal law. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:14 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:14 PM How long are we going to beat this dead horse. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:30 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 10:30 PM How long are we going to beat this dead horse. SMH Until it comes back to life. This is the Internet. If the universe fails to comply with your expectations, make a post about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:13 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:13 PM If you recreationally smoke dope IMHO you ARE a dope - a dope who would in FACT be committing perjury on the FEDERAL 4473 form if they denied using said Federally illegal substance. CRIKEY! What is so difficult to understand folks? Wuzzup? Smokin' too much wacky weed to focus? lolGee I havent used pot in over 25 years, will I still perjure myself on 4473? How about 10?, 5?, 1? Or 3 weeks? Once a user always a user? So many questions. Btw the above is hypothetical. ^ this ***Some quick googling says drug use falls under thishttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3282 If you havent gotten caught for a drug crime 5 years back youre good, statute of limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:25 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:25 PM Ring around the rosie pocket full of posies ashes ! ashes ! we all fall down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:28 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:28 PM How long are we going to beat this dead horse. SMHWay too long apparently...I'm almost kind of looking forward to the ILGA session return next week and the flood of anti 2A bills and shell bills replacing "the" with "the"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:47 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 11:47 PM At least I made it IN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 25, 2020 at 01:15 AM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 01:15 AM At least I made it IN!Yes you barely made it in (Me> B4)But you didn’t make the second thread about the same subject! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted January 25, 2020 at 01:24 AM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 01:24 AM Neither did youuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted January 25, 2020 at 02:03 AM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 02:03 AM Post 43! I WIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:00 AM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:00 AM Neither did youuuu YesShe was quick.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 25, 2020 at 03:47 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 03:47 PM Intelligent questions are not allowed here. It really upsets all the simple people who cling to their Bibles and alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted January 25, 2020 at 03:52 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 03:52 PM Intelligent questions are not allowed here. It really upsets all the simple people who cling to their Bibles and alcohol.That's a rather inflammatory statement, my friend. You ask questions, people answer, and you don't like their answer. Most times, when you ask a question, it seems like you already have an answer and you're waiting for someone to come along and agree with it. Asking a question in an open forum leaves you open for all kinds of answers, that should be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 25, 2020 at 04:20 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 04:20 PM The reason I post is to start an intelligent discussion about many of the gray areas in our gun laws. Much of the terminology in the code is not adequately defined. I've heard many contradictory statements from many people regarding cannabis use and gun ownership. Even WGN news did a report on this. I'm currently of the opinion that using recreational cannabis does not make you an unlawful user of narcotics if it is legal in your state so I think that answering no to being an unlawful user of narcotics on the form would be legal. because it is legal in your place of residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:02 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:02 PM The reason I post is to start an intelligent discussion about many of the gray areas in our gun laws. Much of the terminology in the code is not adequately defined. I've heard many contradictory statements from many people regarding cannabis use and gun ownership. Even WGN news did a report on this. I'm currently of the opinion that using recreational cannabis does not make you an unlawful user of narcotics if it is legal in your state so I think that answering no to being an unlawful user of narcotics on the form would be legal. because it is legal in your place of residence. But you are not signing a state form, it is a federal form and says right on it that federal does not recognize state marijuana law. Do what you wish, it's your risk and no one else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:05 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:05 PM Here is what the form says regarding unlawful narcotics. "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside." The question is who is an unlawful user? If you tried pot in high school are you an unlawful user? If you quit 6 months ago are you an unlawful user? If you quit yesterday the day before you filled out the form are you an unlawful user or an ex unlawful user? Does the Federal government have the authority to ban someone's gun right for doing a legal activity? Do you even READ your own posts? How much more clear can it be? If you use it, at the present time, you are an unlawful user. If you don't use it you are not. You still try to rationalize the law until you get someone to agree with you. As Molly stated, this is a Federal Form! The statement on the Federal Form is about as clear as it can be. Please don't buy a gun if you use MJ. Apparently you refuse to accept the Federal law as it is stated, so you probably won't accept the rules of firearm use either. Keep the rest of us safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinkermostly Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:20 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:20 PM In Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:26 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:26 PM Let's try to stay on subject and avoid personal attacks. Inferring that others lack intellect, mocking their religious beliefs, or inferring that since they do not accept certain laws they would be reckless with a firearm does nothing for the discussion. I do not want to start a debate on proper conduct here. Many of us have stepped over the line at some point on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:54 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 05:54 PM Let's try to stay on subject and avoid personal attacks. Inferring that others lack intellect, mocking their religious beliefs, or inferring that since they do not accept certain laws they would be reckless with a firearm does nothing for the discussion. I do not want to start a debate on proper conduct here. Many of us have stepped over the line at some point on this site.Frustration sometimes wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 25, 2020 at 09:18 PM Share Posted January 25, 2020 at 09:18 PM I'm currently of the opinion that using recreational cannabis does not make you an unlawful user of narcotics if it is legal in your stateHypothetical questions for you. If you have a C&R license in Illinois, can you build (or buy) an SBR, without going through that whole ATF NFA process? If not, why? The state legalized SBR's, doesn't that mean you get to ignore the federal laws? If you live in Indiana, can you buy a silencer without going through the federal process? Silencers are legal in Indiana. The feds are choosing to not pursue drug prosecutions against private citizens in the cannibis sanctuary states. That doesn't make it lawful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 26, 2020 at 04:25 AM Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 04:25 AM The reason I post is to start an intelligent discussion about many of the gray areas in our gun laws. Much of the terminology in the code is not adequately defined. I've heard many contradictory statements from many people regarding cannabis use and gun ownership. Even WGN news did a report on this. I'm currently of the opinion that using recreational cannabis does not make you an unlawful user of narcotics if it is legal in your state so I think that answering no to being an unlawful user of narcotics on the form would be legal. because it is legal in your place of residence. But you are not signing a state form, it is a federal form and says right on it that federal does not recognize state marijuana law. Do what you wish, it's your risk and no one else's.Yes it is a Federal form but the does the Federal government have jurisdiction over a State? That is the gray area. In contrast Illinois does not recognize Federal law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 26, 2020 at 02:37 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 02:37 PM I'm currently of the opinion that using recreational cannabis does not make you an unlawful user of narcotics if it is legal in your state Hypothetical questions for you. If you have a C&R license in Illinois, can you build (or buy) an SBR, without going through that whole ATF NFA process? If not, why? The state legalized SBR's, doesn't that mean you get to ignore the federal laws? If you live in Indiana, can you buy a silencer without going through the federal process? Silencers are legal in Indiana. The feds are choosing to not pursue drug prosecutions against private citizens in the cannibis sanctuary states. That doesn't make it lawful. You would be challenging federal law. It needs to be done, the feds have many laws that are in conflict with their limited powers. One such example is using the commerce clause to infringe on the right to bear arms just because the gun may cross state lines. ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 26, 2020 at 02:52 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 02:52 PM To the OP.... Okey Dokes - I yield to your arguments. I strongly suggest you begin (or continue?) use of marijuana and then purchase a firearm. I give you my 100% personal guarantee that it is OK for only YOU to lie on the Federal 4473 form. Should you ever get caught in that act of perjury, just tell the Feds that RandyP on the internet gave you permission....and you'll be just fine. I garrontee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 26, 2020 at 09:53 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 09:53 PM To the OP.... Okey Dokes - I yield to your arguments. I strongly suggest you begin (or continue?) use of marijuana and then purchase a firearm. I give you my 100% personal guarantee that it is OK for only YOU to lie on the Federal 4473 form. Should you ever get caught in that act of perjury, just tell the Feds that RandyP on the internet gave you permission....and you'll be just fine. I garrontee!For the emphasis to be correct, the RON needs to be all caps....... Garr-RON-tee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cola490 Posted January 26, 2020 at 10:53 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 10:53 PM So, as far as this federal vs state thing goes, do you answer differently if asked by a FBI agent or a Illinois stare trooper? Just asking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 26, 2020 at 11:21 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 11:21 PM To the OP.... Okey Dokes - I yield to your arguments. I strongly suggest you begin (or continue?) use of marijuana and then purchase a firearm. I give you my 100% personal guarantee that it is OK for only YOU to lie on the Federal 4473 form. Should you ever get caught in that act of perjury, just tell the Feds that RandyP on the internet gave you permission....and you'll be just fine. I garrontee! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted January 26, 2020 at 11:29 PM Share Posted January 26, 2020 at 11:29 PM Intelligent questions are not allowed here. It really upsets all the simple people who cling to their Bibles and alcohol.You just don't like the answers and assert that the answers are wrong, because you seem to want things to be different than the way they are. You also act as those these are novel issues. They are not. California enacted a "medical marijuana" state system in 1996, many other states have since then. All these issues have already been dealt with through the court systems. It's irrelevant whether you or any of us here feel that it shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is. So far, all combinations of political parties in the federal legislative and executive have refused to take action on changing the federal prohibition on cannabis creating a bizarre legal environment which almost seems designed to entrap unwitting citizens. There is a lot wrong with the current status quo on many levels, but it's not wrong to point out some of the unfortunate realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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