129 replies to this topic

[GarandFan]

From Washington Times:

Following the House approval, Republicans in the Senate are likely to try to force a vote on the bill in the Senate later this year. Senate Democratic leadership aides said there are no plans to bring up the legislation as a stand-alone measure, citing the crowded legislative agenda.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) is a gun-ownership advocate, but because of opposition of many Democratic lawmakers, he would be unlikely to bring the bill to the floor himself. Instead, Republicans could use a coming debate on legislation that sets the defense spending budget to try to pass the measure.

A similar tactic in 2009 came within two votes of attaching the conceal and carry legislation to that year's defens- spending bill. GOP aides said this approach could be taken again but said no final decisions had yet been made.

http://online.wsj.co...=googlenews_wsj

[gravyboy77]

This puts Reid and a whole bunch of red state Democrats in a pickle. The House passed this with more than 40 Democrats voting yes so it's clearly bipartisan, so will the senate Democrats play games with this knowing that there is an election next year? Plus the NRA supports Reid and he is supposedly "Pro-Gun".....also, the last thing that i think that Obama wants is a highly charged issue like the second amendment related issue gumming up his fairytale "Move to the Center" in his bid for a second term. With F&F, Solyndra and an Obozocare ruling coming a few months before the next election i highly doubt that he would threaten a veto over this.....especially when he is already viewed as anti-gun.

I'm guessing that the Senate Republicans will attach this to a must pass bill then dare the Democrats to ditch it, kinda like what the Democrats did attaching the veterans portion of Obama's porkulous II to the bipartisan Government contractor bill that just passed a few weeks ago. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[pyre400]

gravyboy77, on 17 November 2011 - 07:37 AM, said:

This puts Reid and a whole bunch of red state Democrats in a pickle. The House passed this with more than 40 Democrats voting yes so it's clearly bipartisan, so will the senate Democrats play games with this knowing that there is an election next year? Plus the NRA supports Reid and he is supposedly "Pro-Gun".....

Yes, well put, this is definitely a "telltail"

[Ranger]

All:  I know many of us here have gotten into discussions regarding politics and there have even been some disagreements among some members.  I also know that many of us have a negative opinion of Durbin.  But belercous's post is just one of the excellent examples of us all working together for the common cause.  Our common thread here is that we are united in support of 2nd amendment causes.  We will be more successful if we work together to accomplish our goals.  The chance of influencing Durbin are slim; but the chances of another Democrat being able to influence him are much better than someone not of his party.

"belercous:  ...I'm going to write Durbin's office now to express my support,"

[GarandFan]

Ranger, on 17 November 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

All:  I know many of us here have gotten into discussions regarding politics and there have even been some disagreements among some members.  I also know that many of us have a negative opinion of Durbin.  But belercous's post is just one of the excellent examples of us all working together for the common cause.  Our common thread here is that we are united in support of 2nd amendment causes.  We will be more successful if we work together to accomplish our goals.  The chance of influencing Durbin are slim; but the chances of another Democrat being able to influence him are much better than someone not of his party.

"belercous:  ...I'm going to write Durbin's office now to express my support,"

Good post.

[101abn]

“National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012”
introduced in U.S. Senate



Today, March 13, U.S. Senators Mark Begich (D-Alaska) and Joe Manchin (D-West Virginia) introduced S. 2188, the “National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012.”  The bill is the Senate companion to H. R. 822, which was approved by the U. S. House last November by a vote of 272-154.


S. 2188, like H.R. 822, would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed firearm permit to carry a concealed handgun in any other state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms for lawful purposes. A state's laws governing where concealed handguns may be carried would apply within its borders.


Today 49 states either issue carry permits or otherwise authorize law-abiding people to carry firearms outside the home for self-defense. 41 states have fair “shall issue” permit systems that allow any law-abiding person to get a permit.


In contrast to dire predictions from anti-gun groups, Right-to-Carry laws have been enormously successful.  Interstate reciprocity will serve as a fundamental protection of the right to self-defense by providing people with the ability to protect themselves not only in their home states, but anywhere they travel where carry concealed carry is legal.


Contrary to the false claims of some, these bills would not create federal gun registration or gun owner licensing, nor would they allow any federal agency to establish a federal standard for a carry permit or impose gun control restrictions of any kind.


These bills would have no effect on permitless carry laws, currently on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming and Vermont, that allow concealed carry without a permit. In addition, Vermont residents would be able to take advantage of S. 2188 and H.R. 822 by obtaining a permit from one of the many states that offer non-resident permits.

[Davey]

Is someone filling in for Mark Kirk while he is recovering from his stroke?

[Buzzard]

Davey, on 14 March 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Is someone filling in for Mark Kirk while he is recovering from his stroke?

Good question! One of our Constitutional scholars will have to answer that one. But, if you're worried that Illinois is missing out on the party - we'd still be unable to carry if this were to pass in the Senate and President Barack Obama signed it into law.

[colt-45]

Buzzard, on 14 March 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

Davey, on 14 March 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

Is someone filling in for Mark Kirk while he is recovering from his stroke?

Good question! One of our Constitutional scholars will have to answer that one. But, if you're worried that Illinois is missing out on the party - we'd still be unable to carry if this were to pass in the Senate and President Barack Obama signed it into law.

but if we had a non- resident permit we can carry in 49 other states......right?

[Xwing]

colt-45, on 14 March 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

but if we had a non- resident permit we can carry in 49 other states......right?

Yes.  This would be a great bill.  It would require reciprocity in 49 states.  (Although I imagine Hawaii would quickly take their laws off the books that allowed CCW, and I would think N.Y, MD and CA may try to as well.)  

I don't think it will matter though.  If it passes the Senate (which will be difficult IMO), Obama will veto it.  I doubt it can get 2/3 in both houses.

[Drylok]

Xwing, on 14 March 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

colt-45, on 14 March 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

but if we had a non- resident permit we can carry in 49 other states......right?

Yes.  This would be a great bill.  It would require reciprocity in 49 states.  (Although I imagine Hawaii would quickly take their laws off the books that allowed CCW, and I would think N.Y, MD and CA may try to as well.)  

I don't think it will matter though.  If it passes the Senate (which will be difficult IMO), Obama will veto it.  I doubt it can get 2/3 in both houses.

Eh, I don't know, he signed to other carry laws early in his presidency. Granted they were hooked onto other legislation but.....

[Lou]

The strategy is to attach it to a must-pass bill as an amendment that he would not dare veto.  
That happened I think 2 or 3 years ago and it got 58 of the needed 60 votes to attach it as an amendment to a must-pass defense bill.  Since then we made enough gains in the Senate to get the 60 votes.

[Xwing]

Lou, on 14 March 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

The strategy is to attach it to a must-pass bill as an amendment that he would not dare veto.  
That happened I think 2 or 3 years ago and it got 58 of the needed 60 votes to attach it as an amendment to a must-pass defense bill.  Since then we made enough gains in the Senate to get the 60 votes.

That would be awesome if possible!

[Federal Farmer]

I heard that they will run it as a stand-alone bill to force Obama to veto it to use in the election.

[snubjob]

Federal Farmer, on 14 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I heard that they will run it as a stand-alone bill to force Obama to veto it to use in the election.

That makes sense. A way to show how he truly stands on the issue. As long as it can be attached to another bill later that he can't say no to, it might be good strategy.

[vstar]

From our illustrious senator.....

Thank you for your message about gun control. I appreciate knowing your views on this important issue.
 
Americans are entitled to own and use guns in a responsible fashion. Strong penalties for violent crimes involving firearms should be part of any effort to reduce gun violence. I have consistently supported tough crime control and prevention initiatives since coming to Congress.
 
Enforcing our nation’s existing gun control laws must remain a high priority. I support efforts that address illegal possession and use of firearms. Common sense restrictions such as the Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Ban are supported by law enforcement officials who must patrol our streets. These laws help protect people from crime and violence without infringing on legitimate hunting and sporting uses of firearms.
 
I will continue to support efforts that help ensure our nation’s gun laws are vigorously enforced. Thank you once again for contacting me.
 
Please feel free to stay in touch.
Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator
 
RJD/bm
 

[Razor]

March 14, 2012   Mr. Leonard Cz. Hanover Park, IL 60133-6162 Dear Mr. Cz:  Thank you for contacting me about national laws regarding the carrying of a concealed weapon, or “concealed carry” laws. I appreciate hearing from you.  Over the past several years, a number of states have enacted laws permitting individuals to carry concealed weapons. These new state laws have generated a great deal of interest and controversy within Congress and among the public.  Many law enforcement organizations and agencies have expressed concern about the widespread adoption of concealed carry laws. The challenge for me and other lawmakers is how to address constructively the issue of violent crime while striking a proper balance between public safety and individual rights. In February 2011, Representative Cliff Stearns of Florida introduced National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011, H.R. 822. This bill would amend the federal criminal code to allow a person carrying government-issued photo identification and a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm in one state to carry a concealed handgun in another state in accordance with the restrictions of that state, as long as he or she is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm under federal law. H.R. 822 passed the House of Representatives in November 2011.  I will keep your concerns in mind if this bill is considered by the Senate. Thank you again for contacting me.Sincerely,Richard J. DurbinUnited States Senator RJD/vy

[colt-45]

Razor, on 14 March 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

March 14, 2012 Mr. Leonard Cz. Hanover Park, IL 60133-6162 Dear Mr. Cz: Thank you for contacting me about national laws regarding the carrying of a concealed weapon, or "concealed carry" laws. I appreciate hearing from you. Over the past several years, a number of states have enacted laws permitting individuals to carry concealed weapons. These new state laws have generated a great deal of interest and controversy within Congress and among the public. Many law enforcement organizations and agencies have expressed concern about the widespread adoption of concealed carry laws. The challenge for me and other lawmakers is how to address constructively the issue of violent crime while striking a proper balance between public safety and individual rights. In February 2011, Representative Cliff Stearns of Florida introduced National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011, H.R. 822. This bill would amend the federal criminal code to allow a person carrying government-issued photo identification and a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm in one state to carry a concealed handgun in another state in accordance with the restrictions of that state, as long as he or she is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm under federal law. H.R. 822 passed the House of Representatives in November 2011. I will keep your concerns in mind if this bill is considered by the Senate. Thank you again for contacting me.Sincerely,Richard J. DurbinUnited States Senator RJD/vy

got the same e-mail....he needs to be voted out

[xmikex]

Federal Farmer, on 14 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I heard that they will run it as a stand-alone bill to force Obama to veto it to use in the election.

Eeeeeeexcellent.....

[blackhalo]

snubjob, on 14 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Federal Farmer, on 14 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I heard that they will run it as a stand-alone bill to force Obama to veto it to use in the election.

That makes sense. A way to show how he truly stands on the issue. As long as it can be attached to another bill later that he can't say no to, it might be good strategy.

I'm more interested in it passing rather than "shaming" Obama.  I wish our legislators would stop political posturing and instead get something done.  Attach it to an anti-child rape law or something else impossible to veto and lets get this done.

Edited by blackhalo, 15 March 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[lockman]

After reading Durbin's response I am still waiting for his answer.

[kurt555gs]

lockman, on 15 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

After reading Durbin's response I am still waiting for his answer.

A skilled politician can write pages without saying anything at all. It's the art of the profession.

[Lou]

That's better than the answer I got. Durbin said they were getting thousands of emails and would answer mine as soon as possible.

[snubjob]

blackhalo, on 15 March 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

snubjob, on 14 March 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Federal Farmer, on 14 March 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

I heard that they will run it as a stand-alone bill to force Obama to veto it to use in the election.

That makes sense. A way to show how he truly stands on the issue. As long as it can be attached to another bill later that he can't say no to, it might be good strategy.

I'm more interested in it passing rather than "shaming" Obama.  I wish our legislators would stop political posturing and instead get something done.  Attach it to an anti-child rape law or something else impossible to veto and lets get this done.

I wish it was that way too, but that's how the "game" is played. Like it or not.

[bushyfan24]

If this were to get passed i don't think it will be too long before we will no longer be able to say illinois is the only state without cc.  I suspect many of the more restrictive "may issue" states will push for outright prohibition.

The movement for CC has swept the nation and i think in some part due to the momentum of state after state enacting cc laws.  I worry forcing states hands to go back to outright prohibition in order to avoid reciprocity might be a step backward.

[Ranger]

FWIW:  I'm currently on my way back to Illinois from Washington D.C. where I had meetings with one of Durbin's and one of Kirk's staff members about some other stuff; but I did put in a big plug for second amendment causes while I was meeting with Kirk's staff.  It was a good meeting and went smoother than the one with Durbin's staff (where I didn't bother to even bring up the second amendment).

Also, FWIW:  Kirk's staff member indicated that Kirk was fully recovered mentally and working hard to recover physically.

[Xwing]

lockman, on 15 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

After reading Durbin's response I am still waiting for his answer.

His answer is:

Dicky Durbin, on Anytime, said:

I don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I will vote against, and twist arms to try and get this bill voted down. But I'm too chicken to come out and say as much, so I will mouth empty platitudes. Maybe you're stupid and will fall for it. It must work, because I keep on being reelected.

[samy12386]

Xwing, on 16 March 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

lockman, on 15 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

After reading Durbin's response I am still waiting for his answer.

His answer is:

Dicky Durbin, on Anytime, said:

I don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I will vote against, and twist arms to try and get this bill voted down. But I'm too chicken to come out and say as much, so I will mouth empty platitudes. Maybe you're stupid and will fall for it. It must work, because I keep on being reelected.

Hahahahahaha!!!! This bill sure would make one of your apps much more simple!!! I will still keep it updated though.

[milq]

lockman, on 15 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

After reading Durbin's response I am still waiting for his answer.

I got the same kind of response on something different a few years back, I responded with something like this: "Rep. So and so.....You have failed to answer my question, in fact you've given no answer at all. I'd appreciate it if you would, at least, display the intestinal fortitude required to have a position on the issue."

I didn't get a response from that one at all of course. I just felt the need to let them know that I'm not stupid and can see the side-stepping.

[mrjam2jab]

Xwing, on 14 March 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

(Although I imagine Hawaii would quickly take their laws off the books that allowed CCW, and I would think N.Y, MD and CA may try to as well.)  

bushyfan24, on 15 March 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

If this were to get passed i don't think it will be too long before we will no longer be able to say illinois is the only state without cc.  I suspect many of the more restrictive "may issue" states will push for outright prohibition.

The movement for CC has swept the nation and i think in some part due to the momentum of state after state enacting cc laws.  I worry forcing states hands to go back to outright prohibition in order to avoid reciprocity might be a step backward.

The issue with repeal...Even tho the Average Joe can't get a permit, there are plenty of "upper crust" folks that do have them in those states...and THEY won't want to give them up.