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#1 GWBH

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:39 AM

http://www.nwaonline...8dcgunrecip.txt


Bill Forces States To Accept Concealed Gun Permits
Last updated Monday, April 14, 2008 8:06 PM CDT in News
By Aaron Sadler
THE MORNING NEWS
WASHINGTON -- Americans with state-issued concealed weapons permits would be allowed to carry guns wherever they travel in the country under a bill introduced Monday by 3rd District Rep. John Boozman, R-Rogers.

The measure would eliminate a mishmash of concealed weapons regulations that vary from state to state, Boozman contends. All states would be forced to recognize concealed handgun permits from elsewhere.

Gun control advocates oppose the bill. They say that gun permit standards in some states are so weak that other jurisdictions deserve the right to refuse those license holders.

Boozman said the bill ensures Second Amendment rights.

"I've always felt like you can have a gun, openly display it, and there not be a problem," he said. That some states reject licensed permits from other states "infringes on the Constitution."

Nearly 62,000 Arkansans have concealed gun permits.


Arkansas permit holders are allowed to carry a concealed weapon in 27 states, including every neighboring state.

Arkansas recognizes permits issued in 30 states.

Fourteen states do not recognize permits issued elsewhere.

"You have friends who are used to having a gun in their car and things like that, then inadvertently being over the state line or out of state and being concerned they were running afoul of state law," Boozman said.

Boozman's bill would require even Illinois and Wisconsin, which do not have right-to-carry laws, to recognize licenses issued in other states.

A bipartisan group of 33 House members are co-sponsors of the bill, Boozman said.

He acknowledged that it may be difficult to gain enough support for the legislation, and said there is anti-gun sentiment in the Democratic-led Congress. But he cited statistics that indicate crime decreases in states with concealed guns laws.

According to a study cited by the National Rifle Association, violent crime declined each year from 1977 to 1994 in jurisdictions where a concealed gun law was in effect.

Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said his organization is not anti-gun, but it opposes the bill because of its impact on states.

"There are already too many states that have too weak a system of approving people for concealed-carry permits," Hamm said. "I don't think the majority of states want to rely on the systems of other states to let someone carry a loaded, concealed handgun across state borders."

For instance, Florida's standards are so low that some death-row inmates there have permits, he said.

Arkansas at one time had minimum reciprocity requirements, said state police spokesman Bill Sadler. Those regulations mandated that other states' training standards must be equal to or stronger than Arkansas' minimum requirements for a permit holder.

The General Assembly since has stripped those requirements, Sadler said.

Sadler said he would not comment on the merits of Boozman's bill until he had seen the proposed legislation.

Boozman said he feels strongly that Americans should be allowed to carry guns.

"I grew up in Arkansas, and it was not uncommon to see people in high school with gun racks in the back of their trucks, who would go squirrel hunting after school was over," Boozman said. "To be honest, it's something I always felt like there wasn't any question we could do these things."

His 26-year-old daughter, Kristen Boozman, has an Arkansas concealed weapons permit, as do other family members, he said. The congressman himself does not.

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#2 Chris

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:42 AM

Cool, I don't think it will get anywhere but we need keep having these to maybe get somewhere some day.
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#3 Kaeghl

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:01 AM

Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said his organization is not anti-gun, but it opposes the bill because of its impact on states.

"There are already too many states that have too weak a system of approving people for concealed-carry permits," Hamm said. "I don't think the majority of states want to rely on the systems of other states to let someone carry a loaded, concealed handgun across state borders."

For instance, Florida's standards are so low that some death-row inmates there have permits, he said.

Dayum three lies right there, and no one in the media caught it.

The Brady Campaign is not anti-gun? Since when, you lying sack of horse-hockey?

And Florida? Excuse me, I had to either take an expensive class to get certification before I could even apply, or get my training via Uncle Sugar, which is not exactly an easy process. Try toting that rifle/pistol for 12 miles a day, and being able to disassemble/reassemble it in under 1:15, and qualify for record with dire consequences if you fail. Not to mention the constant reminders of the lethality.

Death row inmates there have permits? Since when? C'mon show me the proof that they still have them. Did they ever have them?

#4 MARKHOLSTRUM

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:02 AM

even if it gets through congress I bet Bush will veto it :headbang1:

...and if it does get passed and signed I bet that IL will make a law to outlaw IL citizens from using other state's permits while in IL :devil:
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#5 JKooL

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:06 AM

even if it gets through congress I bet Bush will veto it :headbang1:

...and if it does get passed and signed I bet that IL will make a law to outlaw IL citizens from using other state's permits while in IL :devil:


Bush has rarely vetoed anything, I would hope he wouldn't jump on the veto-bandwagon with this piece.

I agree with the others who said this bill won't get anywhere, but as long as they keep getting proposed over and over, we'll get it sooner or later!
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#6 45superman

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:10 AM

Found the bill--it's H.R. 5782. To my (admittedly uneducated) eye, it looks better than other national reciprocity bills that have been introduced in the past. Under those (the way I read them) a state would only have to honor a permit issued by the carrier's home state. This would mean that people from out of state could carry in IL, but residents could not (even with, say, a PA permit)--obviously not what we're looking for.

This one handles that differently, though:

`(1) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry in any State a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or permit, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.


That would seem to mean Illinois would have to recognize out-of-state permits issued to Illinois residents.

I agree that this will have a tough road to travel, but it already has 33 co-sponsors--not bad, this quickly.

I'll have to ask Congressman Shimkus to sign on.
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#7 GWBH

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:16 AM

Sent this to the Brady bunch... I know they won't respond but it made me feel better!

Bill Forces States To Accept Concealed Gun Permits
Last updated Monday, April 14, 2008 8:06 PM CDT in News
By Aaron Sadler
THE MORNING NEWS
WASHINGTON -- Americans with state-issued concealed weapons permits would be allowed to carry guns wherever they travel in the country under a bill introduced Monday by 3rd District Rep. John Boozman, R-Rogers.

The measure would eliminate a mishmash of concealed weapons regulations that vary from state to state, Boozman contends. All states would be forced to recognize concealed handgun permits from elsewhere.

In this article, Peter Hamm, your spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said his organization is not anti-gun, but it opposes the bill because of its impact on states.

"Florida's standards are so low that some death-row inmates there have permits, he said.


"Peter Hamm, your spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence said his organization is not anti-gun"
and...
"Florida's standards are so low that some death-row inmates there have permits"


Really??

Mr. Hamm should get his facts straight before commenting on something he knows nothing about. It makes him look stupid when he spouts off out of utter ignorance of Florida law.
The media gave him a pass on this one, but I doubt that will happen much longer after the Supreme Court ruling on the DC handgun ban - you remember that one don't you?
It's the gun ban you support, even though the Brady Campaign is not "anti-gun"??

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Phil Compton "ishmo", "L" Company 75th Infantry (RANGER) 101st Airborne Division (VietNam 1968 - 1969 / 1970 - 1971 )
A good man, a good soldier, a patriot and a true friend.

PFC Patrick J. Bohan, 101 Pathfinder Detachment, 101st Airborne Division, KIA, July 10, 1970, on FSB Ripcord
 


#8 Thirdpower

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:34 AM

Good catch all.

Blogged.

#9 banddr2

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:38 AM

http://www.nwaonline...8dcgunrecip.txt

For instance, Florida's standards are so low that some death-row inmates there have permits, he said.


Huh? I didn't know death row inmates can carry guns, now wonder it takes so long to impose their sentences!

#10 JKooL

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:39 AM

How absurd would it be if out-of-staters could carry concealed weapons in Illinois but Illinois residents could not???

I would LOVE to see this passed, it would give Illinois pro-gun supporters a huge logical argument (if they can, why can't we?)!
"These left wing democrats are the lowest of the low. Real lowlifes." - Mark Levin

#11 45superman

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:49 AM

I hadn't yet gotten around to getting my thank you note sent off to Congressman Shimkus (for his co-sponsorship of H.R. 4900, the BATFE Modernization and Reform Act), so I sent a FAX today combining that with a request for his support for H.R. 5782.
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#12 Wolfhound

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 12:21 PM

How absurd would it be if out-of-staters could carry concealed weapons in Illinois but Illinois residents could not???

I would LOVE to see this passed, it would give Illinois pro-gun supporters a huge logical argument (if they can, why can't we?)!


If it passed you would have to get a permit from a state that allows non residents to apply. If Illinois doesn't want the revenue I'm sure Florida or another free state would be happy to take it.
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#13 Drylok

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 01:32 PM

Wow, this is huge, this combined with a favorable decision on D.C. vs Heller could take care of all our problems in one sweep!
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-

#14 Slappy

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:21 PM

I'm excited!!! if we can bypass all of the IL b.s. im game!!!
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed! Lets keep em coming!

#15 bob

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:23 PM

Found the bill--it's H.R. 5782. To my (admittedly uneducated) eye, it looks better than other national reciprocity bills that have been introduced in the past. Under those (the way I read them) a state would only have to honor a permit issued by the carrier's home state. This would mean that people from out of state could carry in IL, but residents could not (even with, say, a PA permit)--obviously not what we're looking for.

This one handles that differently, though:

`(1) A person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry in any State a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or permit, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.


That would seem to mean Illinois would have to recognize out-of-state permits issued to Illinois residents.

I agree that this will have a tough road to travel, but it already has 33 co-sponsors--not bad, this quickly.

I'll have to ask Congressman Shimkus to sign on.

Pretty worthless to Illinois residents since as written, the UUW act basically prohibts citizens from carrying anywhere outside there home.
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The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

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#16 45superman

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:52 PM

Pretty worthless to Illinois residents since as written, the UUW act basically prohibts citizens from carrying anywhere outside there home.

Hmm--I'd missed that. Hopefully it will get amended with a provision like this one, from H.R. 861:

`(b)(1) If such other State issues licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms, the person may carry a concealed firearm in the State under the same restrictions which apply to the carrying of a concealed firearm by a person to whom the State has issued such a license or permit.

`(2) If such other State does not issue licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms, the person may not, in the State, carry a concealed firearm in a police station, in a public detention facility, in a courthouse, in a public polling place, at a meeting of a State, county, or municipal governing body, in a school, at a professional or school athletic event not related to firearms, in a portion of an establishment licensed by the State to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, or inside the sterile or passenger area of an airport, except to the extent expressly permitted by State law.'.


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#17 raiven

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 02:55 PM

just sent this emaill to don manzullo to support this bill.

#18 45superman

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:01 PM

Pretty worthless to Illinois residents since as written, the UUW act basically prohibts citizens from carrying anywhere outside there home.


Actually, after a bit more thought, I'm not sure that's as big a problem as I'd initially thought when you brought this up. The places that one would still not be able to carry under H.R. 5872 are "specific types of locations"--Illinois' UUW laws are anything but specific. Still, that's a question for an attorney, not me.
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#19 MWG321

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 03:29 PM

Hey, if it means putting more and more pressure on blagojevich and daley, I'm all for it. Go ahead and let out-of-state people carry concealed. We need all the "ammunition" that we can get :headbang1:

#20 FST_Kent

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:43 PM

That would seem to mean Illinois would have to recognize out-of-state permits issued to Illinois residents.


I thought the way it read was if your home state issued you a permit every other state would have to recognize it. IL doesn't issue carry permits. Out of stater's with permits from their home state would be allowed to carry in IL if this bill were signed into law.

#21 Rail

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 10:38 PM

It could be perceived as a problem for shall-issue states that have training requirements though. All of a sudden, everyone in Florida or Texas will be applying for a permit in PA or NH. I'm sure the issuing agencies in the former two states would raise heck.

There should be an exemption for states that do not have a shall-issue law, saying that any state whose permit meets a certain requirement could be used by residents of states like Illinois. That's probably something that's more politically doable.

I wouldn't have much to worry about. I can just go down to Alabama, claim residency with my parents, then get my pistol license issued there. But it just wouldn't be fair for folks here. So I'm on your side when it comes to getting something that won't screw IL residents.

#22 Patriot J

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:02 PM

Really??

Mr. Hamm should get his facts straight before commenting on something he knows nothing about. It makes him look stupid when he spouts off out of utter ignorance of Florida law.
The media gave him a pass on this one, but I doubt that will happen much longer after the Supreme Court ruling on the DC handgun ban - you remember that one don't you?
It's the gun ban you support, even though the Brady Campaign is not "anti-gun"??


You forget, the media is part of the problem. Very little coverage on the Naperville NIU event, but just let Jesse
hi-jackson have 20 people at some gun shop and it's on the front page.

#23 Drylok

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:24 PM

Due to the line quoted below I'm still not sure that this bill would allow IL or Wi citizens to aquire a permit from another state and then carry in IL or Wi.
I need a yes or no can someone clear this up for me please?

"subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried."
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-

#24 45superman

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:26 PM

I wish I knew, Drylok.
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#25 Drylok

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:47 PM

I wish I knew, Drylok.


That's not the response I was expecting from you 45.... :rolleyes:
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-

#26 45superman

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 06:52 PM

I wish I knew, Drylok.


That's not the response I was expecting from you 45.... :rolleyes:

I guess I do tend to talk a big game, don't I? I'm not one of the smarter folks here--I'm just the one least capable of shutting up.
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#27 Drylok

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 07:06 PM

I wish I knew, Drylok.


That's not the response I was expecting from you 45.... :thumbsup:

I guess I do tend to talk a big game, don't I? I'm not one of the smarter folks here--I'm just the one least capable of shutting up.



:rolleyes: Ooooooh sheet, that's too funny.
Well hopefully someone will come along and help us to clear this up. Even if the law as written would allow us to do what I asked ^ I also wonder what possibilities there are for King Daley and Blago to block it in IL.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
-Thomas Jefferson-

Now two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red, the white, the blue. The other ones got a rattle snake with a simple statement made, don't tread on me, is what it says and I'll take that to my grave
-Aaron Lewis-

#28 MWG321

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 07:25 PM

Well, they can try to do what the mayor in Philadelphia is trying........to no avail...... They would have to fight the Federal Government, which they will surely lose.