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Carry Without Physical Copy of CCL


AllenG

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Does anyone know the legality of carrying a concealed firearm without a physical copy of a CCL? Assuming all other laws are being followed and one has an active CCL, is it legally necessary for carriers to have the card on them whenever they are carrying? I'm wondering because my CCL has just gone active, and my impatience is getting the best of me. Please forgive me if this question has been asked or answered elsewhere.

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This topic should of been covered in your class.

 

(g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the licensee carries a concealed firearm except:
(1) when the licensee is carrying or possessing a
concealed firearm on his or her land or in his or her abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission;
(2) when the person is authorized to carry a firearm
under Section 24-2 of the Criminal Code of 2012, except subsection (a-5) of that Section; or
(3) when the handgun is broken down in a
non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a case.
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This topic should of been covered in your class.

 

(g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the licensee carries a concealed firearm except:

(1) when the licensee is carrying or possessing a

concealed firearm on his or her land or in his or her abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission;
(2) when the person is authorized to carry a firearm
under Section 24-2 of the Criminal Code of 2012, except subsection (a-5) of that Section; or
(3) when the handgun is broken down in a
non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a case.

 

IANAL and definitely would never claim to be. Also not one to boast about my reading comprehension or lack there of but to the bold, IMO you could possess a license without physically possessing at any given moment. Just because it isn't in your pocket doesn't mean you don't have one. I'm sure this is another situation where a "test case" comes in to play. The fact is, a LEO could pull your info from any ID and find out whether you are an active card carrier or not.

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IANAL and definitely would never claim to be. Also not one to boast about my reading comprehension or lack there of but to the bold, IMO you could possess a license without physically possessing at any given moment. Just because it isn't in your pocket doesn't mean you don't have one. I'm sure this is another situation where a "test case" comes in to play. The fact is, a LEO could pull your info from any ID and find out whether you are an active card carrier or not.

 

If being a licensee meant that one was always "in possession" of a license, then the law would not have listed on own properly exemption. Would be no need for it.

Also, Section 10 states that a licensee must present the licensee must present the license, if requested by an investigating officer.

 

" (h) If an officer of a law enforcement agency initiates an investigative stop, including but not limited to a traffic stop, of a licensee or a non-resident carrying a concealed firearm under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act, upon the request of the officer the licensee or non-resident shall disclose to the officer that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm under this Act, or present the license upon the request of the officer if he or she is a licensee or present upon the request of the officer evidence under paragraph (2) of subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act that he or she is a non-resident qualified to carry under that subsection. The disclosure requirement under this subsection (h) is satisfied if the licensee presents his or her license to the officer or the non-resident presents to the officer evidence under paragraph (2) of subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act that he or she is qualified to carry under that subsection. Upon the request of the officer, the licensee or non-resident shall also identify the location of the concealed firearm and permit the officer to safely secure the firearm for the duration of the investigative stop. During a traffic stop, any passenger within the vehicle who is a licensee or a non-resident carrying under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act must comply with the requirements of this subsection (h)".

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possess: 1. To have as property; own. 2. To have as a quality, attribute, etc. 3. To exert control over, dominate. 4. To seize, gain. (New Webster's Dictionary)

 

possess: To have in one's actual control; to have possession of (Black's Law Dictionary)

 

questions: Can you own property without it being in your pocket? Can something be in your actual control without it being in your pocket?

 

I guess these are questions for the courts to decide at some point. The one time that I was pulled over the officer knew I had a CCL before he even came up to the car. He never asked to see the card itself. To be on the safe side and not be the test case, have the card in your pocket whenever you are carrying off of your own property.

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This topic should of been covered in your class.

 

(g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the licensee carries a concealed firearm except:

(1) when the licensee is carrying or possessing a

concealed firearm on his or her land or in his or her abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission;
(2) when the person is authorized to carry a firearm
under Section 24-2 of the Criminal Code of 2012, except subsection (a-5) of that Section; or
(3) when the handgun is broken down in a
non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a case.

 

IANAL and definitely would never claim to be. Also not one to boast about my reading comprehension or lack there of but to the bold, IMO you could possess a license without physically possessing at any given moment. Just because it isn't in your pocket doesn't mean you don't have one. I'm sure this is another situation where a "test case" comes in to play. The fact is, a LEO could pull your info from any ID and find out whether you are an active card carrier or not.

 

Never get tired of these discussions. Words matter.

 

I think you're on to something, looky here:

g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the licensee carries a concealed firearm except:

(1) when the licensee is carrying or possessing a

 

You just have to possess a license on your land except when you are carrying or possessing. It appears that carrying and possessing have different meanings.

 

I'm still going to carry my card.

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In reading the OP, he is awaiting the “just went active” CCL

Without adding more confusion to the equation he wants to carry without the physical card.

Which is a no......

When trying to jump from own property or parkways etc, it’s just more noise for him to decipher through.

 

IF the OP took the class, it should have been covered and possibly a copy of the class materials was taken home by him!

 

My way of relating this in class is:

When on/in your own residence you are not carrying, you are armed!

Once you leave your residence, then you are carrying a concealed firearm.

 

Best in my opinion to make it as easy to understand like taking to a child. No he is not a child, but the point is make it very easy.

 

JMO

YMMV

IANAL

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Everything has consequences.

You can certainly carry without physical possession of your CCL.

Just make sure you are willing to accept the consequences of not having it and being asked to produce it.

That said, I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of anyone being asked to physically produce their license.

Go for it - maybe you can be the “test case”.

As for me, I’ll just carry it while carrying - it’s just easier....

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BMeyers is correct.

You must have the card with you if you want to carry outside your home, place of business, or at someone else's home with their permission. It is a violation of the CCW law if you carry a handgun without a license in your possession. You may be licensed to carry, but you are breaking the law without the physical on your person.

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BMeyers is correct.

You must have the card with you if you want to carry outside your home, place of business, or at someone else's home with their permission. It is a violation of the CCW law if you carry a handgun without a license in your possession. You may be licensed to carry, but you are breaking the law without the physical on your person.

 

Please read Bmyers post again as your interpretation is incorrect.

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BMeyers is correct.

You must have the card with you if you want to carry outside your home, place of business, or at someone else's home with their permission. It is a violation of the CCW law if you carry a handgun without a license in your possession. You may be licensed to carry, but you are breaking the law without the physical on your person.

Please read Bmyers post again as your interpretation is incorrect.

 

 

Please cite the where he is incorrect and then show the correct information in the law, or an administrative or court decision. Refer to any other legitimate source you may have.

No one learns when debate consists of "You're wrong". "No, you're wrong". "No, you're wrong". etc. etc.

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BMeyers is correct.

You must have the card with you if you want to carry outside your home, place of business, or at someone else's home with their permission. It is a violation of the CCW law if you carry a handgun without a license in your possession. You may be licensed to carry, but you are breaking the law without the physical on your person.

 

Please read Bmyers post again as your interpretation is incorrect.

Please cite the where he is incorrect and then show the correct information in the law, or an administrative or court decision. Refer to any other legitimate source you may have.

No one learns when debate consists of "You're wrong". "No, you're wrong". "No, you're wrong". etc. etc.

This has been covered numerous times here. If you read Bmyers post, it comes directly from 430 ILCS 66/10 (g).

 

You need an FCCL if you're carrying on public land/property. You only need to be in possession of a FOID card if you're on your own land, abode, your fixed place of business or on another's land with their permission.

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Thanks for all your responses. For those that say it should have been covered in my class: yes, it probably should have been, but I am almost certain it wasn't. And I had no "take home" material, which is why I posed the question to you guys. I didn't really want to read through the entire Concealed Carry Act for the umpteenth time to find it, and I knew you guys would know exactly where to look. The law is pretty clear on this, but I just didn't know where the law was. I will wait for my card to show up. I'll just twitch and scratch my arms in the meantime.
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I think it's also listed on the back of the CCL that you must be in possession of it at all times while carrying, and what exceptions to that rule exist.

"Illinois law requires you to carry your concealed carry license at all times when carrying a concealed firearm except:"

 

.on his land, legal dwelling, etc

.broken down non functioning, etc

.Sect 24-2 of 2012 criminal code

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I do not leave home without my card. I do not want to be a test case. That said what would be my legal status if my wallet is lifted while our with my gun?

The isp may interpret the law for enforcement but only the courts have theu power of interpretation.

Some years back the isp tried to claim a loaded mag was to be treated the same as a loaded firearm. They found out they do not have that power.

If one found himself in court fighting this my money is on the license holder. I read somewhere, maybe here, that there is case law on the meaning of possess.

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You report the lost wallet and FCCL, regardless of reason, as soon as possible.

 

 

"(430 ILCS 66/55)

Sec. 55. Change of address or name; lost, destroyed, or stolen licenses.

(a) A licensee shall notify the Department within 30 days of moving or changing residence or any change of name. The licensee shall submit the requisite fee and the Department may require a notarized statement that the licensee has changed his or her residence or his or her name, including the prior and current address or name and the date the applicant moved or changed his or her name.

( b ) A licensee shall notify the Department within 10 days of discovering that a license has been lost, destroyed, or stolen. A lost, destroyed, or stolen license is invalid. To request a replacement license, the licensee shall submit:

(1) a notarized statement that the licensee no longer possesses the license, and that it was lost, destroyed, or stolen;

(2) if applicable, a copy of a police report stating that the license was stolen; and

(3) the requisite fee.

 

(c ) A violation of this Section is a petty offense with a fine of $150 which shall be deposited into the Mental Health Reporting Fund.

(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 99-29, eff. 7-10-15.)"

 

The law is not explicit, but I would continue to carry and keep copies of the paperwork with me. It is extremely unlikely the a LEO is going to randomly ask to see your FCCL.

It has been reported here that at traffic stops, even when we volunteer that we are carrying and have a FCCL, the officer thanks the person does not even want to see it.

In the case of a shooting that would be different. The possibility that you will ever be involved in a shooting is extremely unlikely. At that point you would get a lawyer.

If you were justified in the shooting, it is highly doubtful that the absence of the card will be a concern. If you were not justified, the card will be the least of your problems.

The paranoia that some display, that cops are just waiting to get us, does not seem to happen in real life with the regularity they predict.

 

Of course if you are very concerned now, you should consult your attorney.

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Odd circumstances come up.

My “back-up” wallet was stolen from my home while I was traveling out of the country. I felt there was no reason to risk losing my FOID/CCL and some other cards when I could not use them for weeks.

 

It took more than 45 days to get replacement cards. ISP advised me to NOT carry until the new card was in hand. Going to the range and buying guns or Ammo was also not possible. Obviously, having your CCL stolen WHILE CARRYING presents different problems.

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