Capt_Destro Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:44 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:44 AM So educate a Southern Illinoisan about something. Let's pretend I am traveling though Highland Park and I am CCing a Glock 17? I get stopped for a traffic violation and inform the officer I am carrying. He takes possession of the pistol for his protection. Am I going to get arrested for 17 round mags? Or let's say I am transporting an AR with 30 mags in the trunk of my car. Somehow or other he searches the car. Am I not protected since I am in transport mode? Depending on the answers is how many miles I intend to stay away from Highland Park.By state law you are protected but. Technically you can still be arrested and wrongfully have your property confiscated..... :/ I stated in another thread, you can be arrested for about anything. All it takes is an ignorant LEO on a power trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplant Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:16 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:16 AM I wonder if the weapons charge will get plea bargained away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:24 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:24 AM So educate a Southern Illinoisan about something. Let's pretend I am traveling though Highland Park and I am CCing a Glock 17? I get stopped for a traffic violation and inform the officer I am carrying. He takes possession of the pistol for his protection. Am I going to get arrested for 17 round mags?Or let's say I am transporting an AR with 30 mags in the trunk of my car. Somehow or other he searches the car. Am I not protected since I am in transport mode?Depending on the answers is how many miles I intend to stay away from Highland Park. Straight from the mouth of the Chief of Police, Paul Shafer, with HPPD Commander in attendance at a meeting I requested several months ago on behalf of Tom Kossof of Illinois Concealed Carry, LLC, if the police have any reason to handle your firearm they will be checking magazine capacity. It doesn't matter if you're just driving through on 41 and get hit by a semi crossing 22. You're screwed if the officers touch your gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:42 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 02:42 AM So educate a Southern Illinoisan about something. Let's pretend I am traveling though Highland Park and I am CCing a Glock 17? I get stopped for a traffic violation and inform the officer I am carrying. He takes possession of the pistol for his protection. Am I going to get arrested for 17 round mags? Or let's say I am transporting an AR with 30 mags in the trunk of my car. Somehow or other he searches the car. Am I not protected since I am in transport mode? Depending on the answers is how many miles I intend to stay away from Highland Park.It would not be an Arrest,,, you would be "Cited", in other words you would be fined for the offense. The question as to whether they would confiscate your gun as well as the Magazines is another matter. The City has an Ordinance, it is not a criminal violation... it is a violation of a Municipal Ordinance and they make you go before their "Hearing Officer". It is a rigged set up, to garner more money for the City, no real justice... just a rip off. 10 Round Mag.s is the way to go, while in HP or Cook County. Now, there is no limit as to how many you can have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:01 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:01 AM I hope Rep Scott Drury is happy getting this law pushed through in a panic and allowing the law to regulate handguns, which the state clearly said the citys didn't have the right to regulate. No HP can spend more money on defending another aspect of the Drury AWB panic. Does it inconvenience or annoy gun owners?Does it result in free press with his name in it?Then he's happy. Actually... he was really not happy with how quickly the Highland Park City Council Passed a Cook County Style AWB. He and I were Butting heads at these meetings and I was not shy about letting him know my position at the Deerfield Meeting. I had him so upset at the Lake Forest meeting that he stated that "regardless of what some people are telling you... this AWB has nothing to do with the Second Amendment!" That was a moment to remember, as the Lake Forest City Council did not buy it at all. After that meeting we talked about what he was doing and he said that "Highland Park really screwed things up." Those were his words and while I have very little respect for anyone who is working to violate my Constitutional Rights... on that statement at least, I could not agree more! One of the reasons Drury said that Highland Park really screwed things up is that he wanted the military community to be able to keep their firearms. That's straight from his mouth. He's always claimed to be pro-military. Many military personnel are so upset with him and Highland Park over this that several pepper in my neighborhood supported Dr. Neerhof in the last election. I was one of them. Rep. Scott Drury was Gov. Quinn's errand boy, Quinn used him to push the AWB to the Home Rule Communities, it was a failure overall. Only a handful of Communities actually adopted the AWB and some of those communities adopted an ordinance that was not what Quinn and Drury wanted... Buffalo Grove for example, only Banned Fully Automatic Weapons and Deerfield adopted an Ordinance requiring "Safe Storage". If memory serves me well, North Chicago, Highland Park, Skokie, Evanston and one more town actually adopted the Quinn AWB. The ISRA and concealcarry.com did a great job of organizing the resistance. A funny sidenote... I met a guy in Highland Park that stole Rep. Scott Drury's Nanny and is taking her to Texas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted January 14, 2015 at 04:57 AM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 04:57 AM So educate a Southern Illinoisan about something. Let's pretend I am traveling though Highland Park and I am CCing a Glock 17? I get stopped for a traffic violation and inform the officer I am carrying. He takes possession of the pistol for his protection. Am I going to get arrested for 17 round mags? Or let's say I am transporting an AR with 30 mags in the trunk of my car. Somehow or other he searches the car. Am I not protected since I am in transport mode? Depending on the answers is how many miles I intend to stay away from Highland Park.It would not be an Arrest,,, you would be "Cited", in other words you would be fined for the offense. The question as to whether they would confiscate your gun as well as the Magazines is another matter. The City has an Ordinance, it is not a criminal violation... it is a violation of a Municipal Ordinance and they make you go before their "Hearing Officer". It is a rigged set up, to garner more money for the City, no real justice... just a rip off. 10 Round Mag.s is the way to go, while in HP or Cook County. Now, there is no limit as to how many you can have! So, what is to stop someone who is so cited from simply filing suit against the town of Highland Park, challenging the ban as violating the state statute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM So educate a Southern Illinoisan about something. Let's pretend I am traveling though Highland Park and I am CCing a Glock 17? I get stopped for a traffic violation and inform the officer I am carrying. He takes possession of the pistol for his protection. Am I going to get arrested for 17 round mags? Or let's say I am transporting an AR with 30 mags in the trunk of my car. Somehow or other he searches the car. Am I not protected since I am in transport mode? Depending on the answers is how many miles I intend to stay away from Highland Park.It would not be an Arrest,,, you would be "Cited", in other words you would be fined for the offense. The question as to whether they would confiscate your gun as well as the Magazines is another matter. The City has an Ordinance, it is not a criminal violation... it is a violation of a Municipal Ordinance and they make you go before their "Hearing Officer". It is a rigged set up, to garner more money for the City, no real justice... just a rip off. 10 Round Mag.s is the way to go, while in HP or Cook County. Now, there is no limit as to how many you can have! So, what is to stop someone who is so cited from simply filing suit against the town of Highland Park, challenging the ban as violating the state statute? That is already in process, Friedmann v Highland Park is scheduled to be heard on Jan. 22nd, at the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hap Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:19 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:19 PM Just to clarify: Friedman v HP challenges the city's ordinance as violating the Second Amendment. There is as yet no action challenging the ordinance for its violation of state law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:24 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:24 PM Does the ordinance have a severance clause? If any portion is found unconstitutional would the whole ordinance be void, this preventing the city from passing anything further due to the state law deadline has passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:45 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:45 PM Just to clarify: Friedman v HP challenges the city's ordinance as violating the Second Amendment. There is as yet no action challenging the ordinance for its violation of state law.Thank you, good point! I contacted the Lake County States Attorney and they stated in an E-Mail, that the Ordinance is valid, unless found Unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hap Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:55 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 01:55 PM Does the ordinance have a severance clause? If any portion is found unconstitutional would the whole ordinance be void, this preventing the city from passing anything further due to the state law deadline has passed? The city code states (applying to the entire thing, not just the chapters concerning firearms): Sec. 10.020 Rule of separability.Each Chapter, section or, whenever divisible, part section of this Code of Ordinancesis hereby declared to be separable, and the invalidity of any Chapter, section or divisiblepart section, shall not be construed to affect the validity of any other Chapter, section orpart section of this Code. The existing firearms ordinances are a cornucopia of conflicts with state law and recent court decisions, but they will need to be dismantled piece by piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:18 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:18 PM How much is the fine for being caught with a standard size mag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:26 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 03:26 PM 136.999 says this is a misdemeanor charge. The penalty is up to 6 months imprisonment, and/or $500 - $1,000 fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WtJen Posted January 14, 2015 at 07:55 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 07:55 PM 136.999 says this is a misdemeanor charge. The penalty is up to 6 months imprisonment, and/or $500 - $1,000 fine. That seems to me to be a criminal matter and not simply a fine like a parking ticket or red light camera. A misdemeanor is a crime, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted January 14, 2015 at 08:18 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 08:18 PM 136.999 says this is a misdemeanor charge. The penalty is up to 6 months imprisonment, and/or $500 - $1,000 fine.That seems to me to be a criminal matter and not simply a fine like a parking ticket or red light camera. A misdemeanor is a crime, no?Echoing my thoughts... Jail time over a municipal ticket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 14, 2015 at 09:16 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 09:16 PM The harder they push the harder their opposition will push back. That's something our opposition doesn't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted January 14, 2015 at 09:16 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 09:16 PM 136.999 says this is a misdemeanor charge. The penalty is up to 6 months imprisonment, and/or $500 - $1,000 fine.That seems to me to be a criminal matter and not simply a fine like a parking ticket or red light camera. A misdemeanor is a crime, no? Echoing my thoughts... Jail time over a municipal ticket? This. Home Rule can set up kangaroo court of liability, but to assess a penalty as a misdemeanor with similar fine seems to be crossing a legal boundary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 14, 2015 at 11:55 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 11:55 PM This is the reply from the Lake County States attorneys Office... Re: Your inquiry concerning Highland Park local ordinances concerning magazine capacity. The Concealed Carry Statute in Illinois is the result of case law which ruled that US Citizens have the right to protect themselves with the use of firearms. The Courts ruled that local and state governments cannot bar firearms, but they can put reasonable restrictions on them.. Highland Park has chosen to limit magazine capacity. All persons within Highland Park must abide by that statute until it is repealed or found unconstitutional. The charge for violating that statute would be a local ordinance prosecuted by their municipal attorney. Our office does not prosecute local ordinance violations. dkleinhubert@lakecountyil.gov 847-377-3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted January 14, 2015 at 11:59 PM Share Posted January 14, 2015 at 11:59 PM This is the reply from the Lake County States attorneys Office... Re: Your inquiry concerning Highland Park local ordinances concerning magazine capacity. The Concealed Carry Statute in Illinois is the result of case law which ruled that US Citizens have the right to protect themselves with the use of firearms. The Courts ruled that local and state governments cannot bar firearms, but they can put reasonable restrictions on them.. Highland Park has chosen to limit magazine capacity. All persons within Highland Park must abide by that statute until it is repealed or found unconstitutional. The charge for violating that statute would be a local ordinance prosecuted by their municipal attorney. Our office does not prosecute local ordinance violations.dkleinhubert@lakecountyil.gov847-377-3000 Was the state preemption of home rule restrictions mentioned when you contacted him, or better yet specifically quoted in the inquiry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 15, 2015 at 12:29 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 12:29 AM Yes, I specifically requested to know if the State of Illinois Pre-Emption would protect me from this Ordinance, because I am not a Resident of Highland Park. I explained that I am a Conceal Carry License holder and that I was concerned, as to whether I would be subject to this Ordinance if stopped by an LEO, as I am driving through HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:23 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:23 AM Yes, I specifically requested to know if the State of Illinois Pre-Emption would protect me from this Ordinance, because I am not a Resident of Highland Park. I explained that I am a Conceal Carry License holder and that I was concerned, as to whether I would be subject to this Ordinance if stopped by an LEO, as I am driving through HP. Methinks that getting arrested in HP would be a prime opportunity to both challenge the ordinance as well as clarify the preemption meaning in a court of law. I wonder how long before there is a test case for that precise thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:42 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:42 AM I'd volunteer, but Todd said don't back in February after I got home from a city council meeting. Something about bad PR, target on my back, etc, etc. It actually p***** me off that he did that, but I complied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:51 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:51 AM I'd volunteer, but Todd said don't back in February after I got home from a city council meeting. Something about bad PR, target on my back, etc, etc. It actually p***** me off that he did that, but I complied. This looks like a situation where taking a page from civil disobedience tactics would be useful. Have a lawyer draw up a court challenge to the ordinance, along with a statement that says the intent is to challenge and invalidate the ordinance in court, then take an unloaded high-capacity magazine and attach it to the documents. Then present it to a law enforcement official from the town and demand to be arrested and charged. Record the entire incident, as well as informing media outlets of the event so they can be on hand to report it, and then proceed with the highly publicized challenge to the unlawful ordinance. I used to work with some progressive activist folks and they would do that sort of thing to agitate and protest all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:14 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:14 AM The problem is that you will not be Arrested... your Magazine will be seized and you will be given a Citation. The Citation will Order you to Pay a fine and go before a Municipal Hearing Officer at The City of Highland Park. Just like the man who was "Cited" in this incident. If you read the statement by the Lake County States Attorneys Office, this is made very clear. Governor Quinn, worked closely with Rep. Scott Drury, Senator Julie Morrison and Congressman Brad Schneider in the implementation of the 10 Day Window, to create an AWB Ordinance in the Home Rule Communities. Our best opportunity, would be if the Friedmann Case goes to SCOTUS. In the mean time... a Boycott of H.P. is a Powerful Force of change. If there were an organized and enthusiastic group of people who were unrelenting in going from business to business, day after day and that got Media attention... then the Queen of Highland Park, Nancy Rottering... could be defeated in her upcoming Re-Election bid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubicon Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:37 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:37 AM BOOM...there it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted January 15, 2015 at 05:02 AM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 05:02 AM Image saved to my phone. Btw, I think I found another huge problem with Highland Park's AWB -- airsoft. Airsoft ammunition is larger than 0.20 inches in diameter. Airsoft uses escaping gas to launch projectiles. Airsoft is semi auto, at the minimum. Airsoft looks like the firearms named as prohibited. Airsoft has features named as prohibited. Airsoft magazines hold more than 10 rounds. Technically, nail guns qualify as Assault Weapons under the ordinance too, but there is an exemption specifically stating industrial construction equipment is exempt. However, it doesn't appear the orange tip at the end of the barrel makes any difference. Todd and Molly have already been emailed. I'm awaiting a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vactor Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:42 PM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 01:42 PM The problem is that you will not be Arrested... your Magazine will be seized and you will be given a Citation. The Citation will Order you to Pay a fine and go before a Municipal Hearing Officer at The City of Highland Park.reading the quoted ordinance seems to indicate that you probably WILL be arrested (same as if in chicago you are caught using a playground if you are over 12 years of age) and you will be subject to criminal prosecution and can go to JAIL for up to 6 months. not a pleasant prospect and not a nominal punishment either. jail is for real! (well, in cook county it sure is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim123 Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:56 PM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 03:56 PM The problem is that you will not be Arrested... your Magazine will be seized and you will be given a Citation. The Citation will Order you to Pay a fine and go before a Municipal Hearing Officer at The City of Highland Park.reading the quoted ordinance seems to indicate that you probably WILL be arrested (same as if in chicago you are caught using a playground if you are over 12 years of age) and you will be subject to criminal prosecution and can go to JAIL for up to 6 months. not a pleasant prospect and not a nominal punishment either. jail is for real! (well, in cook county it sure is) You can't be serious. A 13 year old on the swings in a park can get arrested in $hitcago? God I gotta leave this state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_notch Posted January 15, 2015 at 04:35 PM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 04:35 PM Wow. Okay, so this is stating that if I get pulled over in HP with my Glock 19 (15 rounds) I can be cited by the police? I thought the State law trumped local? Where else would I be limited in capacity of my firearm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Posted January 15, 2015 at 06:33 PM Share Posted January 15, 2015 at 06:33 PM The States Attorney is correct that courts have ruled state and local authorities can impose reasonable restrictions, but it stops short of the essential issue. The State has preempted all local laws regardingthe purchase, possession and transport of firearms and ammunition, but gave cities a time limit (10 days) in which to impose bans on assault weapons. All conflicting laws enacted prior to FCCL were invalidated. The Highland Park ordinance mirrors the definition of assault weapons, but adds magazine limits, which are not enumerated in the state law. They are operating under the theory that if something is not expressly allowed under state law, they are free to make up their own rules. Conversely, it can be argued that possession and transportation of ammunition encompasses the container in which they are maintained. By HP's logic, since FCCL does not mention black, blue or nickel, carry on the right side or left, or adjustable sights, they are free to set requirements only valid within their boundaries. The extent of state preemption is a much simpler question than whether certain cosmetic features are allowed under the US Constitution, and does not even belong in Federal Court except as a civil rights issue. The alleged illegal possession of marijuana complicates the issue, and is incompatible with possession of firearms or ammunition under current law. We need a clean case to bring before an Illinois Circuit Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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