Will Most of the Republicans Leave Illinois?

[heckler40]

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

16% cheaper in GA compared to where I live in IL now.

[Tip]

 

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

 

 

16% cheaper in GA compared to where I live in IL now.

 

And 10% more expensive in GA compared to where I live in IL now (Rural IL to rural GA)...

Depends upon where you live and where you wanna go....

 

Try running the numbers on where you live now to someplace Rural downstate...

[heckler40]

 

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

 

 

16% cheaper in GA compared to where I live in IL now.

And 10% more expensive in GA compared to where I live in IL now (Rural IL to rural GA)...

Depends upon where you live and where you wanna go....

 

Try running the numbers on where you live now to someplace Rural downstate...

 

 

What's the biggest impact on yours? Home cost was the most for me and the only item that got more expensive was utility (+1%).

[heckler40]

 

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

 

 

16% cheaper in GA compared to where I live in IL now.

And 10% more expensive in GA compared to where I live in IL now (Rural IL to rural GA)...

Depends upon where you live and where you wanna go....

 

Try running the numbers on where you live now to someplace Rural downstate...

 

I did Edwardsville and then the same place in GA and it's 27% more expensive.

 

Would like to see how they run the math as I'm more interested in % difference, not $ difference. The home calculation appears to be a huge influence and it's $ not %.

[Tip]

 

 

 

 

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

16% cheaper in GA compared to where I live in IL now.

 

 

And 10% more expensive in GA compared to where I live in IL now (Rural IL to rural GA)...

Depends upon where you live and where you wanna go....

Try running the numbers on where you live now to someplace Rural downstate...

 

 

 

 

What's the biggest impact on yours? Home cost was the most for me and the only item that got more expensive was utility (+1%).

 

Food & Groceries, Housing, median home cost, utilities, healthcare and misc. were all higher on mine.

 

But then again Edwardsville shows 22% higher. As will any of the “major” urban areas of the state....

The nearest town to me is 750 (the place in GA I was comparing to is 650 or so). Although in less than an hour I can be in a major metropolitan area...

My only point was folks kept saying it was cheaper to get outta state — not necessarily — it’s cheaper to get outta the city.

[crufflesmuth]

The price of freedom is worth it

[dragos111]

Here is an interesting link. Not a lot of information in the small article, but something of which to take note:

 

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/illinois-thinking-about-imposing-a-stiff-exit-tax-to-leave/

 

So, if you want to leave Illinois, it's going to cost you!

[Lou]

Here is an interesting link. Not a lot of information in the small article, but something of which to take note:

 

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/illinois-thinking-about-imposing-a-stiff-exit-tax-to-leave/

 

So, if you want to leave Illinois, it's going to cost you!

There’s not a lot of detail there. I wonder how they could do it other than a tax/fee on the sale of a home.

[JTHunter]

Here are some more links.

 

Kiplinger's State by State Guide on Retirees.

https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/index.php

 

Retirement Living

https://www.retirementliving.com/taxes-by-state

 

Wallethub - Tax rates by state

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416/

 

Tax-rate.org Tax Rates

http://www.tax-rates.org/taxtables/income-tax-by-state

[dragos111]

 

Here is an interesting link. Not a lot of information in the small article, but something of which to take note:

 

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/illinois-thinking-about-imposing-a-stiff-exit-tax-to-leave/

 

So, if you want to leave Illinois, it's going to cost you!

There’s not a lot of detail there. I wonder how they could do it other than a tax/fee on the sale of a home.

 

 

I suppose they could take a page from the Federal Government. If you want to surrender your citizenship, it will cost you thousands. They could simply pass a law that someone moving to another state will owe some amount upon leaving. I would guess they would be sued for such action, but I would not put that past them.

 

The idea of a tax on homes at the state level has already come up. They have floated a balloon indicating that they are thinking of a 1% state property tax, which would last for 30 years, to help pay for the pensions and such.

 

My major problem with any tax scheme is that they have done it already, many times. Pass this tax to pay off some debt. But, they never fix the problem. The new tax comes in, the problem grows more out of hand and they wind up looking for more money.

[quackersmacker]

From post above: "They could simply pass a law that someone moving to another state will owe some amount upon leaving. I would guess they would be sued for such action, but I would not put that past them."

 

Such an act would never survive a court challenge. The Constitution is crystal clear in this regard, via the Commerce Clause, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3. And probably many other laws and precedents.

 

But you're right, B.J. Prickster's minions might try it anyway. Might as well waste some more of the IllAnnoy taxpayers' money.

[Flynn]

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

The 4.95% income tax alone compared to 0 in TN is huge if someone was to go that route, plus it's not all about the cost of living it's about the preservation of rights.

 

The property taxes in Lake County are stupid, I could literally afford to own two or three houses out of state vs paying just the property taxes on the house I rent. Sure I could move downstate and get cheaper property taxes and housing but that wouldn't gain me anything in regards to 2nd rights or avoiding IL income tax, and whatever other taxes are bound to come down the pipeline in the coming years.

[richp]

Hi,

 

We need to face hard facts.

 

The state cannot legally declare bankruptcy.

 

The only way to pay current debts and meet future financial (largely pension) obligations is to raise taxes.

 

The bulk of the wealth and earning power in this state resides in the middle class.

 

That is where the burden will be laid.

 

Wishing it were not so, but sadly believing that it is...

 

Rich Phillips

[Flynn]

The only way to pay current debts and meet future financial (largely pension) obligations is to raise taxes.

 

And this compounds exponentially since people are leaving IL in swarms, this leaves less and less people to tax, so they have to keep raising taxes just to hold status quo, not to actually make progress.

 

FYI, I read an article the other day that said just to get 'current' on pension funding every IL citizen is on the hook for nearly $20K in additional taxes already! That is just to get 'current' not to sustain the pension funding going forward.

 

The bubble is going to bust.

[lilguy]

Here is what is being suggested by Federal Reserve Economists.

 

 

In our view, Illinois' best option is to impose a statewide residential property tax," they wrote, in part because it would be fair: "Illinois residents who have benefited most from the past services of governmental employees are more likely to be homeowners, so it seems reasonable that they should pay a larger share of the costs."

 

They are proposing a statewide tax of 1 percent of a home's value. Under their plan, the tax bill on a $500,000 house would go from about $11,600 to $16,600, an increase of $5,000, paid each year for 30 years.

[soundguy]

Here is what is being suggested by Federal Reserve Economists.

 

This is the full Crane's article "Jack up property taxes for pensions, say three Chicago Fed economists".

 

I suppose it is fortunate that we generally fail to take the recommendations of our best and brightest.

 

-property tax goes up

-prices go down quickly

-lower cost housing attractive to new buyers

-selling not attractive to current owners

[GTX63]

 

Unless you are stuck in the suburbs of Chicago you might be surprised at the results. Most of us in downstate find that when comparing the cost of living between here and most any of the places mentioned in this thread we’re better off here — by a long shot. https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/

 

The 4.95% income tax alone compared to 0 in TN is huge if someone was to go that route, plus it's not all about the cost of living it's about the preservation of rights.

 

The property taxes in Lake County are stupid, I could literally afford to own two or three houses out of state vs paying just the property taxes on the house I rent. Sure I could move downstate and get cheaper property taxes and housing but that wouldn't gain me anything in regards to 2nd rights or avoiding IL income tax, and whatever other taxes are bound to come down the pipeline in the coming years.

 

 

I'm not comfortable with the accuracy of the link above. I know people living in rural Tenn, Missouri and Kentucky. They make a lot less money than I do and are doing just fine for the most part where they are. The fixed taxes/fee/surcharges are less and the consumable taxes are higher, in some cases.

By and large, the cost of living is less for them as well as the amount of government services.

If they are worse off where they are, they don't seem to know it.

[Skolnick]

they have done it already, many times. Pass this tax to pay off some debt. But, they never fix the problem. The new tax comes in, the problem grows more out of hand and they wind up looking for more money.

In 1969, Richard "the Governor with guts" Ogilvie gave Illinois an income tax where there was none before.

That gutsy move cost him the 1972 election to Dan "the Peoples Man" Walker, who expanded horse racing, created the Illinois Lottery, raised the sales tax, and legalized bingo.

By the time "Big Jim" Thompson took over in 1977, they were out of money again.

There is NEVER ENOUGH of your money for them to spend.

 

-

In 1990, the Democratic Congress forced George "read my lips" Bush to sign the (then) largest ever deficit reduction bill, among its many terms were:

- the income tax rate on individuals making over $50,000 was increased

- the wage base for Medicare was increased from $51,300 to $125,000

- a 10% tax was placed on boats, planes, furs, jewelry, and autos over $30,000

- the cigarette tax was raised from 16 to 24 cents a pack

- the federal tax on telephone calls was made permanent

- the tax on airline tickets went up from 8% to 10%

- the alcohol tax on hard liquor rose by $1 a gallon, and doubled on beer

- the gasoline tax was increased from 9 to 14 cents a gallon

- and SPENDING WAS TO BE REDUCED by $20 billion

That was in 1990 when the deficit was $221 billion. By 1993, the increased taxes and reduced spending "lowered" the deficit to $327 billion.

Less than three years later, the Democratic Congress and President Bill "I will not raise taxes on the Middle Class" Clinton passed an even larger tax increase to reduce the deficit.

There is NEVER EVER ENOUGH of your money for them to spend.

[spec4]

I remember Ogilvie and his introducing an income tax in Illinois. I slowly learned that in Illinois the Republican pols aren't a whole lot different from the Democrat pols.

 

I think the RINO Jim Edgar was the worst of the bunch as far as 2A goes. When he was in office I discussed concealed carry with my state rep. He said as long as Edgar is Gov., there won't be ccw.

[sctman800]

I don't personally remember but I have a friend, retired deputy sheriff that always cusses Edgar who had a CCW bill and would nor sign it. So we could have had CCW in around 1993. Jim.

[evilbrownrifle]

Even if it's cheaper for you to live in downstate IL today (or Cook vs Lake county, etc.) that will not likely be the case tomorrow. Building on what Rich posted, to a great extent we are in this problem because we have ran up liabilities, especially public pensions, while avoiding the tax to support those liabilities because, well, the producers could no longer be blissfully ignorant of the financial realities if they did so. The can has been kicked down the road but IL has now run out of road.

 

We can have financial reform, raise various taxes or a combination of both. It's become clear that financial reform, including pensions, is off the table. So, they will work to find ways to have all residents pay for Chicago, Cook County and State liabilities. And right now the power is Chicago-> Cook County-> Everyone Else. They will try to soak Cook and the Collar Counties first, IMO, but that will still be far too little. So expect income taxes (which have been kept down) to start to match property taxes as the highest in the land.

 

I was optimist this election mainly because I figured the downstaters HAD to see what was coming. Pritzker did not hide his agenda. The downstate Blue Dog Democrats are no longer of interest to the party. They are expendable. Even though the IL GOP is fairly useless, a co conspirator in most cases, if they flipped to Republican and got the Madigan power vortex out of play there might have been a chance. But, some lessons are going to have to be learned the hard way.

[sctman800]

"while avoiding the tax to support those liabilities"

 

I have to disagree; the taxes were there they just went for more and more free stuff. If it wasn't for the entitlement/vote buying coming out of taxes much of the money could have been used for pensions. Just like the last temporary income tax hike that was said to be to pay down the state debt. When the temporary term was over the state had more debt and more money spent on entitlements. Jim.

[evilbrownrifle]

"while avoiding the tax to support those liabilities"

 

I have to disagree; the taxes were there they just went for more and more free stuff. If it wasn't for the entitlement/vote buying coming out of taxes much of the money could have been used for pensions. Just like the last temporary income tax hike that was said to be to pay down the state debt. When the temporary term was over the state had more debt and more money spent on entitlements. Jim.

 

Our income tax burden is actually fairly moderate, though overall we have the highest total tax burden. So there is plenty of room to increase income taxes (and property and the numerous hidden taxes that are already high).

 

As to pension liabilities, certainly there is plenty of waste in government and money has been shifted from pension payments to the general budget. Again, plenty of wasteful spending but, we do expect our tax dollars to pay for at least some programs that benefit all of us directly. And in many cases they also involve public union workers. But, both here and in most states with pension liabilities being a significant issue, the states essentially have 2 workforces, one paid and one retired, where the retirees often spend 20-30 years at a very high percentage of their employment salary which is often not that small (especially in big blue states) by comparison to the private sector. I read a few years back about CA lifeguards retiring at 50 with $100K plus benefits.

 

Some public union deals are better (or worse, depending on your perspective) than others. If you happen to have one of those pensions then good for you. Nothing wrong with personally trying to maximize you deal. I wish I had one. But the majority of us have nothing close to that deal and we are expected to pay for it and the amount of pain we will endure to do so is fairly limited. For some of us we lump the pension deal in with other wasteful aspects of government because if the honest costs for everything combined WERE known to the average taxpayer then there would be a limit to spending (because we would have voted with our wallets in mind) and that limit would not only cover govt. programs but pension compensation as well.

 

Regardless, either the money will be there to pay for it or not, and if I had a pension and was fairly young I would not be counting on that in any of these blue states.

[Beezil]

I am moving my business and 165 jobs over to indiana. done deal.

 

i already bought land in missouri. will probably not move my residency yet.

[jim123]

I am moving my business and 165 jobs over to indiana. done deal.

 

i already bought land in missouri. will probably not move my residency yet.

http://fortune.com/2018/08/08/missouri-right-to-work-referendum-unions/

[Beezil]

 

I am moving my business and 165 jobs over to indiana. done deal.

 

i already bought land in missouri. will probably not move my residency yet.

http://fortune.com/2018/08/08/missouri-right-to-work-referendum-unions/

 

?

[brianj - now in Kansas]

I can tell you that according to the bestplaces.net price comparison calculator, it's 12% cheaper where I am now in Kansas vs. where I was in Illinois.

 

At some point there's going to have to be one of two things happen in Illinois: there's either going to have to be some sort of amendment to the state constitution allowing the reduction of state pension benefits for retired workers, or there's gonna be a Taxamageddon at some point. And I can't even imagine how bad the taxes are going to have to be to drag Illinois back out of the hole. Like Rich (and a few others) on this thread have said, though: Illinois has never in my experience had any sort of fiscal responsibility. They will look you in the face, tell you that the temporary tax is there only to bail out the pension funds. Then they'll take the increase, farm it back out to the cronies, and when the time comes for the tax to revert, not only has the pension fund crisis not been corrected, but it's even worse off than before.

 

It will be very interesting (in a Chinese-curse sense) to watch what happens when the unstoppable force finally meets the immovable object. I think Rauner was trying, but there was no way King Mike was going to let him be effective as governor. Hence we have people voting for J.R. because "Rauner was stopping everything".

 

Man, am I glad I was able to get out of there before Bad Things started happening.

 

Bri

[Marie]

I'm staying put. Some people have to stay to fight, plus my Great Lakes wreck diving is here - perfect location for it

[Flynn]

And I can't even imagine how bad the taxes are going to have to be to drag Illinois back out of the hole.

 

I personally don't believe they can tax enough to bail out the system at this point and if they could they would have to tax even more on top of that to sustain going forward, no way the bubble doesn't pop before its goal taking that taxation route. Taxes big enough to fix the problem would turn the middle class into the welfare class, and the rich into the middle class, I doubt enough of those will stick around and have that done to them to work out.

[Lou]

 

And I can't even imagine how bad the taxes are going to have to be to drag Illinois back out of the hole.

 

I personally don't believe they can tax enough to bail out the system at this point and if they could they would have to tax even more on top of that to sustain going forward, no way the bubble doesn't pop before its goal taking that taxation route. Taxes big enough to fix the problem would turn the middle class into the welfare class, and the rich into the middle class, I doubt enough of those will stick around and have that done to them to work out.

I’ll admit my first feeling is one of pessimism. True, realistically Illinois cannot tax it’s way out of the years of “pension tax holidays” they took to dig them into the huge hole they (we) are in. My pessistic self says history shows Illinois politicians will do it anyway. They have no concept of what fiscal discipline means.