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3 hour for instructors?


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#1 powderhead

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:41 AM

Do instructors have to complete a 3 hour renewal??  I haven't read anything about it yet.



#2 soundguy

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:49 AM

Do instructors have to complete a 3 hour renewal??  I haven't read anything about it yet.

 

Pretty sure the answer is no.


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#3 dennyg

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:50 AM

Interesting question. I’d like to know too!

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#4 NRApistol

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:58 AM

No


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#5 stm

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 10:04 AM

By law, certified instructors are exempt from any of the training requirements. If you are an instructor, you should already know this.

Edited by stm, 13 July 2018 - 10:08 AM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#6 THE KING

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 11:45 AM

By law, certified instructors are exempt from any of the training requirements. If you are an instructor, you should already know this.

Very eloquently put.



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#7 Quiet Observer

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:04 PM


 

(430 ILCS 66/80)

    Sec. 80. Certified firearms instructors.

    (a) Within 60 days of the effective date of this Act, the Department shall begin approval of certified firearms instructors and enter certified firearms instructors into an online registry on the Department's website.

    (b ) A person who is not a certified firearms instructor shall not teach applicant training courses or advertise or otherwise represent courses they teach as qualifying their students to meet the requirements to receive a license under this Act. Each violation of this subsection is a business offense with a fine of at least $1,000 per violation.

    (c ) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor shall:

        (1) be at least 21 years of age;

        (2) be a legal resident of the United States; and

        (3) meet the requirements of Section 25 of this Act, except for the Illinois residency requirement in item (xiv) of paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Section 4 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and any additional uniformly applied requirements established by the Department.

 

    (d) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor, in addition to the requirements of subsection (c ) of this Section, shall:

        (1) possess a high school diploma or high school equivalency certificate; and

 

        (2) have at least one of the following valid firearms instructor certifications:

 

            (A) certification from a law enforcement agency;

           

(B ) certification from a firearm instructor course offered by a State or federal governmental agency;

 

            (C ) certification from a firearm instructor qualification course offered by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or

 

            (D) certification from an entity approved by the Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.

 

    (e) A person may have his or her firearms instructor certification denied or revoked if he or she does not meet the requirements to obtain a license under this Act, provides false or misleading information to the Department, or has had a prior instructor certification revoked or denied by the Department.

(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-600, eff. 12-6-13; 98-718, eff. 1-1-15.)

 

  Sec. 25. Qualifications for a license.

    The Department shall issue a license to an applicant completing an application in accordance with Section 30 of this Act if the person:

        (1) is at least 21 years of age;

        (2) has a currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card and at the time of application meets the requirements for the issuance of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card and is not prohibited under the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act or federal law from possessing or receiving a firearm;

 

        (3) has not been convicted or found guilty in this State or in any other state of:

 

            (A) a misdemeanor involving the use or threat of physical force or violence to any person within the 5 years preceding the date of the license application; or

 

            (B ) 2 or more violations related to driving  while under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or compounds, or any combination thereof, within the 5 years preceding the date of the license application;

 

        (4) is not the subject of a pending arrest warrant, prosecution, or proceeding for an offense or action that could lead to disqualification to own or possess a firearm;

 

        (5) has not been in residential or court-ordered treatment for alcoholism, alcohol detoxification, or drug treatment within the 5 years immediately preceding the date of the license application; and

 

        (6) has completed firearms training and any education component required under Section 75 of this Act.

 

(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-756, eff. 7-16-14.) 

 

Although not in this law there may be requirements that have to be met to maintain instructor certification.  An instructor here could probably verify this.



#8 stm

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:31 PM

            (2) have at least one of the following valid firearms instructor certifications:                 (D) certification from an entity approved by the Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.     Although not in this law there may be requirements that have to be met to maintain instructor certification.  An instructor here could probably verify this.
Most certified IL CCL instructors are NRA certified instructors. If their NRA certification is revoked or expired, ISP will remove them from the list of authorized instructors. It currently costs NRA members $35 to renew their instructor certification for 3 years. They are no longer required to teach a certain number of classes in a given time frame.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#9 Mr. Fife

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:47 PM

FYI, the ISP recognizes other training credentials besides the NRA for instructor qualification. NRA, NACFI, and USCCA are the top three recognized certifications. There are probably others as well. It doesn't hurt to have two or three under your belt if you enjoy being a trainer and have some spare time and cash to keep your boots dug in. This way you can stay in the game even if someone who is butthurt by something tries to get you removed. It's like insurance, but with the benefit of becoming even better at what you do.
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#10 reelpro

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:25 AM

I emailed this question to the ISP:

 

"As an instructor, do I have to take the 3 hour renewal class to renew my CCL?"

 

Here is the answer:

 

"All CCL applications have the same renewal requirements including submitting a training certificate for the 3-hour renewal course."

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#11 Mr. Fife

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:41 AM

This is what I figured they would do.
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#12 soundguy

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:46 AM

I emailed this question to the ISP:

 

"As an instructor, do I have to take the 3 hour renewal class to renew my CCL?"

 

Here is the answer:

 

"All CCL applications have the same renewal requirements including submitting a training certificate for the 3-hour renewal course."

Illinois State Police
Concealed Carry Firearms 
Instructor/Curriculum Section
801 S Seventh Street, Suite 400-M
Springfield, IL  62703

 

I don't think I like this answer... Molly?


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#13 reelpro

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:03 AM

This is what I figured they would do.

Yep.


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#14 Quiet Observer

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:02 AM

It seems that if one has been teaching the full 8 or16 hour class regularly, they are essentially repeatingly reviewing for themselves all the information and more that is covered in the 3 hour renewal class.  Their knowledge is current.  This might not be so for an instructor who taught 2 classes in 2014 and stopped teaching. There could be an administrative requirement that an instructor has had to have taught a class based on approved curriculum within the last 6 months to .  It could be a renewal course or the full 8 or 16 hour one.  They could shoot and verify their own target score or shoot for another instructor.  

 

A current temporary work around could be for  instructors to attend another's renewal class.  They could work out their of financial agreement or do it as a courtesy to each other.  In the case of a team, instead of splitting the duties for a class, "Tom" might do all the renewal class one day, while "Mary" sits in.  In the next class they switch roles.  This might be a problem if the ISP does not allow one to sign as a student for their own curriculum.



#15 NRApistol

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:14 AM

I`ll just add my name to the roster in my next renewal class and issue myself a certificate.  I assume the ISP wants instructors to sign the certificate to cover:

"I have read and understand the rules and requirements listed in 430 ILCS 66/1 et. seq. Firearms Carry Act."


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#16 Lou

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:27 AM

I emailed this question to the ISP:
 
"As an instructor, do I have to take the 3 hour renewal class to renew my CCL?"[/size]
 
Here is the answer:
 
"All CCL applications have the same renewal requirements including submitting a training certificate for the 3-hour renewal course."[/size]
Illinois State PoliceConcealed Carry Firearms Instructor/Curriculum Section801 S Seventh Street, Suite 400-MSpringfield, IL  62703

This was not my understanding. Guess Ill just sign my own certificate.

Common sense would dictate that if The State has certified me to teach the course I should not have to take it from someone else.

But then this is the state if Illinois and common sense isnt so common......

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#17 NRApistol

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:36 AM

My guess is the ISP wants a one size fits all approach.  Rather than creating a renewal portal just for instructors, we will be required to renew using the same system as our students.  Including attaching a current picture and a copy of the renewal certificate. 


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#18 Smallbore

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:52 AM

If i need to up load a renewal certificate i will,signed by me.

#19 stm

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:53 PM

To me, this sounds like someone made up an answer because they were too busy or too lazy to ask someone who knows the correct answer. The statute is very clear that instructors are exempt from the training requirements.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#20 Quiet Observer

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:37 PM

To me, this sounds like someone made up an answer because they were too busy or too lazy to ask someone who knows the correct answer. The statute is very clear that instructors are exempt from the training requirements.

 

 

Why did you not take the time to copy and paste from the law? 

80 (c ) (30) below seems to indicate that the ISP has the power to establish such requirements for recertification.

 

  “  (430 ILCS 66/80)

    Sec. 80. Certified firearms instructors.

    (a) Within 60 days of the effective date of this Act, the Department shall begin approval of certified firearms instructors and enter certified firearms instructors into an online registry on the Department's website.

    (b ) A person who is not a certified firearms instructor shall not teach applicant training courses or advertise or otherwise represent courses they teach as qualifying their students to meet the requirements to receive a license under this Act. Each violation of this subsection is a business offense with a fine of at least $1,000 per violation.

    (c ) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor shall:

        (1) be at least 21 years of age;

        (2) be a legal resident of the United States; and

        (3) meet the requirements of Section 25 of this Act, except for the Illinois residency requirement in item (xiv) of paragraph (2) of subsection (a) of Section 4 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and any additional uniformly applied requirements established by the Department.

 

    (d) A person seeking to become a certified firearms instructor, in addition to the requirements of subsection © of this Section, shall:

        (1) possess a high school diploma or high school equivalency certificate; and

         (2) have at least one of the following valid firearms instructor certifications:

 

            (A) certification from a law enforcement agency;

           

(B ) certification from a firearm instructor course offered by a State or federal governmental agency;

 

            (C ) certification from a firearm instructor qualification course offered by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or

 

            (D) certification from an entity approved by the Department that offers firearm instructor education and training in the use and safety of firearms.

 

    (e) A person may have his or her firearms instructor certification denied or revoked if he or she does not meet the requirements to obtain a license under this Act, provides false or misleading information to the Department, or has had a prior instructor certification revoked or denied by the Department.

(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-600, eff. 12-6-13; 98-718, eff. 1-1-15.)” 

 

I think that if someone lost their certification in law enforcement, education, or other agency they would no longer be recognized by the ISP.  I do not know if any of those institutions require periodic recertification of credentials.


Edited by Quiet Observer, 07 August 2018 - 04:42 PM.


#21 stm

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:21 PM

Why don't you quote the relevant portion of the law, then:

Sec. 75. Applicant firearm training. (h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement or corrections officer, who has successfully completed firearms training as required by his or her law enforcement agency and is authorized by his or her agency to carry a firearm; a person currently certified as a firearms instructor by this Act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section.
Certified instructors are exempt from the training requirements of the Act.

Edited by stm, 07 August 2018 - 08:22 PM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#22 Quiet Observer

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:16 PM

Section 75 deals with applicants.  Section 80 deals with instructors. 

 

Section 80 at the end says :

(e) A person may have his or her firearms instructor certification denied or revoked if he or she does not meet the requirements to obtain a license under this Act, provides false or misleading information to the Department, or has had a prior instructor certification revoked or denied by the Department.

 

Those instructors without LEO and/or institutional credentials apparently would have maintain a CCL, or meet the requirements, to continue teaching.  



#23 stm

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:15 PM

Section 75 deals with applicants.  Section 80 deals with instructors. 

 

Section 80 at the end says :

(e) A person may have his or her firearms instructor certification denied or revoked if he or she does not meet the requirements to obtain a license under this Act, provides false or misleading information to the Department, or has had a prior instructor certification revoked or denied by the Department.

 

Those instructors without LEO and/or institutional credentials apparently would have maintain a CCL, or meet the requirements, to continue teaching.  

 

Section 75 deals with TRAINING including RENEWAL TRAINING. Section 80 covers the requirements to become and remain a certified instructor.

 

If your are not eligible for a CCL, you cannot remain a certified instructor. Sometime after issuance of the first licenses, it became a requirement that certified instructors that reside in Illinois must either have a CCL, or be legally authorized to carry a firearm in public in Illinois by other means (LEO, etc). Non-residents were not allowed to become instructors for about a year, when they changed this requirement. Now, non-resident instructors must be legally eligible to carry a firearm in public in their home state, (instead of Illinois).

 

The topic of this thread is training requirements for instructors to renew their IL CCL's, not the eligibility requirements to become a certified instructors. 

 

Renewal training requirements are covered in Section 75, paragraph (d):

 

(d) An applicant for renewal of a license shall provide proof of completion of a firearms training course or combination of courses approved by the Department of at least 3 hours.

 

Paragraph (h) states that certain persons are EXEMPT from the REQUIREMENTS of Section 75, which includes all training requirements to obtain AND RENEW a CCL in Illinois:

 

Section 75


(h) A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an active law enforcement or corrections officer, who has successfully completed firearms training as required by his or her law enforcement agency and is authorized by his or her agency to carry a firearm; a person currently certified as a firearms instructor by this Act or by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training Standards Board; or a person who has completed the required training and has been issued a firearm control card by the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this Section.

 

Removing the unnecessary wordage from that paragraph, it says:

 

"... a person currently certified as a firearms instructor by this Act... shall be exempt from the requirements of this section."

 

The requirements of Section 75 include training necessary to acquire and renew a CCL. If you are already an instructor, you are exempt from the requirements to complete a 3-hour class before renewing your CCL. The original instructors were not required to have a CCL before becoming a certified instructor, or there never would have been any instructors to teach classes in the beginning. They received their CCLs without attending a class because paragraph (h) exempted them from the training requirements, just as it exempts current instructors from the training requirements to renew their CCL. 

 

I hope this clears it up for you.


Edited by stm, 07 August 2018 - 11:17 PM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#24 Lou

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 12:36 AM

^^^ what he said. ^^^^

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