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Carrying if under BAC .08


Jack1911

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As an instructor I recently had a debate with a student who insists that he can carry while under the influence of alcohol, as long as his BAC is below .08. His argument is that the law states:

 

.......A licensee shall not carry a concealed firearm while under the influence of alcohol under the standards set forth in subsection (a) of Section 11-501 of the Illinois vehicle code.

 

Any one else debating this?

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He may very well be following the letter of the law, but it is an incredibly stupid thing to be carrying while having any amount of alcohol in your system. Just imagine what the antis will claim if someone has even a tiny bit of alcohol in their blood stream when that person has a defensive shooting incident. That person will be crucified without doubt, especially here in Illinois right now. Not a good idea at all regardless of what the law may actually say. But that's just my opinion.
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I'm going off memory here and too tired from mowing to bother looking it up BUT, if memory serves, you can be convicted of "impaired" driving even if you are under the .08 limit -- if I remember right from .05 to .08... I would expect the same standards would apply to being armed. My concern wouldn't be some loud mouth anti-gun nuts, it would be the courts....

 

In my opinion, your student is ignorant of how thin the ice is that he would be treading....

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I'm going off memory here and too tired from mowing to bother looking it up BUT, if memory serves, you can be convicted of "impaired" driving even if you are under the .08 limit -- if I remember right from .05 to .08... I would expect the same standards would apply to being armed. My concern wouldn't be some loud mouth anti-gun nuts, it would be the courts....

 

In my opinion, your student is ignorant of how thin the ice is that he would be treading....

You're correct on all points. From .05 to .08 you could be considered "impaired" with other conditions. At .08 the courts CLEARLY consider you impaired. Totally not worth the risk at all.

 

It's the same as if you were driving with a "little" alcohol in your system and someone else causes a collision. Because of your possible impairment, what was clearly someone else's fault, could become your fault. So in a justifiable use of force, you've now tainted your case. Just not a smart thing to do.

 

- chip

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Having one beer or a glass of wine in my opinion is not going to cause a problem. It's not like they would throw you down on the sidewalk and take a blood sample. With only a small ammount of alcohol it would gone from your blood quite quickly. Carrying while impaired is another matter altogether.

 

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He may very well be following the letter of the law, but it is an incredibly stupid thing to be carrying while having any amount of alcohol in your system. Just imagine what the antis will claim if someone has even a tiny bit of alcohol in their blood stream when that person has a defensive shooting incident. That person will be crucified without doubt, especially here in Illinois right now. Not a good idea at all regardless of what the law may actually say. But that's just my opinion.

 

So it would be better to not carry and possibly get killed because you had a few drinks? At least this person would be around for the trial.

 

This is a double edged sword, no matter how you look at it. I go out a lot at night to the bars and many times my friends drive. The though of me riding back home through some undesirable neighborhoods at night unarmed is not something I like to think about. Not being able to keep a gun in the car to possibly keep myself from getting carjacked is offensive.

 

I can't find it now but there is a video of a bunch of guys coming home from the bars and they are in the hallway or doorway waiting to get inside their apt and they are mugged by a felon with a gun. I believe there is 4 guys and at least 3 were shot and one or 2 killed. You should be able to defend yourself at any time.

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.

 

 

.

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Here is the referenced section of the Vehicle Code

 

Sec. 11-501. Driving while under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or compounds or any combination thereof.
(a) A person shall not drive or be in actual physical control of any vehicle within this State while:
(1) the alcohol concentration in the person's blood or breath is 0.08 or more based on the definition of blood and breath units in Section 11-501.2;
(2) under the influence of alcohol;
(3) under the influence of any intoxicating compound or combination of intoxicating compounds to a degree that renders the person incapable of driving safely;
(4) under the influence of any other drug or combination of drugs to a degree that renders the person incapable of safely driving;
(5) under the combined influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, or intoxicating compound or compounds to a degree that renders the person incapable of safely driving; or

 

 

(1) is .08, but (2) would appear to be at the discretion of a LEO or judge

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He may very well be following the letter of the law, but it is an incredibly stupid thing to be carrying while having any amount of alcohol in your system. Just imagine what the antis will claim if someone has even a tiny bit of alcohol in their blood stream when that person has a defensive shooting incident. That person will be crucified without doubt, especially here in Illinois right now. Not a good idea at all regardless of what the law may actually say. But that's just my opinion.

 

So it would be better to not carry and possibly get killed because you had a few drinks? At least this person would be around for the trial.

 

This is a double edged sword, no matter how you look at it. I go out a lot at night to the bars and many times my friends drive. The though of me riding back home through some undesirable neighborhoods at night unarmed is not something I like to think about. Not being able to keep a gun in the car to possibly keep myself from getting carjacked is offensive.

 

I can't find it now but there is a video of a bunch of guys coming home from the bars and they are in the hallway or doorway waiting to get inside their apt and they are mugged by a felon with a gun. I believe there is 4 guys and at least 3 were shot and one or 2 killed. You should be able to defend yourself at any time.

.

.

 

 

.

While I agree with you saying that we should be able to defend ourselves at any time, I also would like to think that the responsible thing to do is to not drink while carrying. If you're advocating that we should be allowed or even encouraged to go out and get hammered while carrying I think that's simply a bad idea and not wise at all. Defend yourself while drunk all you want....but you're gonna spend the rest of your life behind bars. Or better yet...just don't drink in the first place and it's a moot point.

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They should have used the FAA standard of .04.

 

I think DOT uses that standard too but not sure.

You are correct. .04 is the limit for persons with a CDL, plus you can't drive for a minimum of an hour after a drink. This applies not only to commercial vehicles, but your personally owned vehicles too.

 

"The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree." -Thomas Campbell

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There is a distinction between having a beer and being "hammered". If you have a BAC of .04 and you have to defend your life against a gang banger who points a gun at you do you really think you're going to jail? What law did you break? If you have a beer at home and a home invasion occurs are you NOT going to grab your gun because you have had a beer?

 

I would take my chances on this rather than an early funeral, YMMV.

 

Understand I am not condoning getting drunk or buzzed while carrying. Use discretion, don't be stupid and understand that your car can be every bit as deadly as a gun.

 

Civil suits are another matter. At least you'll be alive to defend yourself in court.

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He may very well be following the letter of the law, but it is an incredibly stupid thing to be carrying while having any amount of alcohol in your system. Just imagine what the antis will claim if someone has even a tiny bit of alcohol in their blood stream when that person has a defensive shooting incident. That person will be crucified without doubt, especially here in Illinois right now. Not a good idea at all regardless of what the law may actually say. But that's just my opinion.

 

So it would be better to not carry and possibly get killed because you had a few drinks? At least this person would be around for the trial.

 

This is a double edged sword, no matter how you look at it. I go out a lot at night to the bars and many times my friends drive. The though of me riding back home through some undesirable neighborhoods at night unarmed is not something I like to think about. Not being able to keep a gun in the car to possibly keep myself from getting carjacked is offensive.

 

I can't find it now but there is a video of a bunch of guys coming home from the bars and they are in the hallway or doorway waiting to get inside their apt and they are mugged by a felon with a gun. I believe there is 4 guys and at least 3 were shot and one or 2 killed. You should be able to defend yourself at any time.

.

.

 

 

.

 

 

The best option for being able to defend yourself is not to get drunk. Why isn't that an option?

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He may very well be following the letter of the law, but it is an incredibly stupid thing to be carrying while having any amount of alcohol in your system. Just imagine what the antis will claim if someone has even a tiny bit of alcohol in their blood stream when that person has a defensive shooting incident. That person will be crucified without doubt, especially here in Illinois right now. Not a good idea at all regardless of what the law may actually say. But that's just my opinion.

 

So it would be better to not carry and possibly get killed because you had a few drinks? At least this person would be around for the trial.

 

This is a double edged sword, no matter how you look at it. I go out a lot at night to the bars and many times my friends drive. The though of me riding back home through some undesirable neighborhoods at night unarmed is not something I like to think about. Not being able to keep a gun in the car to possibly keep myself from getting carjacked is offensive.

 

I can't find it now but there is a video of a bunch of guys coming home from the bars and they are in the hallway or doorway waiting to get inside their apt and they are mugged by a felon with a gun. I believe there is 4 guys and at least 3 were shot and one or 2 killed. You should be able to defend yourself at any time.

.

.

 

 

.

 

Shows that there may be a need for a "Designated Defender". And in the same manner as a Designated Driver that person doesn't consume any alcohol.

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They should have used the FAA standard of .04.

 

I think DOT uses that standard too but not sure.

You are correct. .04 is the limit for persons with a CDL, plus you can't drive for a minimum of an hour after a drink. This applies not only to commercial vehicles, but your personally owned vehicles too.

 

"The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree." -Thomas Campbell

 

This is not true. Many have been taught this, but it is wrong.

.04 only applies to when you are 'on duty',

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The topic of this thread is carrying while having a BAC under .08, and while carrying you're likely going to be away from your home, hence the term "carrying". The only time I've carried at home is when trying to break in a new holster or whatnot, otherwise I simply have a firearm at the ready if needed. When I'm out running errands and such, then I'm carrying. At least this is how I personally interpret the term.

 

I did think about the case of a home invasion or burglary, and absolutely without a doubt we should be able to defend ourselves regardless of how much we drink. So in that case I agree 100%.

 

But if you're out carrying then the responsible thing to do is to simply not drink. If we can't make that simple decision to not drink whille carrying then the 51% rule will surely go away and the anti's will get another carve out of our limited carry ability.

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The question, though, is about the legality rather than the wisdom of carrying after drinking.

 

As I understand the vehicle code, .08 creates a presumption of impairment but doesn't preclude a finding that the person is impaired at lower BAC levels. I believe the same logic would apply under the FCCA, so there's probably no black and white answer below .08. It would depend on the individual, imo.

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They should have used the FAA standard of .04.

 

I think DOT uses that standard too but not sure.

 

You are correct. .04 is the limit for persons with a CDL, plus you can't drive for a minimum of an hour after a drink. This applies not only to commercial vehicles, but your personally owned vehicles too.

"The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree." -Thomas Campbell

 

 

 

This is not true. Many have been taught this, but it is wrong.

.04 only applies to when you are 'on duty',

I have friends who have been in situations where police have enforced the law this way. I've never followed up to ask about convictions though.

 

"The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree." -Thomas Campbell

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A lot is going to depend on just how clear cut your defensive use of a firearm was. If it is without a doubt that you were justified in the use of deadly force, it doesn't really matter if you were below the legal limit or not. If it is marginal case of justifiable self-defense, then the use of alcohol is definitely going to come into play in whether you are charged and is going to come into evidence in a trial if it goes that far.

 

Use a good deal of prudence when it comes to conceal carry and drinking. You would probably get away with the use of deadly force in a home situation even above the legal limit if it was clear cut self defense. Outside the home the paradigm shifts quite a bit.

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Consider the Zimmerman trial. I believed it was a clear case of self-defense but we know now that there were members of the jury leaning towards conviction. Had Zimmerman been drinking, that might have been enough to sway the jury vote on conviction. For sure the prosecution would have made a major issue of it.
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The fact that you're carrying implies that you recognize the possibility that you may need to use your weapon. If that possibility exists, then why consume any alcohol that may result in your reaction time being diminished, regardless of whether you're below some arbitrary "legal" or "impaired" limit or not? Is alcohol that freaking important?

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They should have used the FAA standard of .04.

 

I think DOT uses that standard too but not sure.

You are correct. .04 is the limit for persons with a CDL, plus you can't drive for a minimum of an hour after a drink. This applies not only to commercial vehicles, but your personally owned vehicles too.

 

wrong, only while on duty

 

"The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree." -Thomas Campbell

 

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If one blasted somebody for any reason outside one's home and it was determined one may have been drinking I would expect to see the shooter tested ad those tests used by any lawyer questioning the shooting.

 

Super heroes must be pure and uninfluenced in any way whilst safeguarding the masses.

 

If you can't measure up, leave the cape and gun at home.

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