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Doctors and CCL


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#1 SlickRS23

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 07:16 PM

Is it OK for someone in Illinois with a CCL and FOID to see a psychiatrist to help deal with issues without fear of losing an entire gun collection to the State police?

#2 THE KING

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 07:19 PM

I think it all depends on your psychiatrist. If he decides to report you for whatever, you will probably have your FOID and FCCL revoked.

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#3 Molly B.

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 07:46 PM

If the psychiatrist deems you a danger to yourself or others and reports his findings to the ISP, your FOID and CCL could/would be revoked.  You would have the option to transfer your firearms to someone you trust until you are given the all clear.  The appeal process to get your rights reinstated is a lengthy process.

 

edited to add, if you see a psychiatrist in a mental health facility even as an outpatient, I believe that is reported as well?


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#4 Euler

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:03 PM

I believe clinicians are required by law to report anyone they deem to be a danger to themselves or others. In particular, if they learn of someone committing child sexual abuse (past, present, or future), they can be charged with a crime and lose their license for not reporting it. Otherwise, doctor-patient confidentiality applies.

If your fear is simply that anyone seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist for counseling can lose their 2A rights, currently that should not be an issue.

However, Obama (the same as many presidents) looked over all the things he wanted to do but didn't get done, then issued executive orders on them. One of those executive orders was to report anyone using either Social Security benefits or Veterans Administration benefits for psychological counseling to NICS to prevent them from being able to purchase firearms. The Senate has a virtually never-used power to review presidential executive orders and nullify them, which McConnell did in this case with Trump's approval. Obama's executive order never took effect.

So anyone who sought counseling over the loss of a child, for example, or who sought couples counseling, as another, if they used SS or VA benefits to pay for the counseling, would have been prohibited in NICS.

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#5 Craigcelia

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 09:55 PM

edited to add, if you see a psychiatrist in a mental health facility even as an outpatient, I believe that is reported as well?

I don't believe this to be true, at least it wasnt in one case I know of. If they are inpatient, even for one night, the hammer will fall but not for seeing your psychiatrist at the facility, even if you go through outpatient treatment you are good, unless like mentioned, the Dr. reports you. I am speaking from personal experience with a family member. Heck, my family member was suicidal at one point and admitted that to the counselor and the Dr. Still was not reported - but, we had a plan worked out with the practioners. I also believe alot of it has to do with your relationship with the physician and how well he knows the patient.Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Edited by Craigcelia, 20 September 2019 - 09:58 PM.

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#6 Gator4838

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 10:39 PM

What is there,roughly,250,000 permits in il.I would go out on a limb and guess thousands have a history of,or are currently being treated outpatient,by a therapist or psychiatrist.if these people's licences were being revoked,I'm guessing we would be hearing from them frequently.if outpatient psych dropped a dime on you with a concern,a revocation would be likely.no question as to inpatient.if I can recall,is not the isp specific on the ccl and foid apps,that they ask specifically about inpatient psych and substance abuse,not outpatient.

#7 Bubbacs

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 12:39 PM

And some people wonder why humans don’t go to get help when they need it.
No one wants to vacate their rights and lose anything they like, ie shooting and owning firearms.

One can get/have an issue only after an event, say a major surgery and then Ned or want to speak to someone.
But knowing this MIGHT trigger them losing all those things, they just suffer through and do the best they can!

#8 Lou

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 01:12 PM

CPD is having a serious problem with officers committing suicide.

The are alternatives available but there is a belief that if they seek help their FOID could be revoked and they could lose their livelihood.
How sad is that.

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#9 carry

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 06:57 PM

Well, they may have an out by not applying for a FOID. Even if revoked they have an exemption: From the FOID Act down by the exemptions: ( c ) The provisions of this Section regarding the acquisition and possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties

Edited by carry, 21 September 2019 - 07:05 PM.


#10 mikeyk101

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:25 PM

The Chicago Police Department Legal Affairs Section has determined that even though there is that exemption, that FOID cards are required by CPD. It is actually inspected twice a year to make sure officers are in compliance. Their sticking point is the "engaged in the operation of their official duties". Their conclusion is that even if they are on duty, if they take one of their 2 allowed 15 minute personal breaks during work or their lunch, they are technically not engaged in the operation of their "official" duties and therefore dont fall under the exemption. Never mind that they are still required to monitor the radio for possible emergencies or priority calls and required to respond immediately...

So yes, CPD members still fall under the possibility that they could lose their livelihood if they do seek help. If the FOID is revoked, they are not allowed to work.

And another weird fact. Even though gun registration for residents of Chicago has been completely eliminated, the gun registration section is still active. That's because CPD officers are still required to register all of their on duty and all of their personally owned non duty weapons. Failure to do so will result in disciplinary measures. But personally owned non duty weapons would also fall outside the exemption and require the officer to have a FOID anyway.

Edited by mikeyk101, 21 September 2019 - 09:27 PM.


#11 vito

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 12:08 PM

I would keep in mind that there are no shortages of people, including psychiatrists and other physicians, that think that the ownership of a single gun is a sign of serious mental illness and thus a danger to society. I suggest that when considering going to a physician, you call their office and anonymously inquire what the physicians position is regarding gun ownership. You can state that while this seems a strange question to ask, as a 2nd Amendment supporter you would prefer to not be treated by someone that does not respect your Constitutionally guaranteed rights. I would expect that the office staff will say that they have no idea what the doctors stance on guns is, to which you can reply, please ask him, and then I will call again in a few days to get your response. If I get the right response, then I will ask for an appointment. This is a risk free issue because you will not give your name or phone number when making this inquiry. But again, be warned that seeking mental health help could well cost you your gun rights with the wrong practitioner. Just my two cents after working 48 years as a professional in the health care field.

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#12 Tango7

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 02:34 PM

CPD is having a serious problem with officers committing suicide.

The are alternatives available but there is a belief that if they seek help their FOID could be revoked and they could lose their livelihood.
How sad is that.


Lot of vets fall into the same category. They don't seek counseling for fear of losing a Right they fought for, then, after months or years where an untreated issue becomes a huge weight, they use that Right to kill themselves, and their act is used by those that hate us to further suggest restrictions on the 2A.
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#13 wolfcreek

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 02:36 PM

  Vito Best advice ever.I fell into this trap in 2013.An innocent trip to the doctor.Turned into loss of foid.Never to be returned.


Edited by wolfcreek, 22 September 2019 - 02:38 PM.


#14 vito

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

The solution is simple and straightforward. Require clinicians, under strict penalty for not doing so, to refer those that they are sure are a danger to themselves or others to a special court that would hold a hearing to determine if the person was clearly enough a threat that their FOID should be rescinded. The “accused” would get to appear, with counsel if desired, to refute the allegation that they are a threat. This would be similar to hearings for mental competency and guardianship appointments. Therefore, a person could seek help, relatively sure that most of the time no such referral would ever take place and if it were that they could show the judge that they are not a threat. But those on the Left have no concern about suicides. They only are looking for any and every way that they could keep individuals from legally owning a gun.

In the meantime, I suggest that anyone reading this that thinks they need to see a psychiatrist, travel across the state border and if need be, pay for the visit rather than submitting the charge to their insurance carrier. This might seem a burden, but certainly a lesser burden that eating one’s gun.

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#15 Lou

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 05:23 PM

CPD is having a serious problem with officers committing suicide.
The are alternatives available but there is a belief that if they seek help their FOID could be revoked and they could lose their livelihood.
How sad is that.

From the Scum Times- a 4th PD officer takes his own life:

Crawford, a 29-year veteran of the police force, served as a lieutenant with the police department until his retirement earlier this year, according to Chicago police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi and the Invisible Institute. He was based in the 5th District on the South Side when he retired.

Public records show Crawford was professionally licensed as a behavioral care counselor in March 2019.

Our heartfelt condolences go out to his family, Guglielmi said.

Crawford is the second retired officer to take his life in Chatham this year, and his death comes just days after the apparent suicide of Officer Paul Escamilla at the Bunker Hill Forest Preserve.

At least four Chicago police officers have died by suicide in 2019.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 





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