Ol'Coach Posted March 29, 2010 at 11:49 PM Share Posted March 29, 2010 at 11:49 PM Gonna be time to update! Stay on the link...keep watchin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted March 30, 2010 at 03:34 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 03:34 PM This might be the most heartening thread on gun rights in months. I'm practically misted-up.Iowa's had plenty of problems with urban liberals opposing gun rights, and my impression from this side of the Big Muddy is that it is indeed Dubuque that is the hottest spot.Iowa's old system was very 1930s in its approach, and non-resident permits appeared to be so difficult as to be impossible to get for any ordinary person.The law described here is borderline revolutionary, at least for Iowa, and congratulations of the highest order are due our Hawkeye friends.The amount of work this must have taken is hard to imagine.Even harder to imagine is Illinois going even halfway down the Iowan path with even twice as much work, but it seems easier today to try to picture it. Here's hoping we can look to it as a harbinger, and even more, a practical example for our legislators to look towards. (And a further destruction of the "bloodbath" meme.)So once this is done, of Illinois' bordering states, all of them accept all permits, resident- and non-resident (by the reading offered above), with the sole exception of Wisconsin: Iowa, Missouri, Kentucky, and Indiana.Some good company we have on (almost) all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted March 30, 2010 at 03:51 PM Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 03:51 PM Thanks, CherryRiver. I agree. For those who might not know the consequences of Iowa's (now defeated) "discriminatory issue" system for defensive carry, this map will be a great help. RED counties are effectively no-issueYELLOW counties vary in issuanceGREEN counties are effectively shall-issue We call this "discriminatory" issue (aka "May-Issue) because the local sheriff has total discretion over issuance. If, for example, he just doesn't think that folks should go armed, he won't issue a license to anyone. That IA will soon move from discriminatory issue to Shall-Issue is a HUGE victory. Those against carrying guns, and those who favor local control (like Chicago, and like Obama's Cheyenne/Chicago statements) are desperately hanging on to systems like those still in place in IA. The people of Iowa, via their legislature, have just driven another nail into the idea of local prohibition of fundamental rights guaranteed by our federal constitution. http://www.iowacarry.org/files/issuance-s.jpg What is a little surprising is that the RED counties don't very well correspond to urban areas in IA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federal Farmer Posted March 30, 2010 at 05:18 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 05:18 PM Thanks, CherryRiver. I agree. For those who might not know the consequences of Iowa's (now defeated) "discriminatory issue" system for defensive carry, this map will be a great help. RED counties are effectively no-issueYELLOW counties vary in issuanceGREEN counties are effectively shall-issue We call this "discriminatory" issue (aka "May-Issue) because the local sheriff has total discretion over issuance. If, for example, he just doesn't think that folks should go armed, he won't issue a license to anyone. That IA will soon move from discriminatory issue to Shall-Issue is a HUGE victory. Those against carrying guns, and those who favor local control (like Chicago, and like Obama's Cheyenne/Chicago statements) are desperately hanging on to systems like those still in place in IA. The people of Iowa, via their legislature, have just driven another nail into the idea of local prohibition of fundamental rights guaranteed by our federal constitution. http://www.iowacarry.org/files/issuance-s.jpg What is a little surprising is that the RED counties don't very well correspond to urban areas in IA. I come from a land where state boundaries are properly straight lines! Don't know what that means, bu there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted March 30, 2010 at 06:27 PM Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 06:27 PM I come from a land where state boundaries are properly straight lines! Don't know what that means, bu there it is. So which one of those three states do you come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federal Farmer Posted March 30, 2010 at 06:54 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 06:54 PM I come from a land where state boundaries are properly straight lines! Don't know what that means, bu there it is. So which one of those three states do you come from? Mostly straight lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Guardian Posted March 30, 2010 at 07:42 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 07:42 PM What is a little surprising is that the RED counties don't very well correspond to urban areas in IA. Strange. Last time I downloaded this map Johnson county was red, which corresponds to Iowa City, and the Univerisity of Iowa. Run by an extremely antigun sheriff who granted permits to no one but his friends, I guess he must have gotten voted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted March 30, 2010 at 07:52 PM Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 07:52 PM I come from a land where state boundaries are properly straight lines! Don't know what that means, bu there it is. So which one of those three states do you come from? Mostly straight lines? What ... are we playing horseshoes?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federal Farmer Posted March 30, 2010 at 08:25 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 08:25 PM I come from a land where state boundaries are properly straight lines! Don't know what that means, bu there it is. So which one of those three states do you come from? Mostly straight lines? What ... are we playing horseshoes?! Or hand-grenade toss. Looking east to west, don't you get the idea they got tired to drawing squiggly borders and just hacked out more basic shapes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted March 30, 2010 at 09:29 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 09:29 PM I need to go to Iowa soon. too bad they wont issue anything for non residents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezil Posted March 30, 2010 at 11:36 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 11:36 PM I need to go to Iowa soon. too bad they wont issue anything for non residents I might have read it wrong, but as garand was pointing out on page one, is that there will be reciprocity involved? do i have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted March 30, 2010 at 11:54 PM Share Posted March 30, 2010 at 11:54 PM Not reciprocity, in the full legal sense, but they will honor all other states permits.The reading cited above indicates that this will include both resident and non-resident permits, so presumably your Florida ticket will be honored.Reciprocity might be described as a higher level of honoring, with equal rights being exchanged.Sounds funny that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:02 AM Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:02 AM Yeah, thanks for that. I suspect this "reciprocity" versus "recognition" is a little confusing. Here is my take on it: Recognition is typically more inclusive. IA would be like IN and KY (among others) ... the broadest form of recognition. Those states recognize as valid ANY license issued by ANY state. Reciprocity is a bit more of a tit-for-tat game, and is more restrictive. Reciprocity means that state A honors state B's permit only if state B honors A's. The states enter into an "agreement of reciprocity." That is where you get into this language where "the Attorney General shall conduct a study of other state's laws, and finding them reasonably similar (eg. training requirements) he/she shall authorize an agreement of reciprocity with X state." Recognition isn't dependent upon in-kind recognition, while reciprocity is. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:12 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:12 AM I'd lean harder on the word "honor".Some years back when I was really reading everything I could about this stuff, I came away with the impression that reciprocity was a fuller exchange of rights, in that citizens of both states would be assured that they were protected by the agreement."Honor" is a one-way street; Indiana may honor your California permit (that made me laugh to type out!) but California will not honor your Indiana permit.Reciprocity means each permitholder is assured in writing of being accepted (under the current state's laws) by the other.Not only that, but "honor" can disappear in the stroke of a bureaucrat's pen but a reciprocity agreement has to be formally abrogated.Hope I got that nuanced just right since Gary Slider isn't about to pull up and set me straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:16 AM Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:16 AM Hope I got that nuanced just right since Gary Slider isn't about to pull up and set me straight. So how much is Gary responsible for that site, and how much is Steve Aikens responsible? I know Steve, but not Gary. And their site is my favorite "go-to" for carry information. Just think ... it won't be long until we have national "reciprocity." Maybe it will be "national honor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:21 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:21 AM I need to go to Iowa soon. too bad they wont issue anything for non residents I might have read it wrong, but as garand was pointing out on page one, is that there will be reciprocity involved? do i have that right?Not reciprocity, in the full legal sense, but they will honor all other states permits.The reading cited above indicates that this will include both resident and non-resident permits, so presumably your Florida ticket will be honored.Reciprocity might be described as a higher level of honoring, with equal rights being exchanged.Sounds funny that way.Yeah, thanks for that. I suspect this "reciprocity" versus "recognition" is a little confusing. Here is my take on it: Recognition is typically more inclusive. IA would be like IN and KY (among others) ... the broadest form of recognition. Those states recognize as valid ANY license issued by ANY state. Reciprocity is a bit more of a tit-for-tat game, and is more restrictive. Reciprocity means that state A honors state B's permit only if state B honors A's. The states enter into an "agreement of reciprocity." That is where you get into this language where "the Attorney General shall conduct a study of other state's laws, and finding them reasonably similar (eg. training requirements) he/she shall authorize an agreement of reciprocity with X state." Recognition isn't dependent upon in-kind recognition, while reciprocity is. Does that make sense? It does to me, and thank you all for the information. I learned something today as I had thought of reciprocity as recognition. Not sure why I picked it up that way, but now it's quite clear. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:21 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:21 AM I need to go to Iowa soon. too bad they wont issue anything for non residents They already issue to non-residents, just not very many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparcardave Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:38 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:38 AM Been hard to get a Iowa permit in the past. Nephew received it because he worked for a bank carrying notes and cash. Daughter and her boyfriend received their because of an attack by illegals. Soon hopefully I will be the the great state of _____ and will have that right. Should know before much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:40 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:40 AM In our original bill we made provision for the attorney general to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states. However, in the final version we were able to secure full recognition. All other states' permits and licenses to carry weapons will be valid in Iowa, with the exception that they will not funciton as a Permit to Acquire weapons as does the Iowa PTC (natch). This is a major policy reform, and has direct impact on many who may travel to and through my state. It appears that we will no longer offer a non-resident, non-professional permit, but non-residents who work in or for Iowa and whose duties require going armed may still apply for a professional permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherryriver Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:48 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:48 AM Doc, please keep posting. This is very enjoyable indeed for us Prairie Staters. Every sentence is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:58 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 12:58 AM yes, indeed! I don't often leave Illinois, but when I do it's usually Iowa that I travel to. Some very good riding in Iowa. Great job in getting shall issue - congratulations!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylok Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:53 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:53 AM Not to gush too much, but I don't think a day goes by that I don't learn something from the folks here on board. I always thought reciprocity and honor was one and of the same. Now I see the difference and why the two terms exist. Wouldn't it be advantagous for us to make our ccw as easy and enexpensive to acquire and have as many reciprocity agreements with other states as possible so that non residents would flock to us with their wallets open to get one of our permits? Especially now that PA won't be issuing permits accept when the applicant applies in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:36 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:36 AM Doc, please keep posting. This is very enjoyable indeed for us Prairie Staters. Every sentence is fun. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm just thrilled to be able to spread the good news. Every time I re-read the bill, I learn something new about it. I'll keep updating as I gain info, and I'll keep an eye on this thread to answer any other questions that arise. Won't be long before I'll be able to cross the bridges without stopping to unload and stow. I already have a may-issue permit from my county sheriff, but my indoor range is across the river in Moline. Maybe the coming McDonald decision will help y'all in the push to stop the IL government's infringement of our fundamental right to keep and BEAR arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:56 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:56 AM A bit off-topic, but I want to take a trip to LeClaire sometime this summer. I'm hoping to get a look see into Les Baer's shop down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldude Posted March 31, 2010 at 03:30 AM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 03:30 AM but my indoor range is across the river in Moline Dr. Feelgood; maybe we could meet up at SSU sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:14 PM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:14 PM Kinda sad that you know exactly which one I mean. We need more ranges, IMO. With the weather turning nice I'll do more of my shooting at Princeton, but I'll PM you next time I head to SSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Feelgood Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:45 PM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 01:45 PM Alright, I have a bleg, for those of you so motivated. I hadn't realized that the Assembly was planning to end their session so soon, and the governor will now have the opportunity to pocket veto our shall-issue bill. It's a small risk, but one that remains. Obviously we'd like him to sign it into law. Please take a moment to craft a polite, concise message to Iowa Governor Chet Culver urging his signing of SF 2379. It is a good reform that affects folks across the country and sends a positive message to our neighboring states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:25 PM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 02:25 PM An email has been sent and a phone call placed. Thanks, Doc. Office of the Governor & Lt. GovernorState Capitol 1007 East Grand Ave. Des Moines, Iowa 50319 Phone: 515.281.5211 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted March 31, 2010 at 03:28 PM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 03:28 PM Alright, I have a bleg, for those of you so motivated. I hadn't realized that the Assembly was planning to end their session so soon, and the governor will now have the opportunity to pocket veto our shall-issue bill. It's a small risk, but one that remains. Obviously we'd like him to sign it into law. Please take a moment to craft a polite, concise message to Iowa Governor Chet Culver urging his signing of SF 2379. It is a good reform that affects folks across the country and sends a positive message to our neighboring states. You can also use the Action Alert at IowaCarry to send a pre-formatted message. Email sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Matio Posted March 31, 2010 at 05:10 PM Share Posted March 31, 2010 at 05:10 PM You can also use the Action Alert at IowaCarry to send a pre-formatted message. Your Action Alert only works if your residence is Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.