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Moore/Shepard Ruling Announced


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#31 Lou

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

From The Tribune:
www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-us-appeals-court-strikes-down-states-concealedcarry-ban-20121211,0,7034171.story


chicagotribune.com

U.S. appeals court strikes down state's concealed-carry ban

By Ray Long
Tribune reporter
11:52 AM CST, December 11, 2012

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The state of Illinois would have to allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons under a federal appeals court ruling issued today, but the judges also gave lawmakers 180 days to put their own version of the law in place.

In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.

"We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside," the judges ruled.

"The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden.

"The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public."

Illinois is the only state in the nation not to have some form of conceal carry after Wisconsin recently approved law.

"The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.

The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window."


Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan's office is reading the just-issued opinion and is unable at this point to comment about the prospects of filing an appeal, a spokeswoman said.

rlong@tribune.com
Twitter @RayLong
Copyright © 2012 Chicago Tribune Company, LLC


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A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#32 bob

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

Should we be calling our reps and demanding they pass HB148 yet?

Something tells me that 148 was a lost "opportunity" for the opposition. We'll see though.

yep. unless "our" side gives away this golden opportunity.

complete state preemption on the entire field of regulation of arms!

no fingerprints.

a fee that covers the actual costs of administering the program. given that everyone who will be getting a LTC already has a FOID card, no additional costs will be incurred to do background checks.

I am ambivalent about training but as long as it is limited in scope and cost such as an NRA safety class, I might be inclined to accept the idea.

I think a sticker that gets added to your FOID card is adequate. and a notation on your FOID card after future renewals.

issuance of FOID cards and LTC to non-residents with reciprocity.

Edited by bob, 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM.

bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

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#33 Johnnybgood

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

A question. Would we be better off bringing out HB148 and get it passed to start since we have such support from all the police who helped craft it, then go after a loosening of restrictions/requirments? Or, should we craft a whole new bill going for what we want?

#34 Lou

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

Does Little Lisa still have the option of appealing to SCOTUS????? That was a question.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#35 Johnnybgood

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

OK, questioned answered in previous posts.

#36 FF17

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

Is this ruling a done deal, or can/will the state appeal to Supreme Court?

Edited by FF17, 11 December 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#37 KingWalleye

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

What great news! This, coupled with a bonus at work means a trip (outside of Cook Count) this weekend to get a new edc gun.

Hmmm, CM9, or LCR .357?

#38 mstrat

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

Should we be calling our reps and demanding they pass HB148 yet?

Something tells me that 148 was a lost "opportunity" for the opposition. We'll see though.

I'd be curious to hear Todd's informed opinion on this: If we had the legislative backing, couldn't we simply threaten to block the passage of any carry bills... effectively making FOID and unrestricted carry the law of the land in 180 days? :)
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#39 TyGuy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

Todd V said on Capitol Fax that 148 is no longer an option.

*wrings hands and grins* Excellent.
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#40 miztic

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:27 PM

Now Todd gets to copy&paste the FL law like he wanted :)

GarandFan, keep posting, they make good "sound bytes"

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Anywhere you are able to carry a pen you should be able to carry a sidearm.

They hate guns so much, they are willing to risk the lives of large crowds and children to feel better with their 'gun free' zones.


#41 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

I think we are going to see a revamped, BETTER HB148 passed. Anti gun types will come back later and try to "fix" it but I doubt Madigan has the political will or the time with so many other pressing issues in the legislature to come up with a carry bill of his own that would get the votes.

Remember, we were only 2 or 3 votes shy before of a freakin SHALL ISSUE bill. IF we put pressure on our reps and the like should a "may" issue bill come up then I think Madigan would struggle to pass it.


Now Todd gets to copy&paste the FL law like he wanted :)


Oh my god I would die of a heart attack if we got the Florida Carry law here in Illinois. I would freaking drop dead if I could walk into a gun show with my CC permit and CARRY OUT new firearms that same day....no more wasting lots of gas driving back and forth after waiting periods...


A cheap permit would be nice too. I have family in Ohio , who are gun people that do not CC. They just get by so spending $200-300 a person to get their permits is not an option. It would be nice if even the poorest of the poor here in Illinois, those who really need protection from the criminals could afford a CC bill.

Edited by Patriots & Tyrants, 11 December 2012 - 12:36 PM.


#42 TyGuy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

...making FOID and unrestricted carry the law of the land in 180 days? :)


THAT is my hope, but I still think we'll see some permitting scheme. Either way, a HUGE win for us today.
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#43 Len S

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

Yes I believe the state can appeal and yes I want to hear from Todd
Air goes in and out
Blood goes round and round
Any deviation of the above is a bad thing.

Class motto in Paramedic class 1994

#44 jobes

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:32 PM

The years of everyone working so hard has paid off! The "good guys" always win and we did!!

#45 ChicagoSigFan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Just saw the ruling. Big win for us. Congrats to all whose tireless efforts made this victory possible.

On a side note, Chicago had their new ordinance ready basically within a day of the McDonald ruling. Anyone think that the state will move that fast? Or will they have their answer on the 180th day after today?

#46 Lou

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Yes I believe the state can appeal and yes I want to hear from Todd


From the Tribune article:


"The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.

The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window."


People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#47 Onytay

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

Todd were are you!!!!! I know your busy just cant wait to hear what your thoughts are

#48 Jonnie Knuckles

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:34 PM

I want to go shopping for a new carry gun and some supporting equipment! Merry Christmas to Illinois Carry!

"God creates all men equal... Once out of the womb, he starts playing favorites..."

"Sic vis pacem para bellum."
- If you want peace, prepare for war.


#49 AlphaKoncepts aka CGS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

Finally some good news! That's what we've all been waiting for (for months).

Now to see what's next, because this isn't the end.

-Thomas

Member, ISRA; Life Member, NRA; NRA Certified Instructor, AGI Certified Gunsmith, Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor
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#50 kurt555gs

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

I hope OPEN CARRY is not traded away.
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#51 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

I hope OPEN CARRY is not traded away.


+1

Would be nice to OC in the summer. I was up in Walworth Co. WI this summer and saw some people OCing. No one made a big deal out of it, no blood was shed. That could some day be you or I open carrying in downtown Chicago much to the ire of the Mayor and Madigan!



I want to go shopping for a new carry gun and some supporting equipment! Merry Christmas to Illinois Carry!


Just ordered a couple of N82 tactical holsters, one for my P226 and one for my M&P Shield.
Need to pick up a Caracal; wish I had while I could have over the summer. Going to be hard as heck to find CC sized guns now!

Edited by Patriots & Tyrants, 11 December 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#52 Len S

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:38 PM

Thanks Lou!
Air goes in and out
Blood goes round and round
Any deviation of the above is a bad thing.

Class motto in Paramedic class 1994

#53 vstar

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

Forgive my ignorance but will some type of Carry be in place within 180 days with this judgement or can this still be stretched out due to appeal?

#54 vess1

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

heck YEAH!!! Love this news. All the work paid off. Wow. Congrats everyone! I just dropped my new NRA membership off in the mail last night. Now maybe it can be spent on more progress. Lol

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#55 Frank

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

The Supreme
Court has decided that the amendment confers
a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as
important outside the home as inside


Illinois has lots of options for protecting its people
from being shot without having to eliminate
all possibility of armed self-defense in public.


Anyway the Supreme Court made clear
in Heller that it wasn’t going to make the right to bear
arms depend on casualty counts. 554 U.S. at 636.
If the mere possibility that allowing guns to be carried
in public would increase the crime or death rates
sufficed to justify a ban, Heller would have been
decided the other way, for that possibility was as great
in the District of Columbia as it is in Illinois.


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"The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside." -Moore v. Madigan, 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, December 11, 2012


#56 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

Forgive my ignorance but will some type of Carry be in place within 180 days with this judgement or can this still be stretched out due to appeal?


Could still be appealed to SCOTUS, would stretch it out maybe another year or two tops? But Illinois would lose and other anti gun states like California and NY would be royally screwed by the ruling.

#57 Jason4567

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

Wow, a great day ladies and gentlemen. A great day indeed!

IS YOUR RIFLE A GRENADE LAUNCHER? YES NO

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#58 Frank

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

FYI: 180 days from today is June 9th, 2013.

Edited by frankw438, 11 December 2012 - 12:42 PM.

NRA Life Member - NRA Basic Pistol Instructor - NRA PPIH Instructor - NRA PPOH Instructor - USPSA Range Officer - IL Firearms Concealed Carry Instructor - ITWT Club Member #438

"The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside." -Moore v. Madigan, 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, December 11, 2012


#59 Bud

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

We need to get behind Todd, the ISRA and Illinois Carry and start pushing right now.

Everyone needs to call their legislators and make sure they know that you support concealed carry in Illinois.

once the language of a Bill is finalized and pushed by Todd, the ISRA and Illinois Carry we need to get behind them and help push this through.

No more squabbling, we have the momentum and we can get this done if we all push together.

If you are on other forums, invite Illinois residents to join Illinois Carry and help us to get this done.
Bud
 
 
Winter is coming
and the White Walkers are already attacking the cities



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#60 scough

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

Amen!

Forgive my ignorance but will some type of Carry be in place within 180 days with this judgement or can this still be stretched out due to appeal?


I think based on the wording, even if they appeal, they still have to comply. Now the question becomes, do they merely have to legislate a CCW law within 180 days, that could conceivably provide additional time for the state to develop training requirements and infrastructure? That could string things out for another year. I sure hope not. However, based on Todd's remark in the press, I think all of the failed deals are going out the window, so I hope things don't get tied up. I can't wait to read Todd's synopsis on what the future holds.




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