198 replies to this topic

[GTX63]

 

Keep an eye on the whole gay marriage issue as if they rule on the full faith and credit clause applies, it willmget real interesting on carry licenses

 

... and the case gets taken all the way to SCOTUS. Then, I begin wondering why that case didn't become our test case.

 

I think you know why. The most effective democrats are forward thinkers.

[press1280]

A great victory but I've learned that whatever happens in the District Court ends up being irrelevant, especially with a state that has no interest in complying. I'm sure they'll appeal, and the 3 judge panel chosen in the DC Circuit will be crucial. We'll see if Henderson is on YET another 2A case panel; she has basically been on every panel (including Heller before it got to SCOTUS) and ruled against us EVERY TIME. She is an anti, through and through.

[skinnyb82]

CADC stayed the injunction Sent from my VK700 using Tapatalk

[skinnyb82]

CADC just held that Scullin did not have the jurisdictional authority to preside over Wrenn. Roberts only designated him to preside over Palmer and Roberts didn't act on Gura's letter for a retroactive designation. Case is remanded down to the district, new judge will be assigned, re-litigate the entire cade. The panel had no choice but to take this action. From the opinion.... "We realize that we are undoing the work of litigation to date, but we have no choice. As the Supreme Court noted in Frad, an order entered by a judge without jurisdiction is 'null.' Of course in Frad, the Supreme Court caused the undoing of litigation which had gone far beyond the stage we address today. Similarly, in United States v. American-Foreign Steamship, 363 U.S. 685 (1960), the Supreme Court vacated an en banc decision of a court of appeals when a senior judge sat with the en banc court, in violation of the statute. There, as here, no party challenged the judge’s authority until after the decision issued. Nonetheless, because the mere participation of one of a group of judges was beyond the statutory limits of that judge’s authority, the judgment was undone. Id. at 691. CONCLUSION We have no choice but to vacate the order entered, as it was beyond the jurisdiction of the issuing judge." Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Talonap]

So, this is a bad thing, correct?

[Trevis]

So, this is a bad thing, correct?

That depends entirely on who is retrying the case

[defaultdotxbe]

So, this is a bad thing, correct?

That depends entirely on who is retrying the case

Was the ruling that was vacated a good one or a bad one? If it was a favorable ruling I'd say this is a bad thing

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[skinnyb82]

It was favorable but Gura never got Chief Justice Robets' to issue an order designating Scullin to preside over the case. He's out of...I think SDNY, not DCD so he cannot preside over a case in another district unless the Circuit Justice for the district in question (Roberts is the Circuit Justice for CADC/DCD) designates said judge, any orders issued are null and void. This is entirely procedural. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[bmyers]

So does this mean that the plaintiff gets all his money back that he spent on court fees and such since the courts screwed up?

[press1280]

Other than wasting more time and money, this doesn't mean much IMO. The decision will be appealed regardless. Hopefully, when it gets back to the DC Circuit we'll get the same panel.

[skinnyb82]

I doubt Plaintiffs are footing the bill for this lawsuit since Gura is repping them. More likely than not, SAF is covering the costs. And as far as the panel goes, during orals Senior Judge Silbermann eviscerated D.C. on the merits, but he recognized the procedural error. Senior Judges Silbermann and Sentelle, along with Circuit Judge Pillard who were on the panel. Sentelle was replaced by Wilkins when he took senior status. Wilkins is one of Obama's nominees that Harry Reid had to ram through by changing Senate Rules. He's also completely responsible for the whole "driving while black" thing since he was stopped by some white cop in Maryland, accused him of racial profiling. Filed a lawsuit, blah blah. Pillard is a pleasant surprise given that she's part of the group of Obama nominees that Reid had to ram through confirmation. She's sided with the majority in a couple gun cases. One involving EPA regulation of lead bullets...as in the agency is statutorily barred from regulating ammunition. Likelihood that a second Wrenn appeal will draw a 2A friendly panel is about 50/50 so I'm hoping Judge Silbermann survives long enough to hear this case again. Yeah, he's up there in age. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Edited by skinnyb82, 19 December 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[GWBH]

I tweeted Emily Miller about the handgun registration requirement. Her interpretation is that non-residents ARE required to register in the District.

Somebody help me out here - I thought part of the GCA of 1968 prohibited a "registration" of firearms?

[defaultdotxbe]

I tweeted Emily Miller about the handgun registration requirement. Her interpretation is that non-residents ARE required to register in the District.


Somebody help me out here - I thought part of the GCA of 1968 prohibited a "registration" of firearms?

It's the FOPA of 1986 that prohibits national registration, but not municipal registration so it may be a loophole.


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[kwc]

NICS may not be used to establish any type of registration scheme. However, there is no Federal prohibition codified in statute that prohibits registration at the state or local level.

[Talonap]

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

[defaultdotxbe]

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

Considering both DC and Chicago implemented handgun registration following the rulings I would say there was not lol

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[Talonap]

 

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

Considering both DC and Chicago implemented handgun registration following the rulings I would say there was not lol

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Of course we know that they would never do anything they knew was illegal ...

[defaultdotxbe]

 

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

Considering both DC and Chicago implemented handgun registration following the rulings I would say there was not lol
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Of course we know that they would never do anything they knew was illegal ...

Well I don't think they'd do anything quite that blatant, but more to the point I don't think the NRA/SAF/ISRA/etc would have let them get away with it without filing more lawsuits

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[firepiper]

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

No, but there is something in the FOPA that spells out a restriction...(from the FOPA wiki page).....

Seems to forbid registration on the federal level....and you would think the whole federal supersedes state supersedes local would apply, buuuut.....
 

The Act also forbade the U.S. Government agency from keeping a registry directly linking non-National Firearms Act firearms to their owners, the specific language of this law (Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 926 (http://www.law.corne...ode/text/18/926) being:
 

No such rule or regulation prescribed [by the Attorney General] after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

 

Nevertheless, the ATF Firearms Tracing System (FTS) contains hundreds of millions of firearm tracing and registration records, and consists of several databases:
 

1. Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 - a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address - increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.^[12]

2. Suspect Guns. All guns suspected of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples^{[citation needed]}), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere.^{[citation needed]} Reported as 34,807 in 2010.^[12]

3. Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception.^[12] This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.

4. Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form - in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968.^[13]

5. Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010.^[12] Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional).^[12] Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported.^{[citation needed]}

Edited by firepiper, 20 December 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[lockman]

I tweeted Emily Miller about the handgun registration requirement. Her interpretation is that non-residents ARE required to register in the District.


Somebody help me out here - I thought part of the GCA of 1968 prohibited a "registration" of firearms?

DC is under the direct purview of Congress. It would be considered a federal municipality.

[defaultdotxbe]

No, but there is something in the FOPA that spells out a restriction...(from the FOPA wiki page)..... Seems to forbid registration on the federal level....and you would think the whole federal supersedes state supersedes local would apply, buuuut.....

Consequences of the 10th amendment, powers denied to the federal government are not necessarily denied to the states Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Talonap]

 

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

Considering both DC and Chicago implemented handgun registration following the rulings I would say there was not lol

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Didn't Chicago stop their handgun registration?

Edited by Talonap, 21 December 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[defaultdotxbe]

 

Wasn't there something about municipalities and no registration in Heller or McDonald?

Considering both DC and Chicago implemented handgun registration following the rulings I would say there was not lol
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Didn't Chicago stop their handgun registration?

After the FCCA prohibited it, yes

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[borgranta]

I tweeted Emily Miller about the handgun registration requirement. Her interpretation is that non-residents ARE required to register in the District.


Somebody help me out here - I thought part of the GCA of 1968 prohibited a "registration" of firearms?

DC is under the direct purview of Congress. It would be considered a federal municipality.

If it is a federal municipality that would mean that the registration is an illegal federal registration.

[skinnyb82]

In Haynes v. US, the Supreme Court effectively ruled that state gun registration schemes are unconstitutional as they violate the Fifth Amendment's Self-Incrimination Clause. Well, unless criminals are exempted from registration requirements. The reasoning is that criminals must register their illegally possessed firearms, which is an explicit acknowledgement of criminal acts. Requiring one to incriminate oneself to comply with the law in question is unconstitutional. Sent from my VK700 using Tapatalk

[borgranta]

In Haynes v. US, the Supreme Court effectively ruled that state gun registration schemes are unconstitutional as they violate the Fifth Amendment's Self-Incrimination Clause. Well, unless criminals are exempted from registration requirements. The reasoning is that criminals must register their illegally possessed firearms, which is an explicit acknowledgement of criminal acts. Requiring one to incriminate oneself to comply with the law in question is unconstitutional.

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requiring law abiding citizens to register while not requiring criminals to do the same is a violation of equal protection and therefore equally unconstitutional.

[skinnyb82]

Plenty of case law, even a doctrine ("Unconstitutional Conditions") explicitly stating that the government may not mandate a citizen forgo/surrender a protected right as a condition to exercise another right. The government cannot make law that requires citizens to forfeit their Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment rights as a condition to exercise any other right. The case law compiled only really applies to the First Amendment (e.g. privacy, free speech, free exercise, etc) but...there's a first time for everything. Throw the gun-grabbing catch-all asinine "we can do this...public safety" argument in there and you'll get a completely different result. Strictly speaking, the government cannot...do exactly what it has been doing. Such as...well let's just say that I would pay good money to see a valid argument as to why NFA items are so incredibly dangerous since that IIIRC since the NFA was enacted, only two murders have been committed with NFA items, both perpetrated by LEOs. That goes against every single argument put forth against private citizens with RTC, antis arguing that "cops are the only ones who are responsible...." (see the anti-gun sheriff who ND'd into his hand while "cleaning" his gun, clearly didn't learn to ALWAYS check, clear the chamber before pulling the trigger to take down his Glock or whatever he had) and the public safety, dangerous and unusual argument put forth by antis who support the tight regs on NFA items. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[chislinger]

How do we get the next POTUS to appoint skinnyb82 to federal judge?

[GTX63]

Compliment him on his hair.

[FarmHand357]

Compliment him on his hair.

 

Heheh!