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The NRA and Russia


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#1 bmurph44

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:08 AM

Red flags everywhere, time for new leadership and direction.

#2 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:22 AM

It’s a distraction and a low blow attack. Look at its opponent (Everytown and March for Our Lives). You telling me that the money raised at these events didn’t go back into Everytown’s pockets? Posted in my other thread, but relevant here as well

https://act.everytow...r-lives-events/

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So they are getting $$ from all over the world to help dismanlte the 2nd amendment, including our buddies in Vietnam, a full blown commie state

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The media is making the NRA story big. It’s a nothingburger

#3 Raw Power

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:31 AM

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.

 

 

The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.



#4 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 07:37 AM

It’s just democrats doing what they do best: seeing a crumb, exploding it, while they are doing it 10 times worse themselves

#5 ScottFM

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:06 AM

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.

 

 

The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

You are right, it is not a "nothingburger" at all. I've been reading the indictment and it is chilling! This was an attack on American Democracy and it appears that the NRA was complicit or at the very least dupped! 


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Beer, it's the reason I get out of bed every afternoon!

 

 


#6 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:33 AM

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#7 2smartby1/2

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:34 AM

This is big...especially after the summit presser. 

 

I don't even know where this rabbit hole will go. 



#8 2smartby1/2

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 10:37 AM

https://www.politico...closures-690200

 

I mean...really?  So now donors do not need to be disclosed?  



#9 chislinger

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:16 AM

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.
 
 
The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

Citizens United simply affirmed that the 1st Amendment is still in force. Free speech is a good thing.

Edited by chislinger, 17 July 2018 - 11:17 AM.

"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams

#10 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 11:23 AM

Anyone ever think, for just a minute, that foreign countries reach out to the NRA for advice? Here

https://www.nraila.o...ional-amendment

Exactly two weeks after the Czech Republic announced that they would challenge restrictive changes to the European Union’s European Firearms Directive in the European Court of Justice, the small nation has once again acted to defend themselves against transnational gun controllers. On June 28, the Czech Chamber of Deputies (the lower house of the Czech Parliament) approved a constitutional amendment to protect Czech citizens’ right to possess firearms and ammunition, with a reported 139 of 200 deputies voting in favor.

Specifically, the proposed constitutional amendment ensures that Czech citizens have a right to keep and bear arms in order to participate in preserving national security........

Under Czech legislative procedure, the proposed constitutional amendment now moves to the Senate, where a three-fifth’s majority is required for passage. Should the amendment pass the Senate, it will then go to Czech President Milos Zeman for his consideration. In July 2016, Zeman expressed his support for civilian gun ownership as a means of combatting violent extremism.

NRA-ILA will continue to follow the Czechs in their struggle to preserve their rights and inform U.S. gun owners of any new developments.


OMG!!!! The NRA is colluding with the Czech Republic! How dare other countries and organizations in them want to have a right to bear arms!

#11 Raw Power

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:27 PM

 

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.
 
 
The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

Citizens United simply affirmed that the 1st Amendment is still in force. Free speech is a good thing.

 

 

No, money is not speech.

 

Money is bribes for politicians to vote the way someone with money wants.

Trump promised to drain the swamp. This IS the swamp.



#12 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 12:37 PM

Typical of the left-create fake news to draw people in

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http://www.foxnews.c...impression=true

Mic reporter Emily Singer has apologized after mistakenly claiming Tuesday that alleged Russian agent Maria Butina was among a group photographed in the Oval Office in 2017. The woman in the photo turned out to be a National Security Council staffer.



#13 chicagoresident

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 04:28 PM

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.
 
 
The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

Not only dark money in but dark goods out.

How great would it be for the Russian small arms industry to begin American exports again through the striking down of a single Bush era executive action?

It's a good deal for those of us that want a real ak74. It's an even bigger deal for one of the biggest global arms resellers, the CIA. If you think this is tinfoil name one administration that hasn't been caught gun running red handed.

People ask questions when sanitized AR15's show up in places they aren't supposed to, but nobody bat's an eye when it's a sanitized Ak47.
https://www.nytimes....icials-say.html

The theft and resale of the arms including Kalashnikov assault rifles, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades have led to a flood of new weapons available on the black arms market.

The CIA can't get around import bans without attracting attention so they broker purchases of torch cut cold war hardware (IE parts kits) through mainstream consumer import and remanufacturing companies then rebuy and resell or give to other places in the world. https://wikileaks.or...MALA1013_a.html

Imagine how much easier it would be for the CIA to have an unlimited supply of brand new Russian military hardware along with the plausible deniability because Russia does the same thing.

Just a theory, but given past history of all parties involved it checks out.

Edited by chicagoresident, 17 July 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#14 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:03 PM

^^^
God how I would love for Saiga’s to be imported again!

#15 Draal

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 05:44 PM

Anyone ever think, for just a minute, that foreign countries reach out to the NRA for advice? Here

https://www.nraila.o...ional-amendment
 

Exactly two weeks after the Czech Republic announced that they would challenge restrictive changes to the European Union’s European Firearms Directive in the European Court of Justice, the small nation has once again acted to defend themselves against transnational gun controllers. On June 28, the Czech Chamber of Deputies (the lower house of the Czech Parliament) approved a constitutional amendment to protect Czech citizens’ right to possess firearms and ammunition, with a reported 139 of 200 deputies voting in favor.

Specifically, the proposed constitutional amendment ensures that Czech citizens have a right to keep and bear arms in order to participate in preserving national security........

Under Czech legislative procedure, the proposed constitutional amendment now moves to the Senate, where a three-fifth’s majority is required for passage. Should the amendment pass the Senate, it will then go to Czech President Milos Zeman for his consideration. In July 2016, Zeman expressed his support for civilian gun ownership as a means of combatting violent extremism.

NRA-ILA will continue to follow the Czechs in their struggle to preserve their rights and inform U.S. gun owners of any new developments.


OMG!!!! The NRA is colluding with the Czech Republic! How dare other countries and organizations in them want to have a right to bear arms!

 

LOL!  Looks like the sky isn't falling after all...



#16 steveTA1983

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Posted 17 July 2018 - 06:24 PM

Anyone ever think, for just a minute, that foreign countries reach out to the NRA for advice? Herehttps://www.nraila.o...ional-amendment
 

Exactly two weeks after the Czech Republic announced that they would challenge restrictive changes to the European Union’s European Firearms Directive in the European Court of Justice, the small nation has once again acted to defend themselves against transnational gun controllers. On June 28, the Czech Chamber of Deputies (the lower house of the Czech Parliament) approved a constitutional amendment to protect Czech citizens’ right to possess firearms and ammunition, with a reported 139 of 200 deputies voting in favor.
Specifically, the proposed constitutional amendment ensures that Czech citizens have a right to keep and bear arms in order to participate in preserving national security........Under Czech legislative procedure, the proposed constitutional amendment now moves to the Senate, where a three-fifth’s majority is required for passage. Should the amendment pass the Senate, it will then go to Czech President Milos Zeman for his consideration. In July 2016, Zeman expressed his support for civilian gun ownership as a means of combatting violent extremism.
NRA-ILA will continue to follow the Czechs in their struggle to preserve their rights and inform U.S. gun owners of any new developments.


OMG!!!! The NRA is colluding with the Czech Republic! How dare other countries and organizations in them want to have a right to bear arms!
LOL!  Looks like the sky isn't falling after all...
Eastern Europe is the only sane part of Europe. That’s what happens when you live under communism for 45 years and you finally break free. And now with the EU telling them “nope, you can’t have guns”, many Eastern European nations are telling Brussels to p*ss off. If Russian pro-gun organizations were working with the NRA (for example) to learn about them and get advice, why would we not be ok with that? Who really knows what it’s all about. We’ll get the truth sooner or later

#17 Raw Power

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 09:49 PM

^^^
God how I would love for Saiga’s to be imported again!

 

Screw a Saiga, I'd be up for a VSS Vintorez. Let's get the hearing protection act passed already.



#18 ljnowel

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:48 AM


 

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.
 
 
The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

Citizens United simply affirmed that the 1st Amendment is still in force. Free speech is a good thing.
 


 
No, money is not speech.
 
Money is bribes for politicians to vote the way someone with money wants.

Trump promised to drain the swamp. This IS the swamp.

money is speech, and corporations are people. The Supreme Court has decided that.

#19 2A4Cook

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:21 AM

Now, THIS crap is really crazy! The only reason the Russian government would want to "infiltrate" the NRA would be to disarm Americans. Americans' culture of marksmanship, self-defense and gun ownership would make for a weaker America, an America less able to defend itself against foreign aggressors. THAT is in Russia's interests; not propping up the NRA. Now, this so-called "spy" story. This is some goofy girl that is lone-gunning wanting to be a female 007 in her fantasy world, and Russian intelligence apparatchiks are indulging her because, hey, if it causes crap for the U.S., why stop her?

This is in the same vein as that Russia wouldn't prefer someone who wants to cripple to U.S. energy industry, and whom they have already bribed to get their hands on 20% of our uranium -- to make nukes to point at us -- as U.S. President, over someone who wants to expand our energy industry and export energy to Europe, cutting Putin's throat economically. Russian leaders use policy and tactics to promote Russian interests, as opposed to certain Americans who use their positions to cripple America for personal gain (Shrillary) or to advance their leftist agenda (the Messiah). CNN and MSNBC are great at brainwashing mindless lemmings.

Edited by 2A4Cook, 19 July 2018 - 04:24 AM.


#20 chicagoresident

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 07:59 AM

Now, THIS crap is really crazy! The only reason the Russian government would want to "infiltrate" the NRA would be to disarm Americans. Americans' culture of marksmanship, self-defense and gun ownership would make for a weaker America, an America less able to defend itself against foreign aggressors. THAT is in Russia's interests; not propping up the NRA. Now, this so-called "spy" story. This is some goofy girl that is lone-gunning wanting to be a female 007 in her fantasy world, and Russian intelligence apparatchiks are indulging her because, hey, if it causes crap for the U.S., why stop her?
This is in the same vein as that Russia wouldn't prefer someone who wants to cripple to U.S. energy industry, and whom they have already bribed to get their hands on 20% of our uranium -- to make nukes to point at us -- as U.S. President, over someone who wants to expand our energy industry and export energy to Europe, cutting Putin's throat economically. Russian leaders use policy and tactics to promote Russian interests, as opposed to certain Americans who use their positions to cripple America for personal gain (Shrillary) or to advance their leftist agenda (the Messiah). CNN and MSNBC are great at brainwashing mindless lemmings.

Really, the NRA thing and Uranium one is all about lifting sanctions and Russian company's ability to do business in the US. The misnomer about the Uranium one deal is none of that Uranium is going back to Russia directly (not saying it couldn't happen through intermediaries, but Russia has access to plenty of Uranium).

It's being sold to other 3rd parties. If anything it's done for profits and to raise energy prices.

Russia doesn't want to see the outright collapse of the US, they just want to do more business here.

I say "Russia" rather then naming specific businesses, if you're an oligarch in Russia its because your close to Putin. Otherwise he'll take your wealth and put you in jail. When the Soviet Union fell all the government controlled conpanies were divided up among the old Soviet elites.
Source from the left
https://www.nytimes....rump-tower.html
http://thehill.com/p...russian-nuclear
Source from the right
http://alt-right.com...edia-narrative/

You will never see indictment of Trump or his people (maybe a pardon for low level offenses). It's the same reason the Clinton people like Bill, Hillary, or Podesta (brothers with Tony Podesta, Manafort's business partner) won't get indicted.

Almost all major foreign countries are invested heavily in our media, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Isreal, the EU countries, and major global corporate leaders. The bias in media is made to sell you something.

The swamp will never be drained, it's too lucrative. The left VS right divide is just people shilling for business interests that don't necessarily benefit them. Personally I make good money the way it is, I just don't want to see the collapse of our financial system because people got too greedy.

Edited by chicagoresident, 19 July 2018 - 08:30 AM.


#21 chislinger

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:34 AM

 

It's not a "nothingburger". There are too many un-connected sources for there to be nothing to it.
 
 
The problem isn't just with the NRA though, this kind of dark money is coming into all sorts of campaigns, from all sorts of places. I don't believe it's ONLY the NRA getting money from forces outside of the US. Citizens United opened the floodgates for this kind of thing to happen, and that was a huge mistake, and these are the consequences of it.

Citizens United simply affirmed that the 1st Amendment is still in force. Free speech is a good thing.
 
 
No, money is not speech.
 
Money is bribes for politicians to vote the way someone with money wants.
Trump promised to drain the swamp. This IS the swamp.
Money is and always has been speech. A big part of why freedom of the press is in the 1A is because printing press were being taxed and licensed to limit speech. Would you support a law that says you can't spend more than $10 a year on firearms and ammo on the grounds that money isn't a firearm and therefore no 2A violation?

Edited by chislinger, 19 July 2018 - 09:34 AM.

"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams

#22 Archondan

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:19 AM

Money is and always has been speech. A big part of why freedom of the press is in the 1A is because printing press were being taxed and licensed to limit speech. Would you support a law that says you can't spend more than $10 a year on firearms and ammo on the grounds that money isn't a firearm and therefore no 2A violation?

 

 

I think another way to look at is money is about control and power which is exerted over all forms of speech.



#23 chislinger

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:36 AM

Money is and always has been speech. A big part of why freedom of the press is in the 1A is because printing press were being taxed and licensed to limit speech. Would you support a law that says you can't spend more than $10 a year on firearms and ammo on the grounds that money isn't a firearm and therefore no 2A violation?

 
 
I think another way to look at is money is about control and power which is exerted over all forms of speech.
The bottom line is that Congress tried to limit political speech by limiting the money that could be spent on it. Under the rules that were found unconstitutional billionaires could spend unlimited funds, and so could political parties and politicians. If people who weren't rich wanted to amplify their political opinions by pooling their money together (AKA "forming a corporation") they were limited to just $50K.

The law was designed to give the very wealthy and the politicians a monopoly on political speech in the critical period before an election, thus cementing their power. It scares the heck out of me thst 4 justices went along with this scheme as well as a whole bunch of citizens ski reallyt have no understanding of what the case was about. It had nothing to do with campaign donations, and it didn't declare that corporations were people. It affirmed the 1st Amendment right to freedom of speech, and the right of ordinary citizens to pool their money together to counter the outsized influence of the political parties and the ultra-rich.

Best in mind the genesis of the lawsuit was when the government banned s movie from being distributed because it had political content. Is that really what the opponents of the ruling wanted, giving the government the power to censor movies, books, television, radio, the internet, newspapers, etc. based on political content?

Edited by chislinger, 19 July 2018 - 11:37 AM.

"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams

#24 Archondan

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 12:33 PM

I agree with you, it was a bad decision that was used to cerement the power based of the wealthy and further their ability to drown out the power of the people.



#25 chislinger

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:34 PM

I agree with you, it was a bad decision that was used to cerement the power based of the wealthy and further their ability to drown out the power of the people.

I don't think you understood my post at all. It was the right decision and restored power to the people.

Edited by chislinger, 19 July 2018 - 01:34 PM.

"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams

#26 2smartby1/2

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

Now, THIS crap is really crazy! The only reason the Russian government would want to "infiltrate" the NRA would be to disarm Americans. Americans' culture of marksmanship, self-defense and gun ownership would make for a weaker America, an America less able to defend itself against foreign aggressors. THAT is in Russia's interests; not propping up the NRA. Now, this so-called "spy" story. This is some goofy girl that is lone-gunning wanting to be a female 007 in her fantasy world, and Russian intelligence apparatchiks are indulging her because, hey, if it causes crap for the U.S., why stop her?

This is in the same vein as that Russia wouldn't prefer someone who wants to cripple to U.S. energy industry, and whom they have already bribed to get their hands on 20% of our uranium -- to make nukes to point at us -- as U.S. President, over someone who wants to expand our energy industry and export energy to Europe, cutting Putin's throat economically. Russian leaders use policy and tactics to promote Russian interests, as opposed to certain Americans who use their positions to cripple America for personal gain (Shrillary) or to advance their leftist agenda (the Messiah). CNN and MSNBC are great at brainwashing mindless lemmings.

Did you read it?

The Russians wanted to infiltrate and influence politics and decisions.  She said that the easiest path was through of all places, the NRA. 

Then again, think about how much the NRA has changed over the last 50 years (especially the last 25 or so). 

 

Russia wants to crumble America from within without ever having to fire a shot.  Have all Americans shoot each other (or themselves) instead. 



#27 Archondan

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:54 PM

 

I agree with you, it was a bad decision that was used to cerement the power based of the wealthy and further their ability to drown out the power of the people.

I don't think you understood my post at all. It was the right decision and restored power to the people.

 

 

 

You're right I did read that wrong.



#28 steveTA1983

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:29 PM

Now, THIS crap is really crazy! The only reason the Russian government would want to "infiltrate" the NRA would be to disarm Americans. Americans' culture of marksmanship, self-defense and gun ownership would make for a weaker America, an America less able to defend itself against foreign aggressors. THAT is in Russia's interests; not propping up the NRA. Now, this so-called "spy" story. This is some goofy girl that is lone-gunning wanting to be a female 007 in her fantasy world, and Russian intelligence apparatchiks are indulging her because, hey, if it causes crap for the U.S., why stop her?
This is in the same vein as that Russia wouldn't prefer someone who wants to cripple to U.S. energy industry, and whom they have already bribed to get their hands on 20% of our uranium -- to make nukes to point at us -- as U.S. President, over someone who wants to expand our energy industry and export energy to Europe, cutting Putin's throat economically. Russian leaders use policy and tactics to promote Russian interests, as opposed to certain Americans who use their positions to cripple America for personal gain (Shrillary) or to advance their leftist agenda (the Messiah). CNN and MSNBC are great at brainwashing mindless lemmings.

Did you read it?
The Russians wanted to infiltrate and influence politics and decisions.  She said that the easiest path was through of all places, the NRA. 
Then again, think about how much the NRA has changed over the last 50 years (especially the last 25 or so). 
 
Russia wants to crumble America from within without ever having to fire a shot.  Have all Americans shoot each other (or themselves) instead.
That is something an infiltrator would say........

Not accusing, but thats what the left thinks

Edited by steveTA1983, 19 July 2018 - 08:33 PM.


#29 chicagoresident

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:50 PM

Liberals have all the sudden started living in a cold war fantasy about the threat of Russia on America. It's so backwards if you think about it. The cold War was about gaining allies/territory through spreading/forcing the communist ideology. Yet the Obama era CIA director (who accused Trump of treason) voted for a communist, Bernie Sanders and their new darling candidate Alexandria Ocasio-cortez are both socialists.
https://www.cnn.com/...vote/index.html

They literally don't even believe the lies out of their own mouths, but they expect you to.

Russia has 2 goals, to get sanctions lifted and to delegitimize our elections to make Putin look like a democratically elected official (to argue for sanctions to be lifted). They don't want to see the death of America, they want to see some American cash. And like every other company and country they know you gotta spend money on the government to make money in America.

Edited by chicagoresident, 19 July 2018 - 08:52 PM.


#30 2smartby1/2

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 08:32 AM

 

 

Now, THIS crap is really crazy! The only reason the Russian government would want to "infiltrate" the NRA would be to disarm Americans. Americans' culture of marksmanship, self-defense and gun ownership would make for a weaker America, an America less able to defend itself against foreign aggressors. THAT is in Russia's interests; not propping up the NRA. Now, this so-called "spy" story. This is some goofy girl that is lone-gunning wanting to be a female 007 in her fantasy world, and Russian intelligence apparatchiks are indulging her because, hey, if it causes crap for the U.S., why stop her?
This is in the same vein as that Russia wouldn't prefer someone who wants to cripple to U.S. energy industry, and whom they have already bribed to get their hands on 20% of our uranium -- to make nukes to point at us -- as U.S. President, over someone who wants to expand our energy industry and export energy to Europe, cutting Putin's throat economically. Russian leaders use policy and tactics to promote Russian interests, as opposed to certain Americans who use their positions to cripple America for personal gain (Shrillary) or to advance their leftist agenda (the Messiah). CNN and MSNBC are great at brainwashing mindless lemmings.

Did you read it?
The Russians wanted to infiltrate and influence politics and decisions.  She said that the easiest path was through of all places, the NRA. 
Then again, think about how much the NRA has changed over the last 50 years (especially the last 25 or so). 
 
Russia wants to crumble America from within without ever having to fire a shot.  Have all Americans shoot each other (or themselves) instead.
That is something an infiltrator would say........

Not accusing, but thats what the left thinks

 

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.  Based on the context, I can only infer that you assume I'm an "infiltrator." 

What exactly is there to infiltrate?  I know what the definition is, but context seems off.

 

Infiltrator: to move into (an organization, country, territory, or the like) surreptitiously and gradually, especially with hostile intent: The troops infiltrated the enemy lines.
 

 Before I respond, I want to make sure I'm not mis-reading your post. 






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