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9mm Carbine or Bullpup


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#1 TRJ

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:06 AM

I started thinking about getting a 9mm carbine/ bullpup when the whole M855 deal started. I figured if it successfully led to the banning of rifle ammo down the road it would be nice to have something a little better than a handgun around one of those "what if" scenarios we sometimes discuss came to be.

So I was thinking 9mm Tavor. Maybe a 9mm AR, but I like the shorter Tavor. I'm not really considering an AR pistol because I expect the ATF isn't done regulating and rulemaking. While it may begin life as a range toy, the day could come where it's a go to gun.

I'm aware of the short comings of pistol caliber rifles. That's not what this is about. What would you pick? If you have experience, which ones work without jams?

#2 Elmer Fudd

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:08 AM

Screen%20Shot%202015-03-20%20at%2012.32.Sg MPX .Permit me to present the FNH SCAR PDW

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-03-20%20at%2012.09.

 

Just a bit more:

 

 


Edited by Elmer Fudd, 20 March 2015 - 11:34 AM.


#3 TRJ

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:09 AM

SIg MPX hands down...


I want one with a can, but Illinois.

#4 bmyers

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:23 AM

The 9mm Tavor is going to run you over $1,800 range. I enjoy shooting the Tavor. Uses Tavor magazines.

 

The JRC (Just Right Carbine) has 9mm carbines for $700-800 range. The issue I hear on these are that they are a pain in the butt to break down. Uses Glock magazines.

 

Lone Wolf has AR style 9mm carbine, you buy the upper and lower separate and will run around $1,200 total. They get good reviews, but have been out of stock of the lowers for weeks. Uses Glocks magazines.

 

The Beratta Storm 9mm carbine runs $700-800 range. Nice shooting, fairly easy to take apart, and seems to get good reviews. Uses Beratta magazines. I have really enjoyed mine, but wish it used Glock mags.


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#5 milq

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:30 AM

YES! Sig MPX SBR w/can! 


Good night Chesty, wherever you are.

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#6 Helpdesk9

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:45 AM

Lone Wolf has AR style 9mm carbine, you buy the upper and lower separate and will run around $1,200 total. They get good reviews, but have been out of stock of the lowers for weeks. Uses Glocks magazines.
I have one of these, and have been pretty happy with it. Have been thinking about selling it though.

#7 Sidisonfire

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:10 PM

Have you thought about the Kel Tec Sub2000? It's a cheap option that you could possibly share magazines with your pistol if you have a glock 9mm, P226, beretta 92, etc. 



#8 TRJ

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:15 PM

Have you thought about the Kel Tec Sub2000? It's a cheap option that you could possibly share magazines with your pistol if you have a glock 9mm, P226, beretta 92, etc.


Yeah, Beretta 92.

Isn't the kel tech basically vaporware? I hear nobody can get them.

I'm not opposed to buying something cheap if it works, but I try to buy things just once which often forces me into spending a bit up front.

#9 Jeckler

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:04 PM

Another fun option is the Calico Liberty.

http://calicolightwe...ex.php?page=9mm

50 and 100 round capacity.  You can shoot all day and not have to reload.

 

Also available in 22.  

The front end of the 22 version may look familiar.  This was used in the movie Spaceballs.



#10 UnderCover

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:05 PM

The Kel Tec 2000 has been out for years now. Some of them are good and some are bad. They are phasing out the older models and starting to produce the 2015 models. The 2015 looks a lot nicer and modified to perform better. I'll be getting the newer one once it rolls out. I'm also looking to get the CMR30.

Just Remember, Your Carry and Conceal License is NOT a Badge!

My perfect & favorite gun will be the one I'll be carrying that will save my life & my love ones.

But, the main thing to make it my perfect & favorite gun will be my "Shot Placement" no matter what caliber I'll be using.

Glock.jpg

<><  Trust In God! 

 

 

 

 


#11 Gamma

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:18 PM

If you can find one, the old Ruger PC-9 carbine shoots great.  They've been discontinued for some time however.

 

A good quality 9mm AR15 setup works fine also.  There are lots of less-than-good builds out there.  I would suggest just sticking with Colt with Metalform magazines if you're looking for a defensive application.  One functional modification I would suggest is an overcycle limiter like a "Q" buffer or something similar.  You could of course change stocks, handguards etc etc like any AR.

 

The MPX was interesting but had some ergonomic eccentricities that I didn't care for.  Magazines are also quite expensive along with the estimated retail cost of the firearm itself.  I was underwhelmed.

 

I recommend against bullpups for any defensive application.

 

The premise that all rifle ammunition is going to be banned is ludicrous.


Edited by Gamma, 20 March 2015 - 01:20 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#12 TRJ

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:24 PM

If you can find one, the old Ruger PC-9 carbine shoots great.  They've been discontinued for some time however.
 
A good quality 9mm AR15 setup works fine also.  There are lots of less-than-good builds out there.  I would suggest just sticking with Colt with Metalform magazines if you're looking for a defensive application.  One functional modification I would suggest is an overcycle limiter like a "Q" buffer or something similar.  You could of course change stocks, handguards etc etc like any AR.
 
I recommend against bullpups for any defensive application.
 
The premise that all rifle ammunition is going to be banned is ludicrous.


I understand ludicrous, but it's a good rationale to buy a toy I don't need.

#13 Gamma

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:24 PM

I'm also looking to get the CMR30.

I'm also interested in the CMR30 just for recreational shooting and maybe some varmint control applications.

 

I would be interested to see some ballistic testing of various 22WMR loads from a 16" barrel, and reliability experience with the rifle, before considering it for a defensive application.  IF loads are available with suitable ballistic performance AND it proves to be reliable, it would be an interesting option for a home defense application in some applications.

 

Long ago I seem to remember some gel tests of 22WMR and one of the loads had ballistics that looked about like a basic 9mm HP wound track.  I can't find that anymore and don't remember all the details.


Edited by Gamma, 20 March 2015 - 01:27 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#14 Sidisonfire

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:49 PM

 

Have you thought about the Kel Tec Sub2000? It's a cheap option that you could possibly share magazines with your pistol if you have a glock 9mm, P226, beretta 92, etc.


Yeah, Beretta 92.

Isn't the kel tech basically vaporware? I hear nobody can get them.

I'm not opposed to buying something cheap if it works, but I try to buy things just once which often forces me into spending a bit up front.

 

 

The last time I was at Gat guns ~2 months ago, they had a S&W version and a Beretta 92 version for $399. They're out there, but yes they can be hard to find. I have the P226 version and it works just fine as long as it is lubed properly. It would make a great truck gun, that is if you're in a state that allows carrying of a loaded rifle. 



#15 Sidisonfire

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:54 PM

Also, I want to add that if you buy one and don't like it, it won't be hard to sell it and get most if not all of your money back.

 

I would offer to let you use my Sub 2000 at a local range, but lately I haven't had the time to go out to the range - work, school, family etc. 



#16 sleepercaprice1

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 03:24 PM

Don't overlook the Mech Tech carbine kit. It uses a Glock or 1911 frame and their proprietary upper. Switching back and forth between pistol and carbine is no problem.



#17 UnderCover

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:43 PM

Don't overlook the Mech Tech carbine kit. It uses a Glock or 1911 frame and their proprietary upper. Switching back and forth between pistol and carbine is no problem.

Yup the Mech Tech has been out for along time and those are nice carbines if you already have a Glock.

Just Remember, Your Carry and Conceal License is NOT a Badge!

My perfect & favorite gun will be the one I'll be carrying that will save my life & my love ones.

But, the main thing to make it my perfect & favorite gun will be my "Shot Placement" no matter what caliber I'll be using.

Glock.jpg

<><  Trust In God! 

 

 

 

 


#18 UnderCover

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:49 PM

I was going to build a Mech Tech kit but I only have a Glock 27 and the compacts Glocks will not work with this carbine kit.

Edited by UnderCover, 20 March 2015 - 06:52 PM.

Just Remember, Your Carry and Conceal License is NOT a Badge!

My perfect & favorite gun will be the one I'll be carrying that will save my life & my love ones.

But, the main thing to make it my perfect & favorite gun will be my "Shot Placement" no matter what caliber I'll be using.

Glock.jpg

<><  Trust In God! 

 

 

 

 


#19 domin8

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 10:11 PM

I had the pleasure of shooting a suppressed 9mm Bullpup at ASC's Zombie Shoot back in September. I loved it! It felt great. It sounded great. It's setup is ideal for tactical room clearing/home defense. Very controllable. It just felt great! And, then, the cleaning. Even the reps from the company had a bit of difficulty disassembling and reassembling it. Other than that, I was really impressed. I want one. As for a 9mm carbine, why not build it? Sorry. That's my solution for anything AR15-based. CMMG has conversion kits and parts. It seems simple enough. Another option to consider, if you have a G17, is pick up a Roni. Forget using just the Glock magazine. Use the whole Glock.

Edited by domin8, 20 March 2015 - 10:12 PM.

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#20 TRJ

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 02:46 AM

Roni is nfa.

#21 handyflyer

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 07:21 AM

I'm waiting for my Beretta CX4 to show up. Ordered it last week. I rented the one at OnTarget and it was sooooooo much fun to shoot. I've decided to use it as my primary home defense firearm. A couple of reasons for that.
In a home defense situation, anyone's fine motor skills are pretty much going to be gone. The ability to use a aim and effectively use a pistol will be compromised. Using a rifle will be much easier for pretty much every user.
My better half is only 5'1". A shotgun or AR are pretty much out of the question for her. When I was shooting the CX, there was very little recoil. It was very easy to get 2" groups from 25 yards. I wasn't really trying that hard while aiming. More like point and shoot. This rifle is very lightweight as well. Very easy for a smaller person to use.
The other nice part is the noise reduction. The rounds seemed quieter while firing. Another bonus is capacity. It takes standard 92FS magazines. Which means it'll also take the 30 round magazines as well.
Cleaning is a breeze. No tool are required for field stripping.
My only complaint is that stupid piece of plastic between the pistol grip and the stock. I'm going to remove it like in the picture below.
After that, I'll throw a good flashlight on it and call it a day. Maybe someday I'll throw a can on it.......when we finally get our permission slip to do so........image.jpg

#22 handyflyer

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 07:39 AM

More like this picture.

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#23 Keith44

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 07:58 AM

If you want a current production 9mm carbine, there are the various Hi-Point models:

http://www.hi-pointf...MM_carbine.html

I recall reading a review of their product on thetruthaboutguns website.

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#24 ScopeEye

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 08:01 AM

I have two dedicated 9mm AR's one 7 1/2" pistol and the other is 16" rifle
Both run flawless, very accurate, I'd trust my life on either

#25 2A4Cook

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 10:17 AM

If you want a current production 9mm carbine, there are the various Hi-Point models:
http://www.hi-pointf...MM_carbine.html
I recall reading a review of their product on thetruthaboutguns website.
-Keith.


I have a "friend" (yeah, that's the ticket!) who owns one of these (995TS 9mm, runs +p). $300, ran perfect out of the box, decent sights. My "friend" added a red dot, a foregrip and a 2 mag holder that attaches to the butt, along with two spare mags, still less than $500 into the carbine. Just to have something a bit more substantial and steady to have around for HD, this one is really worth it. Not something I'd put thousands of rounds through, but it seems as if it will hold up fine with moderate use.

#26 milq

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:02 PM

Handyflyer, can I ask where you got it? I see some deals on the ones that use PX4 mags but the 92f models seem pretty pricey.

I think I paid $425 (new) for the .45acp one I had...should have kept it.
Good night Chesty, wherever you are.

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#27 DocFaberliss

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:23 PM

Handyflyer, can I ask where you got it? I see some deals on the ones that use PX4 mags but the 92f models seem pretty pricey.
I think I paid $425 (new) for the .45acp one I had...should have kept it.

Botach Tactical has them on sale from time to time.

#28 regularguy

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:27 PM

I just purchased a new Thureon Defense 9mm carbine. I looked at a bunch of different models and had determined that the CZ Scorpion was the route for me, but while waiting I discovered the Thureon and I went that route. I think the Thureon is very well made and while I haven't shot it enough to determine realibility I think it is going to do very well. I have heard that Thureon has had some issues with broken firing pins I believe that they have that fixed.

http://thureondefense.com

#29 handyflyer

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:56 PM

Yep. From Botach. I bought the one that takes the PX4 magazines. It was $580. I then purchased the magazine conversion and mag release for the 92 FS from Beretta for $45ish. The actual conversion takes all of 4 minutes. It's much cheaper then paying the $800 plus people are asking for it on Gunbroker or Armslist. Granted, Botach has slow shipping but it's free shipping. Any their customer service department isn't the .........cheeriest.

Edited by handyflyer, 21 March 2015 - 02:03 PM.


#30 handyflyer

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 02:06 PM

http://www.botach.co...-px4-magazines/


Here you go.