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Transport case, when locked or unlocked?


oohrah

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Based on a discussion in another thread, I have some questions, so I will start a new thread.

 

Clarification please. Scenarios:

 

1. Unlicensed, non-resident (no FOID), transport must be in a locked case, correct?

2. Out-of-state CCL, non-resident can car carry, but out of car transport - locked case?

3. CCL, resident (FOID) can transport in any unlocked container?

4. IL CCL non-resident (no FOID), how do I "transport" where I can't CC?

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1. Transport does not have to be in a locked case - just unloaded and completely enclosed in a case.

2. Must be in a locked vehicle or a locked case.

3. Yes

4. for the most part - unloaded and enclosed in a case

Under 2, why would he have to transport outside his vehicle in a locked case? If his firearm is left in the vehicle then yes, locked case or locked vehicle.

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...

2. Out-of-state CCL, non-resident can car carry, but out of car transport - locked case?

...

...

On #2, I meant carry outside the vehicle, i.e., go from my vehicle to a residence or hotel room with my firearm, without an IL CCL.

There's no such thing as "transport" by anything other than a motor vehicle. Possession outside the car would be governed by hunting licenses and conditions, if anything. Otherwise it's prohibited.

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...2. Out-of-state CCL, non-resident can car carry, but out of car transport - locked case?...

...On #2, I meant carry outside the vehicle, i.e., go from my vehicle to a residence or hotel room with my firearm, without an IL CCL.

There's no such thing as "transport" by anything other than a motor vehicle. Possession outside the car would be governed by hunting licenses and conditions, if anything. Otherwise it's prohibited.

Please quote the statute that states there's no transport other than a vehicle. I will say now that you can't because it doesn't exist.

 

Please read 720 ILCS 5/24-1 (a) (4) (i ii iii). That's where you will find how to transport a firearm

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I believe that the legal definition of transport is to move people or things from one point to another by road, sea, air or rail. As such carrying on or about person outside a motor vehicle does not constitute transport.

 

And sometimes, more often than not, walking is involved.

How would you get your gun from your house to your car, to a ship, train or airplane with out transporting on foot first?

 

Check out Fanny Pack Carry.

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Transport by definition means movement by motor vehicle, ship, train, or airplane. As an analogy, unlawfully transportation of alcohol is transporting in a motor vehicle. Walking down the street with open container is illegal possession.

 

 

The Unlawful Use of a Weapon Statute states how a firearm may be legally transported in a vehicle or on your person. For a nonresident to transport a firearm from their vehicle into their hotel room, it would have to meet one or three in the following list.:

 

(10) Carries or possesses on or about his or her
person, upon any public street, alley, or other public lands within the corporate limits of a city, village, or incorporated town, except when an invitee thereon or therein, for the purpose of the display of such weapon or the lawful commerce in weapons, or except when on his land or in his or her own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun, or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (10) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or

(iv) are carried or possessed in accordance with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act by a person who has been issued a currently valid license under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.
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My post was in response to The King’s post challenging earlier post by Euler. I believe the point Euler was making is that the term “transport” has a specific legal meaning. Since the original post concerned how to legally transport the legal definition of transport seems relevant. The ensuing debate is whether it is appropriate to use the term “transport” to describe an individual’s act of physically carrying a firearm on or about their person when outside a vehicle. I don’t believe that when someone walking down the sidewalk or across a parking lot carrying a unloaded cased firearm are “transporting” under any statute or legal definition of the word.

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There's no such thing as "transport" by anything other than a motor vehicle. Possession outside the car would be governed by hunting licenses and conditions, if anything. Otherwise it's prohibited.

 

I don’t believe that when someone walking down the sidewalk or across a parking lot carrying a unloaded cased firearm are “transporting” under any statute or legal definition of the word.

 

I don't know that I understand your point Dog1, or that of Euler. The IL UUW statute, which defines how to legally possess a weapon, isn't at all about the legal definition of "transportation". It is about the use of a weapon. However, if I walk from my home to my car, the grocery store, etc... I am absolutely actively transporting myself, on foot.

 

Of course, you may believe what you wish to believe.

 

 

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)

Sec. 24-1. Unlawful use of weapons.

 

(10) Carries or possesses on or about his or her person, ...

(a) (10) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or

(iv) are carried or possessed in accordance with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act by a person who has been issued a currently valid license under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

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My post was in response to The King’s post challenging earlier post by Euler. I believe the point Euler was making is that the term “transport” has a specific legal meaning. Since the original post concerned how to legally transport the legal definition of transport seems relevant. The ensuing debate is whether it is appropriate to use the term “transport” to describe an individual’s act of physically carrying a firearm on or about their person when outside a vehicle. I don’t believe that when someone walking down the sidewalk or across a parking lot carrying a unloaded cased firearm are “transporting” under any statute or legal definition of the word.

 

Ok, you can believe what you want to but as an instructor I have been teaching the Illinois compiled statutes pertaining to firearms for over seven years now and have been reading them for over ten years.

 

Not trying to be rude but you have no idea what you're talking about. If you don't believe me,read what Molly posted as she's an instructor also and correct in the post she made.

 

I have taught lawyers and judges and I have never been challenged on my interpretation of state law.

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...

1. Unlicensed, non-resident (no FOID), transport must be in a locked case, correct?

2. Out-of-state CCL, non-resident can car carry, but out of car transport - locked case?

3. CCL, resident (FOID) can transport in any unlocked container?

4. IL CCL non-resident (no FOID), how do I "transport" where I can't CC?

 

 

Paragraph 10 does not apply to the original post.

Paragraph 10 describes ways in which #'s 1, 2, and 3 in the opening post can be accomplished legally under Illinois Law.

 

Some of us refer to that as "transport" because Paragraph 10 creates a definition of that term within the scope of moving a firearm from place to place.

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Be as rude as you wish. The debate is not over whether the op can carry a unloaded cased firearm as described. He can. The debate is whether the act is “carrying”’or “transporting.” There is a distinction. (a)4 addresses both if you wish to see it.

Again I am not trying to be rude, but you do not understand state law. I know what statute you are referring to. I can actually recite 24/1 (a)(4) by memory. The state has defined the term "transport" and it differs from the term "carry". The definitions differ for a reason and the state has set that standard.

 

Maybe you would believe another instructor, anyone else want to jump in and explain the difference.

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Interesting you insist I do no understand state law. Please point to cite in the UUW statute that defines carry and transport.

It's in the statute you referenced 24-1. I quoted it in my previous post. If you don't understand what the UUW statute means then I can't help you. Reading comprehension isn't that tough.

 

Personally I'm not going to debate this any further. Obviously you don't understand the law and no matter how many people respond you still will believe what you want.

 

Have a nice day.

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As noted above, "transport" has a legal definition that means "in a vehicle." No statutes are required to define every word. NY and NJ take advantage of the gap in FOPA coverage of "transportation" all the time. FOPA only guarantees protection from state and local laws during transport, so NY and NJ wait until out-of-state people take their guns out of their cars, especially at airports on the way to the TSA counter, when guns are unloaded and locked in cases to comply with TSA requirements.

 

Meanwhile,

Unlawful use of weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

...

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person ... except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) [requires a FOID, so "fanny packs" aren't legally viable for non-residents]; or

(iv) [requires an IL CCL, so it's also not legally viable for most non-residents]; ...

I suppose disassembled (i.e., field stripped, which typically doesn't mean completely broken down) is an option; and locked in a case (which is more than just "enclosed in a case") is another option. Beware that those are Illinois-specific options, though.

 

Anything you do on land YOU own as your residence or your business is excluded from being UUW, but I interpreted the question to mean someone else's home or hotel. (i.e., the traveler is not the hotel owner, so it's not his place of business.)

 

ILCS in its entirety is pedantically worded, so I think its use of the word "transportation" in 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4) is more likely to be a sloppy use of the word rather than an implicit legal redefinition of it.

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If the relevant statute consisted only of Paragraph 4 your argument limiting transport to "in a vehicle" would make more (though not complete) sense. It consists of much more, of course, and all elements of the statute must be taken into consideration in order to understand the whole. Thus the earlier references to Paragraph 10, rather than 4.

 

I'd also suggest that it would be inappropriate to look for a meaning of any term in a different statute, "transport" in this case, when the meaning is provided within the act in question.

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  • 4 months later...

 

Transport by definition means movement by motor vehicle, ship, train, or airplane. As an analogy, unlawfully transportation of alcohol is transporting in a motor vehicle. Walking down the street with open container is illegal possession.

 

 

The Unlawful Use of a Weapon Statute states how a firearm may be legally transported in a vehicle or on your person. For a nonresident to transport a firearm from their vehicle into their hotel room, it would have to meet one or three in the following list.:

 

(10) Carries or possesses on or about his or her
person, upon any public street, alley, or other public lands within the corporate limits of a city, village, or incorporated town, except when an invitee thereon or therein, for the purpose of the display of such weapon or the lawful commerce in weapons, or except when on his land or in his or her own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun, or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (10) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or

(iv) are carried or possessed in accordance with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act by a person who has been issued a currently valid license under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

 

Does (iii) cover a closed center console or glove box that do not have locks but lids that close? Does this also cover backpack while walking? Will firearm not broken down but unloaded via the magazine being removed but loaded with chamber empty in a previous examples (center console/glove box closed but not lockable, or walking with a bag or backpack) cover and be compliant on a IL Foid Card?

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Transport by definition means movement by motor vehicle, ship, train, or airplane. As an analogy, unlawfully transportation of alcohol is transporting in a motor vehicle. Walking down the street with open container is illegal possession.

 

 

The Unlawful Use of a Weapon Statute states how a firearm may be legally transported in a vehicle or on your person. For a nonresident to transport a firearm from their vehicle into their hotel room, it would have to meet one or three in the following list.:

 

(10) Carries or possesses on or about his or her
person, upon any public street, alley, or other public lands within the corporate limits of a city, village, or incorporated town, except when an invitee thereon or therein, for the purpose of the display of such weapon or the lawful commerce in weapons, or except when on his land or in his or her own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun, or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (10) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or

(iv) are carried or possessed in accordance with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act by a person who has been issued a currently valid license under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

 

Does (iii) cover a closed center console or glove box that do not have locks but lids that close? Does this also cover backpack while walking? Will firearm not broken down but unloaded via the magazine being removed but loaded with chamber empty in a previous examples (center console/glove box closed but not lockable, or walking with a bag or backpack) cover and be compliant on a IL Foid Card?

 

Correction meant to type chamber empty not loaded, and loaded magazine removed (not loaded into firearm) but close to firearm in closed container (car center console/glove box that are unlock able but have lids to close), or walking with a messenger bag or backpack in the same conditions for the firearm. The bag or backpack would be closed via zipper for example for IL FOID holder and UUW compliance?.

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