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3hr Renewal Discrepancy?


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#31 InterestedBystander

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:15 PM

Just repeating the info given to me by ISP:
 

And then we submit the request and wait up to 90/120 days...realistically more like 50 to 110 based on reports. And do we know if LE will have a 30 day objection period again?

Edited by InterestedBystander, 10 July 2018 - 09:40 PM.

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#32 Molly B.

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:02 PM

 

Just repeating the info given to me by ISP:
 


And then we submit the request and wait up to 90/120 days...realisticly more like 50 to 110 based on reports. And do we know if LE will have a 30 day objection period again?

 

This we do not know yet.  I am going to assume they do and it should be based only on incidents in the past 5 years.  Who knows what Cook Co. will do . . .


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#33 xrlke

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 11:54 AM

WAND TV Springfield ran a concealed carry renewal segment on this morning`s broadcast.  Per the report the ISP says it will take up to 4 months to process a renewal application and recommends CCL holders apply for renewal 5 months before their expiration date.   Instructors are still faced with no clear guidelines on the renewal process and a flawed renewal certificate.  We have no idea when the first applications will be accepted by the ISP or something in writing from the ISP about what we should teach to satisfy the renewal requirements.  Do we follow the law or JCAR or the Certificate requirements?  Time for a trip to meet with your state rep and try and put some pressure on the ISP to get this straightened out. Starting with the renewal certificate.

 
Why apply 5 months early?
 
The law clearly states that as long as you have applied before your expiration date your license is still good while you are waiting on the renewal. They can take 3 years and you can still carry on your old license that is expired.

True, but those of us that only have one ccw permit (IL), now only have a permit for one state. All other states that recognize IL are going to see an expired permit that makes you illegal to carry, I assume.

#34 bmyers

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

 

 

WAND TV Springfield ran a concealed carry renewal segment on this morning`s broadcast.  Per the report the ISP says it will take up to 4 months to process a renewal application and recommends CCL holders apply for renewal 5 months before their expiration date.   Instructors are still faced with no clear guidelines on the renewal process and a flawed renewal certificate.  We have no idea when the first applications will be accepted by the ISP or something in writing from the ISP about what we should teach to satisfy the renewal requirements.  Do we follow the law or JCAR or the Certificate requirements?  Time for a trip to meet with your state rep and try and put some pressure on the ISP to get this straightened out. Starting with the renewal certificate.

 
Why apply 5 months early?
 
The law clearly states that as long as you have applied before your expiration date your license is still good while you are waiting on the renewal. They can take 3 years and you can still carry on your old license that is expired.

True, but those of us that only have one ccw permit (IL), now only have a permit for one state. All other states that recognize IL are going to see an expired permit that makes you illegal to carry, I assume.

 

 

Why? According to Illinois law it is still a valid permit as long as you have applied for renewal.



#35 InterestedBystander

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:02 PM

[quote name="bmyers" post="1163456" timestamp="1531334947"][quote name="xrlke" post="1163437" timestamp="1531331669"]
[quote name="bmyers" post="1163247" timestamp="1531246680"]
[quote name="NRApistol" post="1163190" timestamp="1531230689"]
WAND TV Springfield ran a concealed carry renewal segment on this morning`s broadcast.  Per the report the ISP says it will take up to 4 months to process a renewal application and recommends CCL holders apply for renewal 5 months before their expiration date.   Instructors are still faced with no clear guidelines on the renewal process and a flawed renewal certificate.  We have no idea when the first applications will be accepted by the ISP or something in writing from the ISP about what we should teach to satisfy the renewal requirements.  Do we follow the law or JCAR or the Certificate requirements?  Time for a trip to meet with your state rep and try and put some pressure on the ISP to get this straightened out. Starting with the renewal certificate.
[/quote]
 
Why apply 5 months early?
 
The law clearly states that as long as you have applied before your expiration date your license is still good while you are waiting on the renewal. They can take 3 years and you can still carry on your old license that is expired.[/quote]

True, but those of us that only have one ccw permit (IL), now only have a permit for one state. All other states that recognize IL are going to see an expired permit that makes you illegal to carry, I assume.
[/quote]
 
Why? According to Illinois law it is still a valid permit as long as you have applied for renewal.[/quote]

Well, the physical card is going to show an expired date, but you could always carry a copy of the renewal law and a screen cap of your online renewal submission.

I might assume most states rely on Nlets though and it would depend on what Illinois is reporting to them when your license gets run from out of state.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 11 July 2018 - 01:06 PM.

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#36 bmyers

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:18 PM



WAND TV Springfield ran a concealed carry renewal segment on this morning`s broadcast.  Per the report the ISP says it will take up to 4 months to process a renewal application and recommends CCL holders apply for renewal 5 months before their expiration date.   Instructors are still faced with no clear guidelines on the renewal process and a flawed renewal certificate.  We have no idea when the first applications will be accepted by the ISP or something in writing from the ISP about what we should teach to satisfy the renewal requirements.  Do we follow the law or JCAR or the Certificate requirements?  Time for a trip to meet with your state rep and try and put some pressure on the ISP to get this straightened out. Starting with the renewal certificate.


 
Why apply 5 months early?
 
The law clearly states that as long as you have applied before your expiration date your license is still good while you are waiting on the renewal. They can take 3 years and you can still carry on your old license that is expired.



True, but those of us that only have one ccw permit (IL), now only have a permit for one state. All other states that recognize IL are going to see an expired permit that makes you illegal to carry, I assume.


 
Why? According to Illinois law it is still a valid permit as long as you have applied for renewal.


Well, the physical card is going to show an expired date, but you could always carry a copy of the renewal law and a screen cap of your online renewal submission.

I might assume most states rely on Nlets though and it would depend on what Illinois is reporting to them when your license gets run from out of state.

 

Which if Illinois was not reporting you as a valid license, you would have a nice lawsuit.



#37 xrlke

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:20 AM

Ya, probably any interaction with the police out of state and they are going to check the validity of the ccw. Just seems to me that carrying out of state on an "expired" permit would just take more time and hassle to clear up.

#38 John Q Public

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:42 AM

Thanks  Ms. B, there was no way to do it in that time frame and comply with JCAR and the ISP cert. That's why I brought it here in the hopes we/you could get some calcification. 

 

 

 

Molly,  thanks, this is good news.  Will there be changes to the renewal certificate to reflect this? 

 

Working on this.

 


Edited by John Q Public, 12 July 2018 - 11:42 AM.


#39 cola490

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:51 PM

Ya, probably any interaction with the police out of state and they are going to check the validity of the ccw. Just seems to me that carrying out of state on an "expired" permit would just take more time and hassle to clear up.


While they are “clearing” it up, will you be sitting in a holding cell?

#40 papa

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 02:21 PM

 

Ya, probably any interaction with the police out of state and they are going to check the validity of the ccw. Just seems to me that carrying out of state on an "expired" permit would just take more time and hassle to clear up.


While they are “clearing” it up, will you be sitting in a holding cell?

 

 

I wouldn't be because I have my Utah license to fall back on.



#41 Mr. Fife

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 06:23 AM


 
Will there possibly be an addendum to CLIC to reflect the changes to the law sections mentioned?
 


 
 
We usaually do an update to the curriculum but we will have to wait until after we see what happens with legislation on the Gov.'s desk.

Besides the new 72 hours for *all* gun sales in Illinois, are there any other updates that we need to include?
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#42 Craigcelia

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 06:52 AM

 

 
Will there possibly be an addendum to CLIC to reflect the changes to the law sections mentioned?
 


 
 
We usaually do an update to the curriculum but we will have to wait until after we see what happens with legislation on the Gov.'s desk.

Besides the new 72 hours for *all* gun sales in Illinois, are there any other updates that we need to include?

 

Keep in mind, this doesn't start until 1/1/2019.



#43 solareclipse2

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:35 AM

 

 

Ya, probably any interaction with the police out of state and they are going to check the validity of the ccw. Just seems to me that carrying out of state on an "expired" permit would just take more time and hassle to clear up.


While they are “clearing” it up, will you be sitting in a holding cell?

 

 

I wouldn't be because I have my Utah license to fall back on.

 

 

Utah license is not valid without a valid license from your home state. We could get away with that before we could carry in IL.


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#44 Craigcelia

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:48 AM

 

 

Utah license is not valid without a valid license from your home state. We could get away with that before we could carry in IL.

 

That actually is not true.  Utah will still issue to Illinois residents even if they do not have an Illinois CCL.  

 

https://bci.utah.gov...firearm-permit/

 

Non-resident proof of permit. If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states click here. You are considered a resident of whichever state issued your ID. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply.

 

Since Illinois does not recognize Utah, this doesn't apply.


Edited by Craigcelia, 03 August 2018 - 09:52 AM.


#45 357

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 10:09 AM

Just repeating the info given to me by ISP:


And then we submit the request and wait up to 90/120 days...realisticly more like 50 to 110 based on reports. And do we know if LE will have a 30 day objection period again?

This we do not know yet.  I am going to assume they do and it should be based only on incidents in the past 5 years.  Who knows what Cook Co. will do . . .

The objection period was for new licensees and was abused and many people still waiting years to exercise their right to self defense. People's lives are at stake and they cannot wait years to exercise their right to self defense. Why should people that already have gone through the objection process and have a license, have to go through that travesty again and be darted? It doesn't make sense, we are background checked 365 days a year. Molly can you please talk to the ISP about this. This should be a priority and we should not leave this up to Cook county as they have shown what they will do and abuse the law. Cook county is part of the state. And good luck getting a license if JB gets elected and changes the makeup of the board.
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#46 Molly B.

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 10:15 AM

 

 


This we do not know yet.  I am going to assume they do and it should be based only on incidents in the past 5 years.  Who knows what Cook Co. will do . . .

The objection period was for new licensees and was abused and many people still waiting years to exercise their right to self defense. People's lives are at stake and they cannot wait years to exercise their right to self defense. Why should people that already have gone through the objection process and have a license, have to go through that travesty again and be darted? It doesn't make sense, we are background checked 365 days a year. Molly can you please talk to the ISP about this. This should be a priority and we should not leave this up to Cook county as they have shown what they will do and abuse the law. Cook county is part of the state. And good luck getting a license if JB gets elected and changes the makeup of the board.

 

 

We have been discussing this with ISP.  I don't think they are any happier with Cook Co. than we are.  Not sure how this will shake out but If somehow an objection is filed, the statute is clear that it must go to the review board.

 

Fortunately the problem with the review board has been resolved, thanks to the Governor and his team and his appointments to the board.

You are correct, Pritzker gets elected that will all change.


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#47 357

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 11:27 AM

This we do not know yet.  I am going to assume they do and it should be based only on incidents in the past 5 years.  Who knows what Cook Co. will do . . .


The objection period was for new licensees and was abused and many people still waiting years to exercise their right to self defense. People's lives are at stake and they cannot wait years to exercise their right to self defense. Why should people that already have gone through the objection process and have a license, have to go through that travesty again and be darted? It doesn't make sense, we are background checked 365 days a year. Molly can you please talk to the ISP about this. This should be a priority and we should not leave this up to Cook county as they have shown what they will do and abuse the law. Cook county is part of the state. And good luck getting a license if JB gets elected and changes the makeup of the board.
 
We have been discussing this with ISP.  I don't think they are any happier with Cook Co. than we are.  Not sure how this will shake out but If somehow an objection is filed, the statute is clear that it must go to the review board.
 
Fortunately the problem with the review board has been resolved, thanks to the Governor and his team and his appointments to the board.
You are correct, Pritzker gets elected that will all change.

I know you have done good work with the Governor and the ISP and have resolved problems for a lot of people and we appreciate it, thank you.

People who already have licenses should not be treated as new applicants and there should not be any objections and they should not have to go to the board and wait months and years to get back the right they had, that is unthinkable and outrageous.

We should stop this now that we have an administration that respects people's rights in office. Does any other state do this?
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
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George Orwell

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will loose both"
Benjamin Franklin

#48 Molly B.

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 11:38 AM

 

I know you have done good work with the Governor and the ISP and have resolved problems for a lot of people and we appreciate it, thank you.

People who already have licenses should not be treated as new applicants and there should not be any objections and they should not have to go to the board and wait months and years to get back the right they had, that is unthinkable and outrageous.

We should stop this now that we have an administration that respects people's rights in office. Does any other state do this?

 

 

We don't know if there is anything to stop.  I think you are getting the cart before the horse.  This is what the statute says:

 

    (430 ILCS 66/50)
    Sec. 50. License renewal. Applications for renewal of a license shall be made to the Department. A license shall be renewed for a period of 5 years upon receipt of a completed renewal application, completion of 3 hours of training required under Section 75 of this Act, payment of the applicable renewal fee, and completion of an investigation under Section 35 of this Act. The renewal application shall contain the information required in Section 30 of this Act, except that the applicant need not resubmit a full set of fingerprints.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-756, eff. 7-16-14.)

I don't think there should be an objection period according to this section. We have voiced our concerns.  Now we wait to see what happens.  If there is a problem, then we attack the problem.  No need to borrow problems for tomorrow.
 


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#49 357

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 10:41 PM

Thank you Molly for clarifying it. I meant we should prevent it from happening. You are right, in Section 35 which is about renewals, there's no objection period for license renewal. The ISP has to follow the law and there's no objection period for license renewals in the law.

So where do some people get the idea that there's gonna be an objection period for renewals?

"Sec. 35. Investigation of the applicant.
The Department shall conduct a background check of the applicant to ensure compliance with the requirements of this Act and all federal, State, and local laws. The background check shall include a search of the following:
(1) the National Instant Criminal Background Check

System of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;
(2) all available state and local criminal history

record information files, including records of juvenile adjudications;
(3) all available federal, state, and local records

regarding wanted persons;
(4) all available federal, state, and local records

of domestic violence restraining and protective orders;
(5) the files of the Department of Human Services

relating to mental health and developmental disabilities; and
(6) all other available records of a federal, state,

or local agency or other public entity in any jurisdiction likely to contain information relevant to whether the applicant is prohibited from purchasing, possessing, or carrying a firearm under federal, state, or local law.
Fingerprints collected under Section 30 shall be checked against the Department of State Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation criminal history record databases now and hereafter filed. The Department shall charge applicants a fee for conducting the criminal history records check, which shall be deposited in the State Police Services Fund and shall not exceed the actual cost of the records check.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-756, eff. 7-16-14.)"
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#50 InterestedBystander

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 11:06 PM

If there is no objection period for renewals then it seems that should take 30 days off the time period for the renewal.
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#51 THE KING

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 08:50 PM

If there is no objection period for renewals then it seems that should take 30 days off the time period for the renewal.


Would you quit using common sense. Of course they won't do that.

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#52 357

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:16 PM

If there is no objection period for renewals then it seems that should take 30 days off the time period for the renewal.


Would you quit using common sense. Of course they won't do that.

They can't make laws and have to follow the law.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
Edmund Burke

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George Orwell

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will loose both"
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#53 BigJim

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 09:14 AM

 

 

 


This we do not know yet.  I am going to assume they do and it should be based only on incidents in the past 5 years.  Who knows what Cook Co. will do . . .

The objection period was for new licensees and was abused and many people still waiting years to exercise their right to self defense. People's lives are at stake and they cannot wait years to exercise their right to self defense. Why should people that already have gone through the objection process and have a license, have to go through that travesty again and be darted? It doesn't make sense, we are background checked 365 days a year. Molly can you please talk to the ISP about this. This should be a priority and we should not leave this up to Cook county as they have shown what they will do and abuse the law. Cook county is part of the state. And good luck getting a license if JB gets elected and changes the makeup of the board.

 

 

We have been discussing this with ISP.  I don't think they are any happier with Cook Co. than we are.  Not sure how this will shake out but If somehow an objection is filed, the statute is clear that it must go to the review board.

 

Fortunately the problem with the review board has been resolved, thanks to the Governor and his team and his appointments to the board.

You are correct, Pritzker gets elected that will all change.

 

When does the current board's term end?  I want to get my renewal submitted in time for the current board to process it before a new board, possibly appointed by JB takes over and decides to go back to the old ways of doing things.


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#54 cola490

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 10:08 AM

I don’t think anyone knows when they will be accepting renewal applications.

#55 Craigcelia

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:28 AM

I would be willing to bet there will be an objection period for renewals.

 

To play devil's advocate for a minute, just because there is no arrest, charges or mental health admissions found from the daily checks of the ISP, doesn't mean the local law enforcement agency hasn't had any contacts or run-in's where they would want to object.  There very well have been contacts, but remember.....the objections "should" only be based on if the person is a harm to themselves, or others.  That definition is subject to interpretation depending on the agency and the agency must submit documentation.  Either way, it's understood that once an objection is filed, the applicant is in for a rough ride.


Edited by Craigcelia, 06 August 2018 - 11:29 AM.


#56 InterestedBystander

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:16 PM

When does the current board's term end?  I want to get my renewal submitted in time for the current board to process it before a new board, possibly appointed by JB takes over and decides to go back to the old ways of doing things.

https://www2.illinoi...l.aspx?BCID=739

Name (Last, First) Term Expires Member Since Affiliation Appointed By
Bobrick, Edward 1/14/2019 4/27/2015 Republican Governor
Dinwiddie, Stephen 1/14/2019 4/27/2015 Democrat Governor
Duffy, Joseph 1/14/2019 5/18/2015 Democrat Governor
Johnson, Jon 1/14/2019 3/9/2015 Independent Governor
Margolis, Jeremy 1/14/2019 3/9/2015 Republican Governor
Vaughn, Joseph 1/14/2019 3/9/2015 Republican Governor
Wright, Frank 1/14/2019 3/9/2015 Republican Governor

Edited by InterestedBystander, 06 August 2018 - 09:36 PM.

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#57 speedbump

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:53 PM

Jeremy Margolis is a former ISP Director and Federal judge.

Also, I concur with Craig's assessment - it's likely the 30 day objection period will be applicable to renewals.
.02

Edited by speedbump, 06 August 2018 - 08:54 PM.

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#58 357

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:44 AM

I would be willing to bet there will be an objection period for renewals.
 
To play devil's advocate for a minute, just because there is no arrest, charges or mental health admissions found from the daily checks of the ISP, doesn't mean the local law enforcement agency hasn't had any contacts or run-in's where they would want to object.  There very well have been contacts, but remember.....the objections "should" only be based on if the person is a harm to themselves, or others.  That definition is subject to interpretation depending on the agency and the agency must submit documentation.  Either way, it's understood that once an objection is filed, the applicant is in for a rough ride.


The language in the law is clear and not open to interpretation. There's an objection period in the law for first time applicants, not for renewals. Contact with law enforcement is not a disqualifier. They need to provide proof and documentation that someone is a threat to himself or others.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
Edmund Burke

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George Orwell

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will loose both"
Benjamin Franklin

#59 Craigcelia

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:24 AM

 

I would be willing to bet there will be an objection period for renewals.
 
To play devil's advocate for a minute, just because there is no arrest, charges or mental health admissions found from the daily checks of the ISP, doesn't mean the local law enforcement agency hasn't had any contacts or run-in's where they would want to object.  There very well have been contacts, but remember.....the objections "should" only be based on if the person is a harm to themselves, or others.  That definition is subject to interpretation depending on the agency and the agency must submit documentation.  Either way, it's understood that once an objection is filed, the applicant is in for a rough ride.


The language in the law is clear and not open to interpretation. There's an objection period in the law for first time applicants, not for renewals. Contact with law enforcement is not a disqualifier. They need to provide proof and documentation that someone is a threat to himself or others.

 

I agree with you to the point that contact with law enforcement isn't an automatic disqualifier and documentation is needed, as I have clearly mentioned above.  However, I haven't found in the law where it mentions an objection period would not be required for renewals.  



#60 Quiet Observer

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:47 AM

The language in the law is clear and not open to interpretation. There's an objection period in the law for first time applicants, not for renewals. Contact with law enforcement is not a disqualifier. They need to provide proof and documentation that someone is a threat to himself or others.

 

 

Every law is subject to interpretation.  That is one of the reasons we have courts.  






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