chicagoresident Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:01 AM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:01 AM Freedom and democracy can be messy. Ill take all the a**-hattery you guys are raving about over living under a religious or political tyranny. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Denial springs eternal. You cannot have a civil society without it also being a moral society and you cannot have a moral society without all participants agreeing on what is 'moral'.This is why our republic was intentionally founded on judeo/christian principles. (see below) Without religion you end up with political tyranny, without reason you end up with religious tyranny. You need both to balance the other. Our republic was founded on natural rights, although synonymous with Judeo Christianity it proceeded it. Reflective of the Enlightenment era religious views of our founders ranged from theists to deists. Doubtful their views of Christianity would square with modern Christian Conservatism. But they were well versed in antiquity so that bridged the gap in religious differences. Many of the founders also owned slaves so as quick as natural rights charters were drafted they're violated by the rule of man. From the Magna Carta to the Constitution. On another note, not a jew among them so Judeo is revisionist history, but it was done to combat rising antisemitism in the 1930's. There is in fact a true law - namely right reason - which is in accordance with nature, applies to all men, and is unchangeable and eternal. By its commands this law summons men to the performance of their duties. By its prohibitions, it restrains them from doing wrong. Its commands and prohibitions always influence good men, but are without effect upon the bad. To invalidate this law of human legislation is never morally right, nor is it permissible ever to restrict its operation, and to annul it is impossible. Neither the Senate nor the people can absolve us from our obligation to obey this law, and it requires no Sextus Aelms to expound and interpret it. It will not lay down one rule at Rome and another at Athens, nor will it be one rule today and another tomorrow. But there will be one law, eternal and unchangeable, binding at all times and upon all peoples; and there will be, as it were, one common master and ruler of mankind, namely God, who is the author of this law, its interpreter, and its sponsor. The man who will not obey it will abandon his better self, and, in denying the true nature of a man will thereby suffer the severest of penalties, though he has escaped all the other consequences which men call punishments.There is only one moral law, and that's natural law, leave it up to man to screw it up. Many claim to be followers of it, but quickly walk it back when extending it towards people not like themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted September 4, 2019 at 05:47 AM Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 05:47 AM Molly, If new laws in ILLannoy go their seemingly inevitable way, let's suppose that everyone has to turn in their so-called "assault weapons." In that event, it is obvious that folks on this forum will be screaming non-compliance. Will they be told they're violating the Code of Conduct? At what point does the switch flip? Because it seems that day is coming. It's a very interesting and very possible dilemma for you and others who control this forum. QAt the risk of garnering Molly's extended "aggravation", I would be the first to express my "non-compliance" with the "Unconstitutional" edict. I will not try to anticipate her (or Mauserme's) response, but I am sure they will do what they feel is best for this site.This site, and it's supporters, have accomplished a HYOOGE amount of positive effects for the 2nd Amendment rights of Illinois citizens, and no one can deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted September 4, 2019 at 06:32 AM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 06:32 AM The biggest problem with including religion in the solution is how religion has been dismissed by the majority. Most politicians use to have religious backgrounds. They are the minority today. We have a national cathedral. You don't ever hear about it being used. Before people start screaming about separation of church and state, I never said church needed to run the state. Their can be religious influence in politics as long as an official religion isn't declared. Love they neighbor, don't covet the neighbor's wife, thou shalt not kill, etc. are not preached enough today. Once the 10 Commandments were removed from government buildings via court orders the downward slope became steeper. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted September 4, 2019 at 06:52 AM Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 06:52 AM OH, my ftriend, but you are sadly mistaken. There is a HUGE influx of religion in the Government. It is the absolute Worship of Government. Which is the exact antipathy/opposite of Freedom/Independence. Too many people, and their "Representatives" see Government as their Savior. Nothing could be further from the Truth. The Government only enslaves, it NEVER Liberates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted September 4, 2019 at 12:02 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 12:02 PM Can you show me the mysticism in government that runs throughout religion, such as a belief in a higher power that is guided by one's locus of control? The "faith" in government isn't mystic like religion. It's the exact opposite. It's a desire for God-like control, not a belief in an intangible higher being. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolnick Posted September 4, 2019 at 02:22 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 02:22 PM Surely you don't want 5,000+ representatives? If the House had been increasing in size all along, problems would have been encountered before it got to 5,000 or 7,000. An amendment could have been passed to make the House two-tiered, or some other work around. I don't buy the "no career politicians" angle either, Chicago wards have ~50,000 people and there's still career politicians and corruption galore. In a small town of 100, some guy may be mayor for 60+ years, but he is not a career politician because he can't make a living handing out favors from a tax base of 100 people. Yes, that guy is mayor year after year, but he still needs a day job. On the other hand, politicians who get elected to a districts of half a million (and their family, friends, and cohorts) can easily make a living doling out bankable favors. In my village of 42,000, the mayor, the six at-large trustees, and the clerk all have full-time jobs elsewhere. In nearby Chicago, alderman of a ward of 54,000 is a full-time job. For this comparison, the population of my village and a ward in Chicago are close enough. However, my village officials do not have tax revenue from 100 story skyscrapers, international airports, major league sports teams, or a 2.6 million sq foot exposition center to hand out deal with. Translation: Regardless of population, the larger the finances of the office, the easier it is to make a living off of that office. According to the Washington Post, $2.4 billion was spent on the 2016 presidential election. Question: Why spend $2.4 billion to get a job that will pay $1.6 million over 4 years? Answer: It's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted September 4, 2019 at 03:34 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 03:34 PM Molly, If new laws in ILLannoy go their seemingly inevitable way, let's suppose that everyone has to turn in their so-called "assault weapons." In that event, it is obvious that folks on this forum will be screaming non-compliance. Will they be told they're violating the Code of Conduct? At what point does the switch flip? Because it seems that day is coming. It's a very interesting and very possible dilemma for you and others who control this forum. QAt the risk of garnering Molly's extended "aggravation", I would be the first to express my "non-compliance" with the "Unconstitutional" edict. I will not try to anticipate her (or Mauserme's) response, but I am sure they will do what they feel is best for this site.This site, and it's supporters, have accomplished a HYOOGE amount of positive effects for the 2nd Amendment rights of Illinois citizens, and no one can deny that. There is a difference between non-compliance with an unconstitutional law and arming up to take out criminals because the legal system will not. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:27 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:27 PM Molly, If new laws in ILLannoy go their seemingly inevitable way, let's suppose that everyone has to turn in their so-called "assault weapons." In that event, it is obvious that folks on this forum will be screaming non-compliance. Will they be told they're violating the Code of Conduct? At what point does the switch flip? Because it seems that day is coming. It's a very interesting and very possible dilemma for you and others who control this forum. Q At the risk of garnering Molly's extended "aggravation", I would be the first to express my "non-compliance" with the "Unconstitutional" edict. I will not try to anticipate her (or Mauserme's) response, but I am sure they will do what they feel is best for this site.This site, and it's supporters, have accomplished a HYOOGE amount of positive effects for the 2nd Amendment rights of Illinois citizens, and no one can deny that.In the case that happens, they should do the right thing and wipe it clean other than stickies as to not put their members at risk who have talked about owning such weapons in the past........... Also, not sure members would appreciate the classifieds section remaining viewable so that they are subject to weapon seizure raids. Will the ISP get a warrant to get the ISP addresses from said memebers? Welcome to Illinois under Complete Democratic control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:28 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 04:28 PM Molly, If new laws in ILLannoy go their seemingly inevitable way, let's suppose that everyone has to turn in their so-called "assault weapons." In that event, it is obvious that folks on this forum will be screaming non-compliance. Will they be told they're violating the Code of Conduct? At what point does the switch flip? Because it seems that day is coming. It's a very interesting and very possible dilemma for you and others who control this forum. Q At the risk of garnering Molly's extended "aggravation", I would be the first to express my "non-compliance" with the "Unconstitutional" edict. I will not try to anticipate her (or Mauserme's) response, but I am sure they will do what they feel is best for this site.This site, and it's supporters, have accomplished a HYOOGE amount of positive effects for the 2nd Amendment rights of Illinois citizens, and no one can deny that. There is a difference between non-compliance with an unconstitutional law and arming up to take out criminals because the legal system will not. Huge difference.+1. If it’s not self defense it’s murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmart Posted September 4, 2019 at 10:59 PM Share Posted September 4, 2019 at 10:59 PM Can you show me the mysticism in government that runs throughout religion, such as a belief in a higher power that is guided by one's locus of control? The "faith" in government isn't mystic like religion. It's the exact opposite. It's a desire for God-like control, not a belief in an intangible higher being. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Belief in a higher power to protect us and provide all our needs, checkFaith in government to do so (despite all evidence to the contrary), checkIntangible higher being... higher being check, just try finding someone to hold accountable, check Those religions just want to tell me and others how to live our lives... government, checkReligious people are all a bunch of hypocrites (government; good for thee but not for me), government, checkThey're always judging me and finding me wanting, government, checkThey call everything enjoyable a sin, government, checkChurches just want your money, always passing the plate (God is a piker asking only for you to VOLUNTARILY give 10%), government, check did I miss anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted September 5, 2019 at 02:10 AM Share Posted September 5, 2019 at 02:10 AM · Hidden by mauserme, September 5, 2019 at 02:11 AM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, September 5, 2019 at 02:11 AM - No reason given Yes. Locus of control. Furthermore, a government representative is not intangible. There's more, but it's clear to me that this is merely a penis measuring contest. Since the average size is 6.3 inches long, I'm good with where I'm at. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Link to comment
WitchDoctor Posted September 27, 2019 at 08:26 PM Share Posted September 27, 2019 at 08:26 PM +2. If it’s not self defense it’s murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Power Posted September 28, 2019 at 01:40 AM Share Posted September 28, 2019 at 01:40 AM +2. If it’s not self defense it’s murder +3 for an easy concept to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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