Jump to content


Photo

Tier 1 Concealed. Never again


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 jlbaugh72

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 15

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:10 PM

I recently ordered an Optio holster from them for my Glock 19 with PL Mini Valkyrie and the holster does not accept my firearm.
I wrote them and their customer service people are either clueless or apathetic. The holster is not for my gun, they won't exchange it and they told me to sell it if I can't use it, to which I asked them to identify it, (because it's not what I ordered) and they swear it's the gun/ light combo I ordered, even after seeing pictures of it.
My gun will not seat in the holster. I have loosened the screws completely, and I still have to press as hard as I can to get the gun about half into the holster at which time it goes out of battery. (Unloaded the whole time obviously.)

I'm at a loss. I'm out nearly $100 and have a product that I can't even resell in good conscious.

Any advice?

This experience has put me off to them and I will never turn to them again.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit."

"Men exist for the sake of one another, teach them then or bear with them."

#2 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:23 PM

Call up your credit card company and have them issue a charge back (you might or might not have to fill out an affidavit and mail it back but it's only a few minutes of time and most credit card companies will refund you on the spot, especially if you have a higher benefit rated card)  the fact that you have tried to work it out with the merchant is pretty much a gurantee you will get your money back from the credit card company.  Have all your emails ready to support your chargeback if the credit card company ask for them.  From the few times I have been forced to issue a chargeback I have never had to provide supporting documents because the merchant never faught it, probably because they know they only have a very slim chance of prevailing.

 

Even if you used a debit card, if said card has a major credit card logo you are eligable to do chargebacks.


Edited by Flynn, 18 June 2019 - 07:25 PM.

Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#3 Patriots & Tyrants

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 4,527 posts
  • Joined: 05-May 11

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:28 PM

My best advice? Blow it up on their Facebook page, it will be very public and you will get a message PDQ if they are any sort of reputable company. That is your best path to becoming "whole" and getting the right holster.



#4 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:37 PM

My best advice? Blow it up on their Facebook page, it will be very public and you will get a message PDQ if they are any sort of reputable company. That is your best path to becoming "whole" and getting the right holster.

 

Do that after the chargeback for a double whammy!


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#5 Craigcelia

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,508 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 09

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:43 PM


My best advice? Blow it up on their Facebook page, it will be very public and you will get a message PDQ if they are any sort of reputable company. That is your best path to becoming "whole" and getting the right holster.


 
Do that after the chargeback for a double whammy!

Beat me to it....dispute the credit card charge. That will get their attention.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Craig

NRA / ISRA Life Member

GOA Member
ICCL Classes Available

 

 

 


#6 Mick G

    Former Member

  • Members
  • 1,120 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:48 PM

My best advice? Blow it up on their Facebook page, it will be very public and you will get a message PDQ if they are any sort of reputable company. That is your best path to becoming "whole" and getting the right holster.

 

From personal experience I have learned that if a company has poor CS on the phone or in Emails, they don't care what kind of fuss you raise. I'm not saying don't try it but don't have high expectations. Properly documented, a charge back works 100% of the time, a lot of people never even realize that option is available to them. Concerning firearms, ammo and firearm related things I have received absolutely horrible CS from what most people would consider excellent companies. I also have received unbelievably great customer service form a rather large distributor of firearms. The CEO actually intervened and we spoke about one his dealers which actually ended up with us becoming friends. Call them, ask for the highest person up the chain and if they still tell you to take a hike, do the charge back. Some of the most reputable companies have have some horrible reviews and sometimes this can be a particular person in CS or just how the company approaches CS. Some companies will grow too big and not care about a few horrible reviews here and there. They figure their name and some 5 star reviews will offset them. Give them one last chance to make it right and let them know if they don't, you will be doing a charge back.



#7 Raw Power

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 1,382 posts
  • Joined: 26-April 16

Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:17 AM

Take a 5 second video of the gun not fitting in the holster, and send it to them. If they still don't fix the problem, post that video to their facebook/yelp/instagram, along with their response.

 

The chargeback should get you your money back, but it won't alleviate the frustration of having to deal with them. A sincere apology (and fixing the problem) goes a long way towards making your time investment feel worthwhile. Hopefully you'll get that.



#8 djmarkla

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 335 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 13

Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:29 AM

Hopefully you can get your money back. When you do, give Black Rhino Concealment a call.

#9 RECarry

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 2,397 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 12

Posted 19 June 2019 - 06:46 AM

I'd suggest speaking with the credit card company in a generic way, given the "Operation Choke Point" nonsense that some banks participated in voluntarily. Just say the company sent the wrong product that does not fit and cannot supply a replacement, instead of leading with "they sent the wrong holster for my gun". You just want results, even if it's a liberal snowflake who takes the CS call. 


A woman's "Right to Choose" the abortion issue starts with the words "No!", "Stop!", and "I am armed!".

#10 Glock23

    I am no one.

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 4,451 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 13

Posted 19 June 2019 - 07:55 AM

I'd suggest speaking with the credit card company in a generic way, given the "Operation Choke Point" nonsense that some banks participated in voluntarily. Just say the company sent the wrong product that does not fit and cannot supply a replacement, instead of leading with "they sent the wrong holster for my gun". You just want results, even if it's a liberal snowflake who takes the CS call. 

I'd keep it generic as well, but be more specific, otherwise they may think you just ordered the wrong size shirt or something.

You ordered a custom fit case for a specific piece of equipment which does not fit, and they refuse to (not can't) send a replacement.

Edited by Glock23, 19 June 2019 - 07:55 AM.

** Illinois Carry - Supporting Member
** National Association for Gun Rights - Frontline Defender
** Gun Owners of America - Annual Member
** Illinois State Rifle Association - 3 year American Hero Member
** Second Amendment Foundation - Life Member
** National Rifle Association - Patron Life Member

#11 jim schad

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 176 posts
  • Joined: 26-June 14

Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:45 AM

Believe adding the sending back of the holster is also part of solidifying the charge back, in that you can then say to the "Card Company," "They have my money and I have NO MERCHANDISE."



#12 jlbaugh72

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 15

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for all the tips, everyone.
I never knew about chargebacks so I now see an option. Thank you
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit."

"Men exist for the sake of one another, teach them then or bear with them."

#13 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:21 PM

Believe adding the sending back of the holster is also part of solidifying the charge back, in that you can then say to the "Card Company," "They have my money and I have NO MERCHANDISE."

 

I have never had to send the item(s) back when doing a charge back, I would guess that is only required when the seller actually puts up a fight, in all my cases the seller never disputed or faught the chargeback or at least I was never asked to counter any claims or followup after my initial chargeback call and paperwork.

 

I have talked to a few business owners over chargebacks, they have all told me the same thing, the credit card company is working for the card holder and you as the merchant have to prove beyond a doubt they are lying and that you as the merchant did everything you could to fix the situtation and that you followed all the fgine print in your merchant account contract before they will even consider reversing the chargeback.  In this case where the OP says the seller refused the return and claims to have emails to support that, I would say it's a near slam dunk for them to get their money back and the merchant doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

Also of note, some of the higher perk credit cards don't even issue a charge back, they just absorb the refund under their customer satisfaction gurantee, I know for example American Express will issue a refund under their own gurantee if you are unable to return an item for any reason within 90 days.


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#14 Euler

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,730 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 18

Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:13 PM

Thanks for all the tips, everyone.
I never knew about chargebacks so I now see an option. Thank you


I'm always astounded that merchants seem to think customers don't know about chargebacks and rely on it. It's a bit off-topic, but it's on the merchant to deliver the product to you. It's the merchant that buys shipping insurance. It's the merchant that collects shipping insurance if the merchandise arrives damaged. There are lots of merchants that claim that if the customer doesn't buy shipping insurance, the customer doesn't get a refund for damaged merchandise. It's never the customer that buys shipping insurance. That's basically the merchant just calling the customer an idiot, because I strongly doubt merchants who do online ordering don't know how online ordering works. Customers have the power of chargeback, no insurance premium required. It's built in to the service.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#15 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:14 PM

I'm always astounded that merchants seem to think customers don't know about chargebacks and rely on it.

 

 

Yeah, there is no shortage of merchants the try to keep it a secret, or maybe they don't know either.  The first chargeback I did was at a big box hardware store many years ago, bought a chainsaw even picked up a one gallon gas can for the mixed gas while I was there, stopped by the gas station on the way home put a gallon of gas in the can and used the included pre-measured 2-cycle mix oil that came with the saw.  I have been mixing 2-cycle since I was a young child so it's not like it was my first rodeo.  Went home filled up the chain saw and started it up, it idled for about a whopping 10 seconds then seized up.  Took it back to the store and they wanted to argue with me that it was my fault for not using the correct 2-cycle mix, needless to say when I asked them straight up if they were accusing me of not being able to use the included 2-cycle oil and dump/mix it into a gallon of gas in the 1 gallon gas can I just purchased, the manager said "Yes you used the wrong mixture and voided the warranty"  Once he said that I said fine, I'll just issue a chargeback and get my money back, the manager was puzzled and asked what that was, when I explained he said "You can't do that" needless to say the joke was on him.


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#16 borgranta

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,866 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 12

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:05 PM

I recently ordered an Optio holster from them for my Glock 19 with PL Mini Valkyrie and the holster does not accept my firearm.
I wrote them and their customer service people are either clueless or apathetic. The holster is not for my gun, they won't exchange it and they told me to sell it if I can't use it, to which I asked them to identify it, (because it's not what I ordered) and they swear it's the gun/ light combo I ordered, even after seeing pictures of it.
My gun will not seat in the holster. I have loosened the screws completely, and I still have to press as hard as I can to get the gun about half into the holster at which time it goes out of battery. (Unloaded the whole time obviously.)
I'm at a loss. I'm out nearly $100 and have a product that I can't even resell in good conscious.
Any advice?
This experience has put me off to them and I will never turn to them again.

You could probably report them to the FTC since they sound like they are violating consumer protection laws that the FTC enforces. You could also report them to the consumer product safety commission since this sounds like a potentially deadly design defect.
The following referral code will grant provide a new User of Uber a free ride up to $15
donaldd4557ui

#17 borgranta

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,866 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 12

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:11 PM

I recently ordered an Optio holster from them for my Glock 19 with PL Mini Valkyrie and the holster does not accept my firearm.
I wrote them and their customer service people are either clueless or apathetic. The holster is not for my gun, they won't exchange it and they told me to sell it if I can't use it, to which I asked them to identify it, (because it's not what I ordered) and they swear it's the gun/ light combo I ordered, even after seeing pictures of it.
My gun will not seat in the holster. I have loosened the screws completely, and I still have to press as hard as I can to get the gun about half into the holster at which time it goes out of battery. (Unloaded the whole time obviously.)
I'm at a loss. I'm out nearly $100 and have a product that I can't even resell in good conscious.
Any advice?
This experience has put me off to them and I will never turn to them again.

You may also be able to report them to the attorney general in their state and yours since they are likely violating consumer protection laws of both states. If they used the US mail to rip you off they likely also committed mail fraud, mail fraud can be reported to the postmaster general.
The following referral code will grant provide a new User of Uber a free ride up to $15
donaldd4557ui

#18 jlbaugh72

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 194 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 15

Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:30 PM

This situation got resolved!
I don't know if I got a new customer service person or just caught them on a bad day at first but they're doing what they can to make it right now, and have offered me a discount code for my next purchase.
Due to the custom holster design they won't take it back so I'll be selling the incorrect version soon.
Despite the headache and hassle of the situation, and many emails talking it through with them, this situation has resolved quite fairly for me.

Anyone want to buy a holster? Lol
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit."

"Men exist for the sake of one another, teach them then or bear with them."

#19 Mick G

    Former Member

  • Members
  • 1,120 posts
  • Joined: 26-September 17

Posted 20 June 2019 - 11:01 PM

This situation got resolved!
I don't know if I got a new customer service person or just caught them on a bad day at first but they're doing what they can to make it right now, and have offered me a discount code for my next purchase.
Due to the custom holster design they won't take it back so I'll be selling the incorrect version soon.
Despite the headache and hassle of the situation, and many emails talking it through with them, this situation has resolved quite fairly for me.

Anyone want to buy a holster? Lol

 

"Call them, ask for the highest person up the chain and if they still tell you to take a hike, do the charge back. Some of the most reputable companies have have some horrible reviews and sometimes this can be a particular person in CS or just how the company approaches CS. Some companies will grow too big and not care about a few horrible reviews here and there. They figure their name and some 5 star reviews will offset them. Give them one last chance to make it right and let them know if they don't, you will be doing a charge back."

 

A lot of times these situations are CS people having a bad day. You never know what might of happened right before they read your Email. I'm glad they resolved it and it was painless. At least you learned about the ability to do a charge back so that's also good.



#20 oohrah

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 246 posts
  • Joined: 11-May 15

Posted 21 June 2019 - 09:36 AM

A good example of why you should always use a credit card online and never a debit card. You have more protections with a CC.
USMC, Retired
Waco, Texas
Texas LTC
Illinois CCL
SASS 105352

#21 Cerus

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,297 posts
  • Joined: 24-January 16

Posted 22 June 2019 - 02:16 AM

A good example of why you should always use a credit card online and never a debit card. You have more protections with a CC.


Debit cards have the same protections. Sometimes shorter timeframes but the same otherwise.

#22 oohrah

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 246 posts
  • Joined: 11-May 15

Posted 22 June 2019 - 05:00 PM

A good example of why you should always use a credit card online and never a debit card. You have more protections with a CC.


Debit cards have the same protections. Sometimes shorter timeframes but the same otherwise.

No. They don't. Your checking account can be cleaned out of your cash and you will have a hard time getting it back. CCs have a $50 liability limit.
USMC, Retired
Waco, Texas
Texas LTC
Illinois CCL
SASS 105352

#23 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,696 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 23 June 2019 - 01:14 PM

 

 

A good example of why you should always use a credit card online and never a debit card. You have more protections with a CC.


Debit cards have the same protections. Sometimes shorter timeframes but the same otherwise.

No. They don't. Your checking account can be cleaned out of your cash and you will have a hard time getting it back. CCs have a $50 liability limit.

 

 

If you debit card has a major credit card logo they essentially have the same protections, it's part of the branding agreements.  Yes, the laws are different between credit and debit cards in regards to liablity, but all the major credit card companies and most major banks essentially treat them the same and far supass the law with internal policies and agreements.

 

When I was doing a lot of international buying for my company I was having debit cards compromised all the time, never lost a penny, every claim went through 100% and the banks always credited my account the same day albeit telling me that if they found the charge legit they would re-debit, they never did.  And I have experienced $1000s in fraudulent charges, has someone once buy 4 round trip tickets from the Philippines to the US, had the money back in my account within hours not a penny lost and they told me that even if I overdrafted because of fraudulent charges they would reverse any overdraft fees.

 

Call you bank and inquire if you feel your debit card offers the same fraud protections, if they don't I would suggest switching banks.


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users