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Shepard v. Madigan - Orals - 10/3/2013


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#1 skinnyb82

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:27 PM

Todd suggested I start a thread. The opinion should be out soon. If it's over 4 pages we've got problems. Over 8 and we're screwed. Just listen to this, I had to so you better too *grin*. Just listen to Posner's ego take over.



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#2 Sweeper13

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

Thanks for the post. Listening now..here we go

#3 THE KING

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

I think we're screwed. And that's only after the first few minutes of listening to Posner

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#4 TyGuy

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:34 PM

6 words, 6 friggin words
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#5 THE KING

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

Good Lord, I think we are really screwed

What don't they understand about a constitutional, fundamental right

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#6 miztic

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

Just curious, how does the length of the opinion screw us harder?
I expect a 1 page flat out denial "get outta here" type opinion.

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#7 Matt B

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

Just curious, how does the length of the opinion screw us harder?
I expect a 1 page flat out denial "get outta here" type opinion.


That's what I don't get... How screwed can we get here worse than "wait for the permits"

#8 THE KING

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

Glad I'm not a lawyer, cause I would have told the judge to STFU and then you guys would be bailing me out of jail.

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#9 colt-45

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

i couldn't lesson after about three mins so, i know how this is going to turn out.

#10 skinnyb82

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

On behalf of Todd, his over/under is 4 pages. If it's 4 pages, then we're fine. If more than 8, we're screwed in a bad way.

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#11 colt-45

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

did the judge just say that the state can take as long as they want? WOW

#12 TyGuy

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:48 PM

What do you mean screwed? He have the law. Are you saying that they would basically endorse the state to take as long as they want to implement it?
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#13 largefarva

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

I made it about 5 minutes before I had to turn it off. Wow is all I can say. Not looking good for us at all. I'm sure the state just got the green light to drag their feet as long as they feel like because he just gave them permission.

#14 THE KING

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

What do you mean screwed? He have the law. Are you saying that they would basically endorse the state to take as long as they want to implement it?


That's the way I heard it. So, if the state decided it would take five years to implement the carry process, well, OH WELL !!

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#15 TyGuy

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

Got it. Guess I didn't expect any less than for the state to take as long as they could.
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#16 jpearson

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

Thanks skinny any guess when to.expect opinion?

#17 bobapunk

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

They can't take 5 years... The FCCA gave them a finite amount of time...

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#18 RINGKINGS

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

Sounds like Posner has Pre Judged this....... he does not even let Thomas finish his thought and is essentially acting as the attorney for the state........apparently just being a judge is an automatic license to be rude and prejudiced.......the IL states attorney could stay home on this one, Posner is doing their work for them.
I COULD AGREE WITH YOU, BUT THEN WE WOULD BOTH BE WRONG.
ONE STATE ONE LAW

#19 TyGuy

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

With no penalty for non-compliance, like the FOID system.
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#20 BobPistol

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:01 PM

Stick a fork in it. This case is done. We're screwed.
The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#21 BobPistol

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

They can't take 5 years... The FCCA gave them a finite amount of time...


And the FOID card law requires 30 days issuance. And look at how things are now.
The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#22 Googe1227

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:08 PM

They can't take 5 years... The FCCA gave them a finite amount of time...

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True. But no penalties if they fail. Just like 30 days to issue FOID. What do they care?

You get the jist from the audio but it was much worse to actually be there.

ETA crap, everybody beat me to my first sentence.

Edited by Googe1227, 03 October 2013 - 04:11 PM.

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#23 RonOglesby - Now in Texas

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

"Today Mary Shepard suffers the same"...
Contrary to popular opinion, no one owes you anything.

#24 transplant

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

On behalf of Todd, his over/under is 4 pages. If it's 4 pages, then we're fine. If more than 8, we're screwed in a bad way.

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Todd thinks that if it's under 4 pages, it will be short, and won't change the situation much. If it's over 4 pages, then the majority opinion may have a lot more detail and set precedent that we won't like. The additional precedent(s) being set is the big danger.

#25 RonOglesby - Now in Texas

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:22 PM

Not sure why they even heard it, if this was the point. Why not just not accept their appeal and let the moot ruling stand?

This is why the legal system here confounds so many in this country. I mean if you are a judge and believe that they lower courts ruled properly (and not just properly, but so properly you dont let the lawyer speak) why even take the appeal. Very strange. Totally sounds like the mind was already made up, why even bother?

Edited by RonOglesby, 03 October 2013 - 04:23 PM.

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#26 tkroenlein

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

That was maddening to listen to. How did you guys restrain yourselves?! While Posner's legal reasoning could be spot on, he was just plain rude. Thompson got cut off every time he spoke. That was very unprofessional of Posner.

#27 armadroid

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Whelp, time to move I guess...

#28 bob

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:39 PM

I like the way the judge is trying to get to the meat of the issue, rather than beating around the bush.

The judge is right that the mandate was for the state to change the law.

Edited by bob, 03 October 2013 - 04:45 PM.

bob

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The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

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#29 transplant

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:51 PM

The biggest problem with the way things went today, IMHO, is that prior to today, the state and the city may have been somewhat afraid of how things could potentially go for them in court. For example, look how the SAs are reluctant with UUW.

After Posner laid into our attorney, the attorney representing the state strutted up to the podium, took a fraction of his allotted time, and sat down, with total confidence.

That confidence is going to be seen in the future behavior of the state and of northern municipalities.

#30 Awan

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:03 PM

You can hear the Chicago anti-gun tone in the judges' statements. Was one comparing constitutional carry to being a cop and having similar training?

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