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People v. Mosley Cook Co. AGUUW


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#61 TyGuy

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:37 AM

Put the pedal to the metal and get out of their jurisdiction? Jk. I trust Todd, he'll get it done.
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#62 cshipley92

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

Constitutional carry with pre-emption would be fine.


Preemption is the kicker. How unfun would it be getting arrested for being pulled over on 294 for the breif little stretch through Chicago?


Don't speed, obey all traffic laws, and hope they don't make up an excuse to stop you.

If they do, you could become our new hero when you take them to court for violating your second amendment rights. :)
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#63 Elderberry

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

Constitutional carry with pre-emption would be fine.


Preemption is the kicker. How unfun would it be getting arrested for being pulled over on 294 for the brief little stretch through Chicago?


Well, personally the only way I would find out is if the hearse hauled me to Chicago while the mortician slipped a piece in the coffin with me -- 'cause that's the only way you will ever get me up there again. It's a matter of personal pride...

But for you good folks who are trapped up there I strongly support preemption....

I'll put something clever and witty here when I think of something.........

NRA, ISRA, SAF... Vet.. Former LEO... Current Illinois Concealed Carry Permit Holder....


#64 Grey Beret

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

Well, personally the only way I would find out is if the hearse hauled me to Chicago while the mortician slipped a piece in the coffin with me -- 'cause that's the only way you will ever get me up there again. It's a matter of personal pride...

But for you good folks who are trapped up there I strongly support preemption....


ABSO-DAM-LUTLEY

Edited by Grey Beret, 23 March 2013 - 12:58 PM.


#65 vezpa

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

It may seem to most that Chicago/Cook are the only Illinois areas opposed to carry, I really do believe that if any Counties/Cities/Villages are allowed to opt out that you will see a new fight when many other places try and pull the same opt out crap. Parts of Dupage, Lake and Will will come first. Remember Cook County BS is like a disease that spreads and its influence everywhere in this state is blatantly apparent. Rockford, Champaign/Urbana and Carbondale pop into my head also as areas that aren't exactly "gun-friendly" and could go soon after.

The next time some fool makes National attention with a shooting, your City/County/Village could be next. We need to look ahead and anticipate these things happening and prepare for them. Don't just stare at what is right before your eyes in your little town or area and think everything is OK. Look at what is happening in Colorado right now. Who would haveever thought? JM2cents.

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#66 RockerXX

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

Don't speed, obey all traffic laws, and hope they don't make up an excuse to stop you


Not speeding on i294 will likely draw more attention to you and honestly put your life in jeopardy or at least increase your chance of causing an accident 10 fold...

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#67 KarlJ

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

I'm 99% sure constitutional carry will not happen in Illinois. Even if we get shall issue, the politicians will have some control on who gets to carry. Without a law, any foid holder gets to carry. Not that that's a bad thing, but I think the public would freak out when the media let's loose that anyone can carry because politicians failed to craft a law.
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#68 Grey Beret

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

I am not sure that would be a bad thing. At all. We have presented a bill. We have supported a bill that has more restrictions than I would like to see. So maybe some public outrage wouldn't be such a bad thing.

#69 Drylok

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

I hadn't heard about this ruling, but abolt brought me up to speed today. Made for a very enjoyable lunch together. I continue to be amazed at these things that pop up time to time even right there in Chicago. It seems there have been a few as of late, like this and a couple people using justified use of force in the home then it turns out they didn't have a CFP yet don't get charged. Things like this suggests there may be hope even for that heck hole.
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#70 Tvandermyde

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

Can one of the legal types find an electronic version of it?


You guys are gonna smile when you read it

Its that good. I posted some of the parts, but it is a solid decision.


Someone please keep an eye towards Chicago. If we see smoke, you know its big
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#71 RockerXX

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

Can one of the legal types find an electronic version of it?


I looked on PACER and didn't see it, also looked on the courts website and couldn't find it... I think it's going to take someone requesting a hard copy and scanning it in, or making a trip downtown to pick up a copy...

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#72 jrsavoie

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:11 AM

Kirk Dillard is in the Senate and I only know what I read in the funny papers Abolt.
I made a post three years ago and I think I made abolt mad at me. In fact, I had to go look up the public act with the number etc. Hmmm Oh, well.

I know that Todd has supported Dillard in the past so I may have hacked him off too. Didn't mean to do that, but facts are facts. This guy may be worthy of our support, but we should not ignore his warts.

http://www.infowars....son-gun-owners/

Illinois Senator Wants to Imprison Gun Owners


May 5, 2010


The Illinois General Assembly has passed HB 5832 a Bill that makes carrying a firearm in Illinois without a valid FOID card a mandatory 1-3 years in prison.
Under current law, carrying a weapon without a valid FOID card allowed for probation but once enacted the new law removes any and all chances of probation even for a first time offense. The Bill has yet to be signed by the Governor but it appears to be a done deal unless a grassroots effort is made to stop it.
The new law was sponsored in the Illinois Senate by Kirk Dillard, who was recently endorsed by the ISRA for Governor on the republican ticket.
HB5832 sounds like a strong tool to fight crime until you actually read the “Aggravated Unlawful Use of a Weapon” Law in Illinois. Under section 24-1.6 the mere carrying of a firearm is considered an Aggravated offense. This includes carries on or about ones person or in any vehicle


This law made hunting on an expired FOID, a felony with mandatory jail time. Many people have found themselves in this situation. It happens the same as it happens with drivers licenses. People just get busy with life and forget.

#73 jrsavoie

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

Maybe our anti-constitution legislatures can quit playing games with their amendments and get that 997 out there and passed


I'd settle for HB1155 with all amendments stripped off except HFA 27!


Do not ever settle. If we are going to settle, it should be for Constitutional carry. Never encourage our legislators to vote for a bad bill

#74 jrsavoie

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

Am I missing something? It seems like the court was essentially saying that the mere possession of a firearm does not qualify as a crime punishable as a felony. Is that an over reach on my part?


Yeah, basically with a hook... He said that they can charge you with either a misdemeanor or a felony with a mandatory 1 year in prison for the exact same crime with no additional qualifiers or circumstances necessary to be charged with a felony over the misdemeanor, thus disproportionate penalties for the same crime and a violation of your 8th Amendment Rights...


Off topic - So the mandatory jail time for speeding bill is OK because it sets 30 mph over the limit as a qualifier for a felony with 6 months in jail?
Hopefully somebody will respond to this because I do not understand how the speeding bill differs so much as far as the Constitutionality of the law.

#75 RonOglesby - Now in Texas

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:40 AM

Off topic - So the mandatory jail time for speeding bill is OK because it sets 30 mph over the limit as a qualifier for a felony with 6 months in jail?
Hopefully somebody will respond to this because I do not understand how the speeding bill differs so much as far as the Constitutionality of the law.


The way I read this is this. Imagine you had 2 Speeding laws. one said 30 MPH over you get a ticket and the other says felony and 1 year in jail. Same act, nothing else. just two state laws and is arbitrary which one the cop or prosecutors charge you with.

Which law did you break? If both, and they are both identical how can one be a simple ticket and the other a mandatory year in jail?

That is what he pointed out here. You have two laws and can be charged with either one, but very different penalties and no difference in why you get a Mis A or a Felony.

(Besides that fact that he also said that the law requires a 20 Year old to have a FOID but does not allow the 20 Year old to get a FOID without a parent... I didnt know that BTW. But I cant believe it. I was in the military at 17 and cant believe at 19 or 20 the state of illinois would have had me get a signature from my mommy for a FOID card... A 3 year active duty member of the military asking his mommy for a signature on a FOID card?

And dont say it doesnt happen here. I had plenty of friends that were stationed at great lakes for A school and perm duty up there.
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#76 soundguy

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

The Illinois legislature... Crafting bad law for over half a century.

Edited by soundguy, 24 March 2013 - 08:56 AM.

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#77 colt-45

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:21 AM

we only hope that the courts will find that the FOID card is unconstitutional before this becomes a new law.

#78 Lou

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

From Second City Cop.



Sunday, March 24, 2013

Aggravated UUW Unconstitutional?


Looks like it might be - and by a Cook County judge no less. From our friend Todd Vandermyde and the people over at IllinoisCarry.com:

  • there is a new case I received in the mail today so some of the legal types might want to pul it up and post it here.

    People v. Donta Mosley
    decided 3/15/13
    cook county criminal division
    12-CR-5646-01
    Judge Michael Brown

    20 year old on a AG UUW. Judge says sentencing guide lines require mandatory 1 year, because minor with gun, NO FOID.

    But finds that 18, 19 & 20 years olds can't sign for their own FOID and creates due process violation and declares 720 ILCS 5/24-1.6 6(d)(2) unconstitutional.

    thy also find the disproportionate penalties and again declares the AGG UUW unconstitutional

    WOW

    then goes onto say unconstitutional on its face AND as applied

    he gets a Class A at the end of it.
The discussion gets rather involved throughout the message board, but a number of people with more info than we have say this has major ramifications for any number of bills currently up for discussion, including Concealed Carry - ramifications that will hinder the gun-grabbers.

Check back with IllinoisCarry.com and the ISRA website for updates as the legislature stumbles through their dog-and-pony show.

And look for a bulletin from Legal Affairs about this - they'll have to address it in short order.
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#79 Sharz96

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:15 AM

It may seem to most that Chicago/Cook are the only Illinois areas opposed to carry, I really do believe that if any Counties/Cities/Villages are allowed to opt out that you will see a new fight when many other places try and pull the same opt out crap. Parts of Dupage, Lake and Will will come first. Remember Cook County BS is like a disease that spreads and its influence everywhere in this state is blatantly apparent. Rockford, Champaign/Urbana and Carbondale pop into my head also as areas that aren't exactly "gun-friendly" and could go soon after.

The next time some fool makes National attention with a shooting, your City/County/Village could be next. We need to look ahead and anticipate these things happening and prepare for them. Don't just stare at what is right before your eyes in your little town or area and think everything is OK. Look at what is happening in Colorado right now. Who would haveever thought? JM2cents.

I think you are EXACTLY right. 30 years ago, no, but that was a generation ago, and today there are SO many more people who have no experience whatsoever with firearms, not personally, not indirectly through other family, extended family, and friends. So they are ignorant and indifferent. And ignorant and indifferent people will not stop the antis. And yes, Crook County BS is spreading. I lived in Lake or Cook since 1995 and I've seen it spread in that time.

Edited by Sharz96, 24 March 2013 - 10:16 AM.


#80 GWBH

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

I love this case - this may become a lot bigger than any of us anticipate (with the exception of Todd!!)

That said, the 7th CA gave the ILGA 180 days to come up with a "reasonable" carry bill - to me that means passed by both houses and signed into law. Don't know that for sure but that's what I see. Constitutional carry without a "reasonable" law in place stands in violation of the court's order - am I incorrect?

Also - carving out zip codes from RTC would also stand in violation of the 7th's direction of "reasonable" along with may issue (some get to exercise their rights, while some don't based on the rationale of some bureaucrat)... Someone tell me what I'm missing here...

I want to see Madigan, Cullerton and all the anti-gun Dems in Cook Co go down in flames with a lawsuit back in court over not passsing a reasonable bill as directed.

Edited by GWBH, 24 March 2013 - 10:32 AM.

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#81 abolt243

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Maybe our anti-constitution legislatures can quit playing games with their amendments and get that 997 out there and passed


I'd settle for HB1155 with all amendments stripped off except HFA 27!


Do not ever settle. If we are going to settle, it should be for Constitutional carry. Never encourage our legislators to vote for a bad bill


You need to READ HFA 27 and compare it to the initial HB997. If you would, you'd discover that it's HB997 language. That's why I said I'd "settle" for it. If you get HB1155 with ONLY HFA27 on it, you would effectively have HB0997 with the tweaks that we put on it.
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#82 Jfl0

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

but I think the public would freak out when the media let's loose that anyone can carry because politicians failed to craft a law.


Let them squirm in their pants. Maybe then they will care enough to throw out bad officials.
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#83 Indigo

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

I love this case - this may become a lot bigger than any of us anticipate (with the exception of Todd!!)

That said, the 7th CA gave the ILGA 180 days to come up with a "reasonable" carry bill - to me that means passed by both houses and signed into law. Don't know that for sure but that's what I see. Constitutional carry without a "reasonable" law in place stands in violation of the court's order - am I incorrect?

Also - carving out zip codes from RTC would also stand in violation of the 7th's direction of "reasonable" along with may issue (some get to exercise their rights, while some don't based on the rationale of some bureaucrat)... Someone tell me what I'm missing here...

I want to see Madigan, Cullerton and all the anti-gun Dems in Cook Co go down in flames with a lawsuit back in court over not passsing a reasonable bill as directed.


Moore allows them 180 days to pass a reasonable law, it does not require them to pass any law whatever. The decision simply invalidates parts of the UUW and AGUUW law dealing with the possession of guns outside the home. The language signals that if this matter comes before CA7 again, the state is likely to get slapped up side the head by the appeals court. It's also a signal to the district courts as to how they should rule when the ILGA's crap comes before them. The issues will have to come up through the courts from lawsuits/requests for injunctions as they are filed by the NRA/SAF/ISRA.
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#84 Grey Beret

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

but I think the public would freak out when the media let's loose that anyone can carry because politicians failed to craft a law.


Let them squirm in their pants. Maybe then they will care enough to throw out bad officials.


Oh, that is funny. By the way you forgot the purple ink.
This is a religion to the left ya know

#85 colt-45

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

so do i need to cut up my FOID CARD than? they ruled it unconstitutional didn't they?

#86 TTIN

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

You need to READ HFA 27 and compare it to the initial HB997. If you would, you'd discover that it's HB997 language. That's why I said I'd "settle" for it. If you get HB1155 with ONLY HFA27 on it, you would effectively have HB0997 with the tweaks that we put on it.


Yeah and it'd have Madigan's name on it.Wouldn't that be a hoot? :frantics:
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#87 Grey Beret

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:11 PM

so do i need to cut up my FOID CARD than? they ruled it unconstitutional didn't they?


YES

#88 lockman

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:12 PM

so do i need to cut up my FOID CARD than? they ruled it unconstitutional didn't they?


They did not rule on the FOID act, just the way the AG UUW laws deal with it. The best part was the unconstitutional nature and application of AG UUW for multiple reasons.

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#89 mrpapageorgio

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:21 PM

Was anybody planning on retrieving a hard copy or able to find a copy online? If not, I can try to get a copy tomorrow when I'm out or Tuesday after the breakfast at the Union League Club.

Edited by mrpapageorgio, 24 March 2013 - 07:35 PM.

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#90 cshipley92

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

Was anybody planning on retrieving a hard copy or able to find a copy online? If not, I can try to get a copy tomorrow when I'm out or Tuesday after the breakfast at the Union League Club.


Can one of the legal types find an electronic version of it?


I looked on PACER and didn't see it, also looked on the courts website and couldn't find it... I think it's going to take someone requesting a hard copy and scanning it in, or making a trip downtown to pick up a copy...


Looks to me like no one found it online (I looked and couldn't find it either) so if you were willing to do that I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know it Todd was going to get a copy or not.
Frederick Douglas "A man's rights rest in three boxes. The ballot box, jury box and the cartridge box."