10 replies to this topic

[GlockShooter]

The last thread was getting long and hard to follow.  Since the CCW resolution is being discussed at tonight's board meeting, I figured it was worthy of a new thread.

Good luck, guys.  Let us know how it goes.

[TTIN]

Good idea,Glock.I was thinking the same thing.

[MWG321]

I'm anxious as to how things turned out.

[Buzzard]

I don't want to dampen anyone's spirits, but I feel we must consider all possible courses of action. My question is what is our possible legal options if Winnebago county states attorney Philip Nicolosi stands firm that Winnebago county Sheriff Dick Meyers cannot lawfully issue permits. While Sheriff Meyers publically pledges his support of concealed carry, he has also stated he will not issue if told he cannot legally do so.

While I do not have any legal training, I have a times heard about long buried or concealed legal principals or standards that some say do not exist. Whether these legal avenues do remain hidden in law books or merely exist as legal heresay need to be researched.

Does the sheriff of an Illinois county hold unlimited power? Does the will of the people and their legal options end with a county resolution? If the county board passes a resolution to issue permits, but the sheriff refuses to do so, what are our legal options?

[Kaeghl]

Well, let's see. Nicolosi is out of office here pretty soon, thanks to that last election. Attorney Prorok is in, and from a conversation I had with him, he's of the mind that it would be better to let the courts decide. Then it would be the Law of the Land. Since the State's Attorney is a county post, then he'd have to make a judgement call on it....Is he going to follow County Law, or cave in to State Bureaucratic fudging? It might be an idea to sound him out somehow on this, and perhaps see if he's amenable to being advised and having the points and precedences pointed out for him in a respectfull way. Attorneys (and Judges) love precedences, it makes their jobs a lot easier. Heck, everyone likes guideposts of some kind when dealing with new areas and topics.

One such guidepost might be, that in Penn, the sherrifs issue the CCW, NOT the state. How many of us have a Penn. CCW card in our wallets? And since sherrifs have the ability to do criminal background checks, that should be one more little point in favor of the sherrif being able to issue the CCWs.

And if anyone cares to double check me, I believe that the sherrif's power IN his county has already been decided in court, at circuit court level. Something about the sherrif being the highest elected LEO official in a county, and his powers EXCEED the powers of State or Federal LEO's, and their agencies. I saw the link in post #28 on the original Winn Co CCW thread, Winnebago county weighing gun resolution.

Our options if the sherrif refuses to issue, is to go to court.  Personally, I'd hate to do that. I mean, the sherrif has already come out in favor of it, and he knows he's going to be stuck in the middle no matter what he does. It would be a shame to have to take him to court over it when he likes the idea but knows he'd get sued either way.

Did someone mention that the NRA would do that for us? Help out with the legal-eagles AND the cost to the county? Or am I mistaken on that? Now, that would be a great public relations idea. Suing the county to get county law enforced, officially, but not costing the county a dime. Care to make fools of yourselves, you gun ban organizations? Go ahead, bring suit, but the (drum roll) Good Guys are doing the same but NOT punishing the county.

[Don Gwinn]

If he's refusing on advice of legal counsel, one option is to get him more legal advice and find someone who can address the concerns of the county's attorney, thus removing the obstacle.  Whether that's possible or not would remain to be seen.

Alternatively, if the sheriff could be convinced to issue one permit in order to allow a test case to go forward (for that purpose, in other words, and with the understanding that the purpose to start a fight and see who's right) then it would make sense to go against the advice of his legal counsel.  That might be workable with enough public pressure; he would have to be shown that the citizens want him to follow through with it.  He is, after all, an elected official, so even if we take him at his word on his feelings about CCW, it's asking a lot for him to go against the popular will to advance CCW in court.  Going WITH overwhelming popular will shows him that even if he loses in the courts, he's not going to get the blame.

That's how I see it at this moment, anyway.  If I have any brilliant flashes of insight, you'll be the first know.  I wouldn't wait up.  

[SAK]

You're absolutely right, Don.  I think nothing could help us better now than public support.  I'm going to focus some more energy on just that.

Additionally, I think it would serve us all well to work with the board, the states attorney, and sheriff and ensure that the wording of this resolution is as strong as possible before passing and before it is inevitably tested in the courts.

My .02


By the way, I was going to tell you something last night Don but got interrupted.  One of the highlights of the evening for me was when you were speaking and had people raise their hands if they've been to other states.  Then the best line was "Have you SEEN concealed carry."  You almost had me and Weisman on the floor laughing -- very nice point!!

Also how did your video turn out?  I think we need to make sure we record the next one as well, and post it all on the net for people to see.  That would help us take away that biased monopoly the regular media has.  Instead of their lacky writers describing what went down to those who weren't there -- people can watch for themselves!!!

[mikew]

SAK, on Jun 11 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

[SNIP] Then the best line was "Have you SEEN concealed carry."  You almost had me and Weisman on the floor laughing -- very nice point!! [/SNIP]

Yes, that really got me!

[Don Gwinn]

I'm glad you liked it.  It's an old schoolteacher trick--don't let people sit and listen to a lecture.  People need a job to do, or their attention wanders.  That part is not on the tape, unfortunately, because while I was speaking my son thought it would be a good idea to take the camera off the tripod--by holding the screw in place and spinning the camera.  It's a little disorienting to watch on the camera's screen, but I think on a large TV it could cause serious nausea.

The rest of the tape seems to be good, but it's giving me fits trying to get it off the camera and into a true digital format that we can post.  The computer keeps telling me that another program is using the camera, and then it tells me that the USB connection can't finish because there was "an error."  Every time.  I've gone so far as to go into program manager and kill every process I dare, even stuff that shouldn't have anything to do with the camera, but I can't get it to work.  

I wonder if a Kinko's or someplace similar would make this transfer for a fee.

[Slappy]

Don Gwinn, on Jun 11 2008, 08:15 PM, said:

I'm glad you liked it.  It's an old schoolteacher trick--don't let people sit and listen to a lecture.  People need a job to do, or their attention wanders.  That part is not on the tape, unfortunately, because while I was speaking my son thought it would be a good idea to take the camera off the tripod--by holding the screw in place and spinning the camera.  It's a little disorienting to watch on the camera's screen, but I think on a large TV it could cause serious nausea.

The rest of the tape seems to be good, but it's giving me fits trying to get it off the camera and into a true digital format that we can post.  The computer keeps telling me that another program is using the camera, and then it tells me that the USB connection can't finish because there was "an error."  Every time.  I've gone so far as to go into program manager and kill every process I dare, even stuff that shouldn't have anything to do with the camera, but I can't get it to work.  

I wonder if a Kinko's or someplace similar would make this transfer for a fee.

Wolf or Ritz camera can do it...

do you have video capture/editing software?

[Molly B.]

Trying to help everyone tidy up the Winnebago threads and make them easier to follow. Kenny has started a thread posting the who, what, when, and where's so we'll all know where to go when. For general discussion please go to the general discussion thread.

Good job folks.

Molly B.