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Small Fry straw buyers aren't WORTH prosecuting


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#1 markthesignguy

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:05 AM

From the August 12, 2019 National Review article by Kevin D. Williamson:

 

https://www.national...9lC-Wm58fIm-Fe0

 

 


Police, prosecutors, and policymakers: All of them respond to incentives, just like anybody else. Gun control provides a textbook example of that.

It is remarkable how little our elite law-enforcement agencies and prosecutors are willing to do when it comes to policing the criminal use of firearms. The U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, whose office has responsibility for Chicago, has for years maintained a policy of refusing to prosecute most straw-buyer cases unless they are part of a larger organized-crime investigation, partly because those cases are a lot of work and partly because they tend to net a lot of sympathetic defendants, the girlfriends and grandmothers and nephews with clean records who buy firearms illegally for convicted felons.

 

Local officials in Chicago and Illinois practically never pursue gun-trafficking cases: As ProPublica reports, between 2014 and 2017 Cook County authorities charged only twelve gunrunning cases and zero gun-trafficking cases. Chicago police made only 142 arrests for illegal gun sales over the course of a decade — and no arrests at all for gun trafficking. Of the many arrests for illegal possession of firearms, few led to prosecutions and fewer still to convictions. Similar stories play out less dramatically in jurisdictions around the country and in the federal system: Thousands of gun purchases are wrongly approved in federal background checks every year, but the ATF makes no effort at all to recover those guns.

 

 
 

There are reasons for that. The people who are driving Chicago’s sustained murder problem are young and mobile. Chasing them is hard work, catching them is harder still, and convicting them brings very little in the way of headlines or glory.

 

This has boiled my blood.

 

Frankly - while I don't know the legal principles/foundations of the  Law, A straw buyer IMO is a lot better candidate for Felony Murder.  Let a few of THOSE go down, and the whole south side would have their panties in a twist. NOONE would be able to claim "ignorance of the law"....


Edited by markthesignguy, 09 October 2019 - 01:16 AM.

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#2 Euler

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:25 AM

From the August 12, 2019 National Review article by Kevin D. Williamson:
 
National Review

... partly because those cases are a lot of work and partly because they tend to net a lot of sympathetic defendants, the girlfriends and grandmothers and nephews with clean records who buy firearms illegally for convicted felons.
...

...


Necessarily they are people with clean records. People without clean records would be unable (or at least less successful) to straw-purchase firearms. Also grandmothers should know better and probably do.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

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#3 bmyers

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 05:15 AM

If I'm reading the article correctly, the have taken the same approach with straw purchases as they have with marijuana. Both are illegal, yet unless it involves a large amount (guns or drugs) they aren't going to waste the time. If this is the approach, then both laws need to be done away with. 


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#4 POAT54

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 06:33 AM

I was heard a retired LEO say something very similar to this, and we all know it is true.

 

 

Our police agencies police these law-abiding people and their businesses because they are easy to police.


“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
― Benjamin Franklin

 

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#5 mrmagloo

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 07:15 AM

I think the bottom-line is, instead of prosecuting and punishing those people who ARE breaking the damn law, they'd rather punish law abiding gun owners by changing the laws and making them criminals.  Let's not forget that the guns they are trying to take from law abiding citizens are many times less likely to be involved in felony crimes compared to guns purchased illegally - But that doesn't matter either. Straw buyers are exactly who we should be making examples of, along with the criminals who end up with the illegal guns.

 

See, they don't care about all of that. The only thing in the back of their empty heads is, just make all guns illegal so we don't have to deal with grandma and be the bad guys.



#6 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 07:23 AM

If you prosecute these people you would often put people in jail that were manipulated or intimidated into doing the crime.

The person you need to really prosecute is the person who received it, a felon with a handgun that's not short time...

 

This kind of reminds me of DUI's (never had one) but I've witnessed a whole of of them.   

They are just like normal tickets until you get the third one it just cost you a S..T load of money but you are still driving to get it.  :pinch:  

Is this right, frankly unfortunately yes, I just wouldn't want to be the judge that had to make that decision, really bad things could happen. 

Good young kids do make mistakes (especially if drugs get involved) not having a driving license is significantly life changing, future might be shot. 


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#7 Talonap

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:06 AM

If you prosecute these people you would often put people in jail that were manipulated or intimidated into doing the crime.

The person you need to really prosecute is the person who received it, a felon with a handgun that's not short time...

 

This kind of reminds me of DUI's (never had one) but I've witnessed a whole of of them.   

They are just like normal tickets until you get the third one it just cost you a S..T load of money but you are still driving to get it.  :pinch:  

Is this right, frankly unfortunately yes, I just wouldn't want to be the judge that had to make that decision, really bad things could happen. 

Good young kids do make mistakes (especially if drugs get involved) not having a driving license is significantly life changing, future might be shot. 

 

Put ALL of them in jail! If someone is, manipulating or intimidating someone - report THEM before turning yourself into a felon.



#8 Molly B.

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:08 AM

Both the straw.purchaser and the person buying/getting the firearm from them should be prosecuted under federal law.. one gun or 20 guns.

 

It would not take long for word to get around and a lot fewer people would do straw purchases.


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#9 soundguy

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:17 AM


I am reminded of a woman in Palatine who bought 4 Glocks a couple years ago. Two of them ended up in the hands of persons who were not eligible to have guns. IIRC... one of the guns was involved in a shooting in Chicago. I don’t recall that she was fully prosecuted.
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#10 357

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:34 AM

I am reminded of a woman in Palatine who bought 4 Glocks a couple years ago. Two of them ended up in the hands of persons who were not eligible to have guns. IIRC... one of the guns was involved in a shooting in Chicago. I don’t recall that she was fully prosecuted.


I think you're talking about this one.

https://www.dailyher...news/170419171/
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#11 soundguy

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 10:04 AM

I think that’s the one... paywall! Mount Prospect or Palatine... out that way somewhere. There was also a connection to an ineligible person in Barrington? Gang ties?
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#12 Bubbacs

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 10:37 AM

12 months probation

And yet the signs at gun shops every where say if you buy some someone else it’s 10 years behind bars
So which is it
Cause I could supplement my fixed income easily if it’s probation only

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#13 jim123

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 04:54 PM

Stealing 16 pallets of guns is only worth 9 years.

 

https://wgntv.com/20...spect-at-large/

 

The latest info...

https://www.ammoland.../#axzz61slAYSQs



#14 Bubbacs

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 05:32 PM

Intelligent purveyors of firearms there.
Why stash the load and only drive around with a few, 3/4 and not get caught hauling around a trailer full?
Driving down the streets of the south side with the window down calling out like the ice cream man would seem to be the way they do bitnez there!

#15 Jeffrey

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 05:49 AM

This is how places like Chucks get a bad rap. The authorities let it happen. Punish them all to the fullest extent of the law. Enough of the *****footing from judges and Prosecutors. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#16 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 09:43 AM

Both the straw.purchaser and the person buying/getting the firearm from them should be prosecuted under federal law.. one gun or 20 guns.

 

It would not take long for word to get around and a lot fewer people would do straw purchases.

 

I respectfully disagree the law gets very difficult and fuzzy when family or relationships get involved it's hard for a women to prove she was intimated or whatever. 

 

12 months probation I'm fine with, I mean we are talking one gun not a crate full, jail nope.  


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#17 mrmagloo

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 10:09 AM

 

Both the straw.purchaser and the person buying/getting the firearm from them should be prosecuted under federal law.. one gun or 20 guns.

 

It would not take long for word to get around and a lot fewer people would do straw purchases.

 

I respectfully disagree the law gets very difficult and fuzzy when family or relationships get involved it's hard for a women to prove she was intimated or whatever. 

 

12 months probation I'm fine with, I mean we are talking one gun not a crate full, jail nope.  

 

 

Let me get this straight.  The logic the prosecutors try to suggest is, these straw buyers are are doing this against their will, being manipulated, and exploited - even perhaps threatened.  Or, perhaps a possible excuse could be they bought the weapon for themselves, and the felon family member stole it.  The list could go on.

 

No doubt, a ONE - TIME occurrence could potentially offer a reduced sentence - even supervision, BUT, if this claim is proven, they MUST throw the felon who received the weapon totally under the bus, and HE/SHE is charged with the additional crime against the family member.

 

However, all that goes out the window when we start talking about multiples, which is really the situation here.  Multiple straw gun purchases confirms the person in advance knew the outcome, and proceeded anyway.  No excuses there.

 

The point is, these liberal prosecutors and politicians themselves are making up all sorts of excuses on why they don't do their jobs, period. Not doubt, in many cases, they depend on the votes of the same people involved here, so there is a conflict they don't want to deal with. In the meantime, they will gladly support restricting, even outlawing guns on those primarily conservative 2A gun owners, who would never vote for them any way.  Much easier to stay in office when you don't put your voter base in jail.



#18 guzzimike66

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 10:56 AM

The politics of bail reform: Part I

 
The politics of bail reform: Part II
 
​I watched this the last 2 nights and Kim Foxx essentially said the same thing. It's not worth prosecuting for carrying a gun without a FOID or CCW. So frustrating!


#19 Euler

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 12:25 PM

The politics of bail reform: Part I
https://wgntv.com/20...l-in-gun-cases/
...

...
Bail reform advocates may not agree.

They say fewer than one percent of people out on bond in Cook County are re-arrested for a violent crime. But Chicago police rarely make arrests in shooting cases, which means no one knows for sure who’s pulling the trigger.


WGN

...
Changes in the court system have allowed nearly 900 gun-offenders out of jail in recent months, and of those individuals, Preckwinkle says "99-plus-percent of the people are out on electronic monitoring or on their own recognizance are not re-arrested for a violent offense."

"Less than one percent are picked up for a new violent offense," Preckwinkle said.

Chicago police data tell a different story.

In the last four months, 892 people arrested on a felony gun charge were able to post bond, even though roughly half had previous felony gun arrests. Of those individuals, 75 have been re-arrested. That's a 12-percent re-arrest rate for those out on bond.
...


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#20 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 01:21 PM

 

The politics of bail reform: Part I

 
The politics of bail reform: Part II
 
​I watched this the last 2 nights and Kim Foxx essentially said the same thing. It's not worth prosecuting for carrying a gun without a FOID or CCW. So frustrating!

 

 

Considering we shouldn't be required to have either a FOID or CCW like more then a dozen other states, I don't see a problem.

 

Not a felon, not a problem. 


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#21 Bubbacs

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:46 PM

Grab a stick we're going to beat the Mule



#22 tkroenlein

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 10:49 PM

Isn't being subjugated a wonderful thing.

Now we clamor for enforcement against the thing we say shouldn't be regulated in the first place.

The correct question to ask is why is the violent offender walking the street anyway?

#23 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:05 AM

Grab a stick we're going to beat the Mule

 

We could do that a lot. 

 

I'm AMAZED at what police don't prosecute, in DuPage county if you have less then a POUND of pot and are delivering it door to door in baggies, misdemeanor AND if they search your home and they find more AND a firearm (no foid), more misdemeanor's.   Wow I really wanted this person to go to jail. 

 

They want to make a lot of money (especially DUI's)  but unless they really have to your not going to jail for almost anything rather um petty.... 

p.s. this person finally went to jail after selling cocaine to a undercover police officer, 4 year sentence out in 3 months (boot camp). 

Hope he has a nice life - someplace else. 

 

I'll close that vent now, got to get to Church..... 


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#24 FST_Kent

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 09:37 AM

It would not take long for word to get around and a lot fewer people would do straw purchases.

 

 

Word gets around when a particular store always spots them.

 

There's a few scenario's of straw purchases.  We were trained to spot them.  They're incredibly obvious situations too.

 

We just stopped a sale in it's tracks or refused delivery of a firearm and gave them their money back.  Oh, and we called our competitors down the road as they were walking out the door.



#25 cybermgk

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Posted 05 November 2019 - 10:20 AM

If you prosecute these people you would often put people in jail that were manipulated or intimidated into doing the crime.

The person you need to really prosecute is the person who received it, a felon with a handgun that's not short time...

 

This kind of reminds me of DUI's (never had one) but I've witnessed a whole of of them.   

They are just like normal tickets until you get the third one it just cost you a S..T load of money but you are still driving to get it.  :pinch:  

Is this right, frankly unfortunately yes, I just wouldn't want to be the judge that had to make that decision, really bad things could happen. 

Good young kids do make mistakes (especially if drugs get involved) not having a driving license is significantly life changing, future might be shot. 

So you flip the straw purchaser to get to the real 'bad' guy.  But to do so, you have to prosecute, then make a deal.


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