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ISP Changes to May 2014 Instructor Rules & Regs.


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#31 jazzemt

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:39 PM

I take it that these rules replace the emergency rules. Correct?



#32 bobapunk

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:33 AM

--In Section 1231.30©(1)( :cool:, change "training rosters:" to "written training rosters that
shall include:


So they expect hand written rosters?

 

I don't like the "shall" in the rules...

 

I though that roster thing was a suggestion on a way that record keeping could be done.  I have a different system and it has worked out fine so far...



#33 Molly B.

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:50 AM

What they sent out last January was a suggested/recommended practices because it has not been approved by jcar.

The amended changes have now been approved and going forward instructors will need this list of info in their files.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#34 Molly B.

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:51 AM

--In Section 1231.30©(1)( :cool:, change "training rosters:" to "written training rosters that
shall include:
So they expect hand written rosters?

 
I don't like the "shall" in the rules...
 
I though that roster thing was a suggestion on a way that record keeping could be done.  I have a different system and it has worked out fine so far...

What type of system have you been using?
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#35 Craigcelia

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:10 AM

It's ridiculous they don't notify instructors directly of these changes.  Then again, I can't ever expect it.


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#36 JSharp

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 08:19 AM

It's ridiculous they don't notify instructors directly of these changes.  Then again, I can't ever expect it.

 

 

It's worse than that. Not only did they not notify anyone, they cannot even provide an updated set of instructor duties and responsibilities. How do I know this? I just called.

 

I was told ISP no longer provides instructor packets with this information and no one could tell me where I might find them. They're going to call me back...


Edited by JSharp, 01 October 2014 - 08:19 AM.


#37 wtr100

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:13 AM

Working on a spreadsheet for this and it looks like BUTT at this point ...

working this with multi day course is a pain

Edited by wtr100, 01 October 2014 - 09:21 AM.

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#38 Molly B.

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:42 AM

It's ridiculous they don't notify instructors directly of these changes.  Then again, I can't ever expect it.

 

They will have to post the info on the instructor portal and/or send out letters/emails.  They cannot hold instructors accountable if they do not inform them, in some way, what the rules are.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#39 Pipedoc

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 09:57 AM

They don't have it up on the instructor portal yet unless I missed it. Hopefully soon.

I see they are still saying that scored hits must still be inside the scoring ring and not anywhere in the silhouette.

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#40 Molly B.

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:06 AM

They don't have it up on the instructor portal yet unless I missed it. Hopefully soon.

I see they are still saying that scored hits must still be inside the scoring ring and not anywhere in the silhouette.

 

I find that totally unacceptable.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#41 Craigcelia

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:11 AM

They don't have it up on the instructor portal yet unless I missed it. Hopefully soon.

I see they are still saying that scored hits must still be inside the scoring ring and not anywhere in the silhouette.

 I just noticed that also. Wow.


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#42 Pipedoc

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:14 AM

Yes.

ISP could definitely make improvements to the timeliness and accuracy in in the way they share information.

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#43 abolt243

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:18 AM

I'm thinking Molly is on the phone about now.


Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
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#44 JSharp

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:30 AM

 

It's ridiculous they don't notify instructors directly of these changes.  Then again, I can't ever expect it.

 

They will have to post the info on the instructor portal and/or send out letters/emails.  They cannot hold instructors accountable if they do not inform them, in some way, what the rules are.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. That's why I called and asked specifically for the current rules, or where they could be found. Their entire  process is flawed and stinks of a bunch of amateur legal types playing CYA while attempting to shove everything onto the instructors. Everyone needs to shove back.


Edited by JSharp, 01 October 2014 - 10:32 AM.


#45 bobapunk

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 10:51 AM

 

 

--In Section 1231.30©(1)( :cool:, change "training rosters:" to "written training rosters that
shall include:
So they expect hand written rosters?

 
I don't like the "shall" in the rules...
 
I though that roster thing was a suggestion on a way that record keeping could be done.  I have a different system and it has worked out fine so far...

What type of system have you been using?

 

 

A combination of a spreadsheet, NRA Course Reports (for NRA and non-NRA classes), and training outlines on which the students initial off each topic covered and sign, date, fill in start and end times, etc.



#46 xd9subcompact

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:17 AM

Gone is the use of the same certificate for the 3 hour renewal course? Another certificate to be developed later for that?



#47 JSharp

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 12:44 PM

We have about 4 years to worry about renewals. Making information available that's needed NOW is something that should be taken care of YESTERDAY.


Edited by JSharp, 02 October 2014 - 12:46 PM.


#48 Tango7

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:38 PM

We have about 4 years to worry about renewals. Making information available that's needed NOW is something that should be taken care of YESTERDAY.


You're assuming that {D}a creators of the authorizing Bill and the process that arose as a result actually supported the idea of an armed populace, not that they would be dragged kicking, screaming and lying misrepresenting the issue the entire way.

Simple fool...
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#49 JSharp

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:22 PM

 

We have about 4 years to worry about renewals. Making information available that's needed NOW is something that should be taken care of YESTERDAY.


You're assuming that {D}a creators of the authorizing Bill and the process that arose as a result actually supported the idea of an armed populace, not that they would be dragged kicking, screaming and lying misrepresenting the issue the entire way.

Simple fool...

 

 

Naw. I'm putting on my happy face and trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Assuming oversight or incompetence are more common than malice etc.

 

Never would I imagine this was intentional. Not even for a moment...



#50 aka

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 05:16 PM

I have created this roster in Microsoft Word Format. Some of the stuff can be printed before the class and the rest handwritten 

 

Please feel free to use it. If you modify it please post to the forum so we can share any improvements. 

 

Thanks.

Attached Files


Edited by aka, 02 October 2014 - 05:16 PM.

Thank you

 

Arvind Aggarwal

aka@aka123.com

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IL CCW License Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Member
Glock Armorer
 


#51 danbrew

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:44 AM

Is there a new ISP Certificate? I looked at the short form PDF somebody posted and towards the end of that it looks like they have lined through the form. Is there a new one available?

Thx, danbrew

#52 Molly B.

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:12 AM

Is there a new ISP Certificate? I looked at the short form PDF somebody posted and towards the end of that it looks like they have lined through the form. Is there a new one available?

Thx, danbrew

 

The certificate is available in the Instructor portal on the CCL4Illinois.com website.  I plan to check there before issuing any certificates in the future.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#53 wtr100

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:19 AM

Is there a new ISP Certificate? I looked at the short form PDF somebody posted and towards the end of that it looks like they have lined through the form. Is there a new one available?

Thx, danbrew

 
The certificate is available in the Instructor portal on the CCL4Illinois.com website.  I plan to check there before issuing any certificates in the future.


so part of pre-class prep now includes

1. verify you're still listed as an instructor
2. verify yet another new certificate hasn't been put out

:P

Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, 60 rounds powder and ball and be ready to march at a minute's warning

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#54 armadroid

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 10:51 AM

So now all hits have to be within the #7 scoring ring? That's pretty accurate for some carry guns. 



#55 Molly B.

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 11:03 AM

So now all hits have to be within the #7 scoring ring? That's pretty accurate for some carry guns.


No, shots just have to be on the silhouette.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#56 Drylok

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 11:12 AM

Theres a new certificate again? I just made copies of the one ive been using for class this weekend
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks"
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#57 danbrew

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 05:13 PM

I was on an airplane today when I posted that question.  I'm home now and just checked.  The one on the instructor portal is pretty much the same thing as the one that was up there in January.  The template that I use looks identical to the one that is on the instructor portal *except* the January 2014 version has a footer that says "ISP 2-640 (1/14)".  The one that is up there now (on the portal) does not have this footer.

 

But, yeah, exactly - ISP isn't doing a great job of reaching out to the instructors and providing updates or notifying us of changes.  I can't imagine the Jan 2014 document would be rejected.  But what do I know?


Edited by danbrew, 03 October 2014 - 05:13 PM.


#58 Gaius

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 06:21 AM

I have created this roster in Microsoft Word Format. Some of the stuff can be printed before the class and the rest handwritten 

 

Please feel free to use it. If you modify it please post to the forum so we can share any improvements. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Appreciate your form. NOTE, however, it appears under the new rules that you cannot simply state total hours of instruction, rather you must now specifically break down all the hours to show they meet the specific area requirements of the law. 

 

"vii) total hours attended, broken down to identify hours per topic covered as approved

in Section 1231.40;



#59 aka

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 10:38 AM

 

I have created this roster in Microsoft Word Format. Some of the stuff can be printed before the class and the rest handwritten 

 

Please feel free to use it. If you modify it please post to the forum so we can share any improvements. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Appreciate your form. NOTE, however, it appears under the new rules that you cannot simply state total hours of instruction, rather you must now specifically break down all the hours to show they meet the specific area requirements of the law. 

 

"vii) total hours attended, broken down to identify hours per topic covered as approved

in Section 1231.40;

 

 

Understood. My thought was to attach the class schedule which has this breakdown by topic to the rosters.  Will that be sufficient ? Breaking it down for each student seems silly.


Thank you

 

Arvind Aggarwal

aka@aka123.com

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IL CCW License Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Member
Glock Armorer
 


#60 howie

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:40 AM

Good grief.  Nothing like changing (AGAIN!!!!) everything we have set up.  If I didn't enjoy the instructing part so much I'd probably say "Forget it!"

 

Just checked the ISP Instructor info page.....still says hits have to be inside the 7 ring.  Furthermore, it says nothing about the latest rule changes.  Time to call Unes again, I guess.

 

Are any of you using the "sample" roster ISP sent out early this year?


Edited by howie, 09 November 2014 - 09:49 AM.

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