chancemccall Posted August 16, 2019 at 10:25 PM Share Posted August 16, 2019 at 10:25 PM Illinois Chapter 5, paragraph 25.22(h) of the Illinois State Code makes it illegal for any dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker, to manufacture, sell or deliver to anyone, except another gun dealer licensed by the Federal government, any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver that has a die casting of zinc alloy or any other non-homogenous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of 800 degrees Fahrenheit or less. This law was passed in October, 1973. O.K. There has been a discussion about the new Ruger Wranglers as they do not meet these standards at ISP. Apparently they are ignoring this law for the time being given all the cheap semi autos that have been showing up on a regular basis for a number of years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:24 PM Share Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:24 PM It's usually only an issue for 22LR guns (e.g., Walther PPK/S in 22LR made by Umarex, SIG Mosquito made by GSG), since they're the ones made from cheap metals. Before gun dealer licensing, some FFLs ignored it, and some didn't. It's a racist law meant to keep "Saturday night specials" out of the hands of blacks and Latinos during the unrest of the civil rights movement. After gun dealer licensing, I'm sure Illinois will enforce it if it wants, just because it can, even if you're not black, not Latino, not intending to use it to overthrow the state capitol or city hall, and not intending to use it to resist the fascists who prop up the teetering capitalistic imperium when they try to oppress you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onytay Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:31 PM Share Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:31 PM Illinois Chapter 5, paragraph 25.22(h) of the Illinois State Code makes it illegal for any dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker, to manufacture, sell or deliver to anyone, except another gun dealer licensed by the Federal government, any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver that has a die casting of zinc alloy or any other non-homogenous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of 800 degrees Fahrenheit or less. This law was passed in October, 1973. O.K. There has been a discussion about the new Ruger Wranglers as they do not meet these standards at ISP. Apparently they are ignoring this law for the time being given all the cheap semi autos that have been showing up on a regular basis for a number of years now. The Ruger Wrangler has an aluminum frame that melts well above 800 degrees, and the info received directly from Ruger shows that they meet IL requirements. Where is this discussion that hey do not meet the requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onytay Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:41 PM Share Posted August 16, 2019 at 11:41 PM Here the email response from Ruger regarding the melting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted August 17, 2019 at 12:29 AM Share Posted August 17, 2019 at 12:29 AM There have been bills submitted in the past to change the melting point value to 700 but as usual, they cant even get called to committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted August 17, 2019 at 04:03 AM Share Posted August 17, 2019 at 04:03 AM This bill is specifically targeted at Zamak and Zamak like zink alloys.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak This was traditionally what the ring of fire "Saturday night specials" were made of. Bryco, Jennings, Lorcin, Raven and Phoenix, etc. Hi Point still makes thier slide out of this material, hence their ban in Illinois. The Wrangler's gripframe and trigger guard is zinc alloy, but the part of the frame around the cylinder is aluminum. This would be the functional frame, and the gripframe is auxiliary. Heat it up to 800 degrees and it's still "a functional firearm" without the parts that melt off. any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver Barrel: Cold-Hammer Forged Carbon SteelCylinder: Carbon Steel, Unfluted, Black Oxide FinishCylinder Frame: Die Cast A380 Aluminum Alloyhttps://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/5/6/tested-ruger-wrangler-22-lr-single-action-revolver/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 17, 2019 at 05:32 AM Share Posted August 17, 2019 at 05:32 AM This bill is specifically targeted at Zamak and Zamak like zink alloys.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamak This was traditionally what the ring of fire "Saturday night specials" were made of. Bryco, Jennings, Lorcin, Raven and Phoenix, etc. Hi Point still makes thier slide out of this material, hence their ban in Illinois.S&W Sigma .380 had a Zamak slide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2A4Cook Posted August 17, 2019 at 11:43 AM Share Posted August 17, 2019 at 11:43 AM Hey, it saved us from crappy Lorcin .25's that blew up in your face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTHunter Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:24 AM Share Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:24 AM There has been a .22 revolver advertised a few times locally that, when I first checked into it a few years ago, found it to be "unavailable" for this reason. It is a "Heritage" that, like the Ruger, can be had with a second cylinder for .22 Mag. The people I asked that had it advertised in their circular said it was because part of the gun would melt but they didn't know the full details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:30 AM Share Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:30 AM Hi point banned? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:44 AM Share Posted August 18, 2019 at 04:44 AM Hi point banned? Hmm. I believe all HiPoint pistols have ZAMAK slides. ZAMAK guns aren't banned from ownership in Illinois, just for FFLs to transfer them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted August 19, 2019 at 01:15 PM Share Posted August 19, 2019 at 01:15 PM I believe all HiPoint pistols have ZAMAK slides. ZAMAK guns aren't banned from ownership in Illinois, just for FFLs to transfer them. Do you know when that was put into effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 19, 2019 at 01:31 PM Share Posted August 19, 2019 at 01:31 PM Do you know when that was put into effect? Illinois Chapter 5, paragraph 25.22(h) of the Illinois State Code makes it illegal for any dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker, to manufacture, sell or deliver to anyone, except another gun dealer licensed by the Federal government, any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver that has a die casting of zinc alloy or any other non-homogenous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of 800 degrees Fahrenheit or less. This law was passed in October, 1973. O.K. There has been a discussion about the new Ruger Wranglers as they do not meet these standards at ISP. Apparently they are ignoring this law for the time being given all the cheap semi autos that have been showing up on a regular basis for a number of years now. 45 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird76Mojo Posted August 19, 2019 at 05:46 PM Share Posted August 19, 2019 at 05:46 PM Funny thing, I've seen numerous Rural King stores selling High Point pistols for years now... As well as other firearm retailers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted August 19, 2019 at 06:12 PM Share Posted August 19, 2019 at 06:12 PM Funny thing, I've seen numerous Rural King stores selling High Point pistols for years now... As well as other firearm retailers..Exactly what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted August 21, 2019 at 05:52 AM Share Posted August 21, 2019 at 05:52 AM Funny thing, I've seen numerous Rural King stores selling High Point pistols for years now... As well as other firearm retailers.. Hi-Point (or more correclty MKS Supply) stopped selling/distributing their pistols directly to Illinois FFLs in 2017 when Strassell’s Machine, Inc. purchased Hi-Point from the original Beemiller, Inc. and apparently secured or brought with some more knowledgeable lawyers and staffing. I would guess there is still some FFLs that still turn a blind eye (or are ignornant) and are selling them 2nd hand or from a non-official distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel49 Posted August 21, 2019 at 09:42 PM Share Posted August 21, 2019 at 09:42 PM What about Glock and other polymer pistols with the serial number tag molded in. I would think they would melt at 800 degrees.Here again another useless law which did NOTHING!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted August 21, 2019 at 09:45 PM Share Posted August 21, 2019 at 09:45 PM What about Glock and other polymer pistols with the serial number tag molded in. I would think they would melt at 800 degrees. Here again another useless law which did NOTHING!!!! Oh, it did accomplish something. Euler touched on it up in Post #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm1911 Posted August 21, 2019 at 10:04 PM Share Posted August 21, 2019 at 10:04 PM i was at a local gun shop and a lady brought in a hi-point that belonged to her deceased husband. They told her they could not do anything with it because it was not allowed to be sold in Illinois due to this law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted August 21, 2019 at 10:41 PM Share Posted August 21, 2019 at 10:41 PM What about Glock and other polymer pistols with the serial number tag molded in. I would think they would melt at 800 degrees. As said the law was racially motivated against low income minorities aimed at preventing them from buying the lower cost firearms at the time, it was authored before polymer pistols were a thing, thus is makes no mention of polymers and only mentions zinc alloys and non-homogenous metal. In IL we should actually be happy polymer was not added to the law with a law enforcement exemption when they became a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 23, 2019 at 04:44 AM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 04:44 AM ... O.K. There has been a discussion about the new Ruger Wranglers as they do not meet these standards at ISP. Apparently they are ignoring this law for the time being given all the cheap semi autos that have been showing up on a regular basis for a number of years now. The Ruger Wrangler has an aluminum frame that melts well above 800 degrees, and the info received directly from Ruger shows that they meet IL requirements. Where is this discussion that hey do not meet the requirements? I had occasion to drive by MegaSports in Plainfield today. The marquee out front advertises the Wrangler for $209. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yas Posted August 23, 2019 at 02:23 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 02:23 PM Let me guess that a walther ppk/s is also in the melting point category In this mornings email there's an ad from "Shoot Point Blank" advertising a PPK/S for $249.99 but has a banner stating Not available in the state of illinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted August 23, 2019 at 02:29 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 02:29 PM Let me guess that a walther ppk/s is also in the melting point category In this mornings email there's an ad from "Shoot Point Blank" advertising a PPK/S for $249.99 but has a banner stating Not available in the state of illinois That better be the 22 version, if they added Zamak to the 380 I'd be heartbrokenen as it's on my list to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yas Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:01 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:01 PM Yes listed as a .22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:14 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:14 PM Let me guess that a walther ppk/s is also in the melting point category In this mornings email there's an ad from "Shoot Point Blank" advertising a PPK/S for $249.99 but has a banner stating Not available in the state of illinois If it's not made of Zamak, then it's a marketing decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:28 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:28 PM Let me guess that a walther ppk/s is also in the melting point category In this mornings email there's an ad from "Shoot Point Blank" advertising a PPK/S for $249.99 but has a banner stating Not available in the state of illinois If it's not made of Zamak, then it's a marketing decision.A few .22s are listed on the Walther site as restricted in IL due to Melting Point. Buds has their own MP list for IL:Prohibited: Any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver that has a die casting of zinc alloy or any other non-homogenous metal, which will melt or deform at a temperature of 800 degrees F or less- Prohibited: Cobra, Phoenix Arms, Heritage Arms, Walther rimfire pistols, GSG rimfire pistols, Hi-Point pistols and Jimenez Arms. I think Ive seen some 1911 copies in .22 also listed elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:33 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 03:33 PM If it's not made of Zamak, then it's a marketing decision.A few .22s are listed on the Walther site as restricted in IL due to Melting Point. Buds has their own MP list for IL:Prohibited: Any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver that has a die casting of zinc alloy or any other non-homogenous metal, which will melt or deform at a temperature of 800 degrees F or less- Prohibited: Cobra, Phoenix Arms, Heritage Arms, Walther rimfire pistols, GSG rimfire pistols, Hi-Point pistols andJimenez Arms. I think Ive seen some 1911 copies in .22 also listed elsewhere. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 23, 2019 at 09:02 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 09:02 PM I think Ive seen some 1911 copies in .22 also listed elsewhere. Umarex makes the .22LR PPK/S. It has a ZAMAK slide. The Colt .22LR 1911 is also made by Umarex. It has an aluminum slide and (oh no) a ZAMAK frame. People who own the Colt say it's a really nice gun. ZAMAK slides seem to have quality problems, anyway, so that's a reason to avoid them even without the MP law. I haven't heard of any quality problems with ZAMAK frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted August 23, 2019 at 11:55 PM Share Posted August 23, 2019 at 11:55 PM I think Chiappa 22s also have/had Zamak frame but dont know about its melting point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howards Posted August 24, 2019 at 04:58 PM Share Posted August 24, 2019 at 04:58 PM So how would a smartgun do at 800 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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