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Alcohol Consumption and Concealed Carry in Illinois


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#1 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 05:50 PM

OK, I'm treading dangerous and controversial ground with this subject and apologize in advance. But I have researched this and have questions about letter of the law legality VS The Real World. A story of sorts first:

 

My little brother comes into town the other night and my parents schedule/reserve a spot at a very lovely local restaurant...that serves alcohol *but* it is less than 50% of the revenue and there are no signs on the door prohibiting firearms. It's a restaurant and a dang nice one that serves beer and wine as most fine restaurants do. Most members of my family consume alcohol in the form of beer and wine - 2 brothers even home brew some pretty dang good brew. When we all met at the restaurant I had 3 brothers in attendance and we don't see each other but maybe 3X a year...I'm carrying as I always am.

 

We sit at a table and it's hugs and smiles all around...the waitress comes to the table and takes drink and appetizer orders and it's beer and wine all around except that yours truly orders hot tea. No one says a word but I get the raised eyebrow from my older/eldest brother who I know has a concealed carry license but not in Illinois. He knows I have an Illinois Concealed Carry license but obviously has no idea I'm carrying heat.

 

"Not drinking anymore?" Nahhhh....I'm just in the mood for tea and not beer. It's no big deal. We all share a great meal and afterwards as we load my 86 YO+ parents my brother asks me point blank if I'm carrying as there are several odd fellows on the street outside acting furtively. I answer factually. Of course I am...I never leave the house unarmed anymore. Big Brother smiles and hugs me and says "Great...at least someone here is....I guess that's why you abstained from having a beer with your brothers." Exactly. If I drink I don't carry - if I carry I don't drink.

 

But what if? What if I had consumed a single beer with supper? I'm 6'3" and 185 and seriously...I'm not compromised by one Stella Artois. Had I consumed one beer, am I in violation of the law for Illinois concealed carry? Morally and logistically I have never done that and don't see me doing that *but* in the letter of the law am I in violation of my license to sit in a restaurant that derives less than 50% of it's revenue from alcohol sales and drink one beer or have a single glass of wine?

 

Thanks in advance for your insight and apologies in advance for even bringing this up. I'm 60 and have been a professional musician for decades. I drink and understand the consequences but I do not carry and consume and will not. But what is the letter of the law in this regard?

 

VooDoo



#2 RoadyRunner

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 05:56 PM

Had I consumed one beer, am I in violation of the law for Illinois concealed carry?

Only if your BAC exceeds the standard for DUI - 0.08%

Civil liability if something happens, unknown.

Edited by RoadyRunner, 29 June 2016 - 05:56 PM.

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#3 chislinger

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:05 PM

Had I consumed one beer, am I in violation of the law for Illinois concealed carry?

Only if your BAC exceeds the standard for DUI - 0.08%

Civil liability if something happens, unknown.

Where in the law is immunity waived for justified self defense if you had consumed alcohol?
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#4 mic6010

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:14 PM

 

Where in the law is immunity waived for justified self defense if you had consumed alcohol?

 

What immunity is that ? Is there something in the law that says you are not liable for every round you fire ? Regardless of it you're drunk or not.

 

Or are you talking about the IL law that says criminals and their family's can't sue you right ? But even that is not automatic. Its up to the discretion of the prosecutor to give you that immunity in writing. They don't have to sign off on that for you and give you that immunity. Lots of them might given the situation, any grey areas in the story or Cook County I wouldn't count on it. You're going to the cleaners in a civil suit.


Edited by mic6010, 29 June 2016 - 06:21 PM.

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#5 Glock23

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:20 PM

The standards for drinking and carrying are the same as drinking and driving. Some follow the law, others follow a zero tolerance policy. Personally, I believe legal limits are there for a reason, and I have no problem having a beer or two with a meal while carrying.

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#6 quackersmacker

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:24 PM

The standards for drinking and carrying are the same as drinking and driving. Some follow the law, others follow a zero tolerance policy. Personally, I believe legal limits are there for a reason, and I have no problem having a beer or two with a meal while carrying.

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#7 chislinger

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:29 PM

Or are you talking about the IL law that says criminals and their family's can't sue you right ? But even that is not automatic. Its up to the discretion of the prosecutor to give you that immunity in writing. They don't have to sign off on that for you and give you that immunity. Lots of them might given the situation, any grey areas in the story or Cook County I wouldn't count on it. You're going to the cleaners in a civil suit.

If the prosecutor doesn't think you were justified wouldn't you be facing criminal charges?

And again, where in the law is immunity waived if you had consumed alcohol?
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#8 spec5

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:39 PM

I don't like what if's. I can't even deal with a what if when my wife says what if I win the lottery? My answer to the OP is get a real lawyer to answer your question as we only play lawyers here. BTW IANAL. My opinion is only important to me.
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#9 Kaeghl

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:35 PM

As far as the scenario in the restaurant, if I'm asking for coffee or tea, instead of booze and it's commented on, I deflect the topic by saying I'm taking a medication for a sinus infection, and booze would interfere with it.

 

That way, I'm not advertising to anyone (next table, for instance) that I'm carrying.

 

That's worked so far.......



#10 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:42 PM

My impression is that in the case of a shooting *everything* is on the table in a civil suit. It may be justified and no charges filed but when the remaining members of the Dirt Bags family get an attorney, and he interviews the waitress who tells him she served the shooter a beer 40 minutes before the incident, who knows what a jury might say? That's my worry and the reason for my question. Is there anywhere in the law that specifically states that any alcohol is expressly forbidden/illegal when a licensed carrier is carrying concealed?

 

I don't wanna start a disagreement. All of this is academic until it happens to some degree.

 

I have an attorney. I'm only looking for opinions and if anyone can point to a section in the existing law that I might have missed that makes consuming *any* amount of alcohol patently illegal while carrying.

 

VooDoo


Edited by Vodoun da Vinci, 29 June 2016 - 06:52 PM.


#11 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:44 PM

 

That way, I'm not advertising to anyone (next table, for instance) that I'm carrying.

 

That's worked so far.......

 No one commented. My brother merely raised an eyebrow as it is highly unusual for me to not have a single beer with dinner. There was no amount of discourse that could have been interpreted by eavesdropping.

 

VooDoo



#12 MagSlap

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 06:57 PM

Eight keggers in the back of a deuce.5 while draggin' a howitzer...

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#13 84Hawk

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 07:02 PM

I think there are two issues here. If you are discovered to be carrying while under the influence then obviously the BAC comes into play. The other issue is if you are involved in a DGU (either at home or any other place) after you have consumed. You have a right to defend yourself but what happens if you do this while under the influence?

#14 RoyB

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 07:04 PM

I used to be in the same camp until I joined this site. Letter reads while under the influence as described in vehicle code, which is .08.

Second, there are no consequences written if you don't blow like there are with driving. In other words, if you refuse to.blow, they have zero recourse and proof you are under the influence.

I now have a beer or two at dinner without worrying about it. If I know I am going to ie one off, I leave it in the car or at home.

#15 WARFACE

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 07:19 PM

I used to be in the same camp until I joined this site. Letter reads while under the influence as described in vehicle code, which is .08.

Second, there are no consequences written if you don't blow like there are with driving. In other words, if you refuse to.blow, they have zero recourse and proof you are under the influence.

I now have a beer or two at dinner without worrying about it. If I know I am going to ie one off, I leave it in the car or at home.

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#16 mauserme

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 07:45 PM

...
Is there anywhere in the law that specifically states that any alcohol is expressly forbidden/illegal when a licensed carrier is carrying concealed?
...


No, there isn't.
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#17 Mark Fitton

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:10 PM

There's no "immunity" or "waiver" thereof.
A BAC of .08 is merely prima facie evidence of intoxication.
A BAC of .079 or lower neither clears one nor convicts one of anything, really.
As someone pointed out, there's really at least two questions in play. One is the matter of carrying while intoxicated. The other is the matter of alcohol level present in the event of a DGU. In the latter instance, the BAC could become an issue whether its above or below .08. Sort of depends on how "creatively" a proscutor wants to use that and what a jury might make of it.

 



#18 POAT54

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:29 PM

Civil liability would be decided based on the lawyer's a claim of willful or wanton behavior.


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#19 LarryL

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:29 PM

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and

permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?

As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.

The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.

If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.

Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.


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#20 DomG

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:41 PM

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and
permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?
As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.
The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.
If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.
Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.


The same can be said if you had a beer or glass of wine at dinner at a restaurant, then got in your car and had an accident. I assume that you are not a hypocrite and you will not drive for several hours after having a beer or two.

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#21 Cerus

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 08:58 PM

There's no "immunity" or "waiver" thereof.
A BAC of .08 is merely prima facie evidence of intoxication.
A BAC of .079 or lower neither clears one nor convicts one of anything, really.
As someone pointed out, there's really at least two questions in play. One is the matter of carrying while intoxicated. The other is the matter of alcohol level present in the event of a DGU. In the latter instance, the BAC could become an issue whether its above or below .08. Sort of depends on how "creatively" a proscutor wants to use that and what a jury might make of it.


+1

Even if you're below the written limit it doesn't mean a prosecutor wouldn't try to bury you in court with it. BAC isn't a clear yes or no to intoxication. Alcohol affects everyone differently. I subscribe to the no alcohol when carrying philosophy.

#22 LarryL

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 09:07 PM

 

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and
permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?
As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.
The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.
If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.
Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.


The same can be said if you had a beer or glass of wine at dinner at a restaurant, then got in your car and had an accident. I assume that you are not a hypocrite and you will not drive for several hours after having a beer or two.

 

The subject here is drinking and carrying.  I am definitely not a hypocrite as I have no use for alcoholic beverages of any kind.  I do not understand the desire people have to play with the dangers they present and try to excuse their use in any way possible.  

My point was if instructors won't permit them on the range with guns present, what's the difference with recreational use with guns present and a DGU maybe just minutes away.  Guns and cars with alcohol is foolish.

I know the drinkers on here will have a field day with this post, but I expect it from them as they resent anyone putting down their priorities.


Edited by LarryL, 29 June 2016 - 09:11 PM.

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#23 Mark Fitton

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 09:14 PM

 

 

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and
permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?
As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.
The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.
If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.
Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.


The same can be said if you had a beer or glass of wine at dinner at a restaurant, then got in your car and had an accident. I assume that you are not a hypocrite and you will not drive for several hours after having a beer or two.

 

The subject here is drinking and carrying.  I am definitely not a hypocrite as I have no use for alcoholic beverages of any kind.  I do not understand the desire people have to play with the dangers they present and try to excuse their use in any way possible.  

My point was if instructors won't permit them on the range with guns present, what's the difference with recreational use with guns present and a DGU maybe just minutes away.  Guns and cars with alcohol is foolish.

I know the drinkers on here will have a field day with this post, but I expect it from them.

 

If there's no DGU, there's no charge I'm aware of that involves just carrying concealed and being below 0.08.
That said, if there is a DGU or some other incident and opposing lawyer -- prosecutor or civil plaintiff -- has got evidence of alcohol consumption, it's going to come into play.
So, yeah ... if you get into something that leads to a pinch and you've also got your gun and have been drinking, life's going to get complicated and expensive really quick, IMO.

 

 



#24 Vodoun da Vinci

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 04:55 AM

So, I'll use the 4th of July celebrations anf family get togethers/cookouts as an example: I personally don;t have a problem with a concealed carrier that goes to a family picnic and consumes a few burgers and chips and a couple of beers while visiting with the family. Evening comes, we watch fireworks, we all drive home. Nobody knows - nobody cares and a couple beers 5-6 hours ago certainly isn't impairing anyone *I* know to drive or carry. Is it a good idea? Probably not. Can something go wrong? Sure.

 

I was mostly concerned with the "letter of the law". There is nothing expressly written that a concealed carrier that consumes *any* alcohol while in possession of a concealed firearm has committed a chargeable offense that I can find. I really appreciate everyone's comments and input on this - there is a lot of room in this question (these questions) for thought and interpretation. My personal choice is: If I carry, I don't drink - If i drink, I don't carry *but* there is room in that for others who can imbibe judiciously and not get impaired.

 

For me it's not a panacea nor a one size fits all question/scenario. There is room for personal judgement and that, for me, is as it should be.

 

Super thanks for the input!

 

VooDoo



#25 RoadyRunner

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 05:34 AM

where in the law is immunity waived if you had consumed alcohol?
It's not. Civil immunity is based on justification though - and being impaired casts doubt on that in the eyes of some people - possibly even some people on a jury.

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#26 Xwing

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:06 AM

Hi VooDoo,

The law is pretty clear, and has been answered in this thread a few times.

 

Illinois is actually pretty fair on this point.  They use the same standard for driving.  If you are legal to drive w/ a certain amount of alcohol consumption, you are legal to carry.

 

Section 70. Violations

(d) A licensee shall not carry a concealed firearm while under the influence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or combination of compounds, or any combination thereof, under the standards set forth in subsection (a) of Section 11-501 of the Illinois Vehicle Code.


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#27 Cerus

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:17 AM

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and
permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?
As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.
The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.
If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.
Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.

The same can be said if you had a beer or glass of wine at dinner at a restaurant, then got in your car and had an accident. I assume that you are not a hypocrite and you will not drive for several hours after having a beer or two.
The subject here is drinking and carrying.  I am definitely not a hypocrite as I have no use for alcoholic beverages of any kind.  I do not understand the desire people have to play with the dangers they present and try to excuse their use in any way possible.  
My point was if instructors won't permit them on the range with guns present, what's the difference with recreational use with guns present and a DGU maybe just minutes away.  Guns and cars with alcohol is foolish.
I know the drinkers on here will have a field day with this post, but I expect it from them as they resent anyone putting down their priorities.
Well you are sorta being hypocritical. Guns can be dangerous too so I guess we should all give ours away then? In reality, we all understand the risks and take appropriate precautions with guns just as we should with alcohol.

Edited by Cerus, 30 June 2016 - 09:17 AM.


#28 RoyB

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:21 AM

 

 

How many of those claiming no problems with alcohol consumption while carrying are instructors and
permit alcohol on the range before and during classes?
As  it has been pointed out, if a carrier is in a DGU and has been drinking, the ,08 will be irrelevant.
The fact that you were drinking while carrying will cause you great problems with the right prosecutor.
If drinking is that important to you, it's best not to carry unless you just want to be a test case.
Drinking while carrying is just begging for trouble.


The same can be said if you had a beer or glass of wine at dinner at a restaurant, then got in your car and had an accident. I assume that you are not a hypocrite and you will not drive for several hours after having a beer or two.

 

The subject here is drinking and carrying.  I am definitely not a hypocrite as I have no use for alcoholic beverages of any kind.  I do not understand the desire people have to play with the dangers they present and try to excuse their use in any way possible.  

My point was if instructors won't permit them on the range with guns present, what's the difference with recreational use with guns present and a DGU maybe just minutes away.  Guns and cars with alcohol is foolish.

I know the drinkers on here will have a field day with this post, but I expect it from them as they resent anyone putting down their priorities.

 

 

Why are you comparing drinking and Range time with drinking and CC?  Two totally different subjects.  Ranges are private businesses that can permit whatever rules the want.  There is also intentional use of firearms for extended periods of time, vs protecting your life. 

 

If there is now written word saying "you can't do this", then why do you feel the need to try and make those with different "moral" beliefs feel like they are the bad people?

 

I am an Adult and like Adult beverages.  If the law says "it's ok, just don't get wasted", then why not?  The likelyhood of even needing your CC is so minimal that it should almost be a non-topic. 

 

Everyone can make their own decisions if you want to drink or not while carrying, driving, relations, or whatever.  If there's no law against it, there's no law to preach about.  If you don't do it because you don't think it's morally right, or a good decision, then that's totally different.



#29 Xwing

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:32 AM

Hello everybody

 

 

I think we are getting a bit off topic here. 

 

The OP asked about the law.  It has been answered.  Civil liability has "kinda" been answered as well.  There is no real answer there, just that "everything will be considered", but there is nothing special regarding consuming a beer vs. the many other things that would be brought up (type of gun, caliber, number of shots, etc...)

 

Regarding the question "Should you drink while carrying"?  That is a question each person should answer individually, based on their own input and risk tolerance. 

 

Some people decide that they can have a glass of wine with dinner and carry.  That is completely within the law.  That is not a wrong answer.

 

Some people decide (for many reasons) to abstain completely from alcohol while carrying.  That is their prerogative, and is also not a wrong answer. 

 

Everyone makes their own decisions, and we can "agree to disagree" on whether you "should".  But on whether it is "legal", that is very clear. :D


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#30 mauserme

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:36 AM

Well said, Xwing.


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