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Laws regarding firearm transfers from out of state


jawman

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Did not see a pinned post, but what are the laws if an IL resident, who has a valid FOID, is going to receive a firearm via a private transfer from an individual out of state?

Does the receiver, (who does have valid FOID) need to use an FFL?

Is the law different between private person to person sale vs. a family heirloom passed down?

 

Not asking about buying one at a gun store out of state, I already know that has to go to an IL FFL before the buyer can accept it.

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I am not talking about shipping a gun or shipping costs. Has nothing to do with that.

 

1) So if it is a private person to person sale, across state lines, an Illinois FFL must be used? Answer is Yes, this is how I understand it.

 

2) What if it's not a sale, ie a family heirloom passed down? No money, no sale, but is across state lines? Is an FFL still required?

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It's not state law that's relevant. It's Federal law that governs commerce that crosses state boundaries. For firearms, that's the 1968 Gun Control Act.

 

Interstate transfers between non-licensed (i.e., non-FFL) parties must use a mediary licensed in the state of the transferee. Additional state and local laws may apply.

 

I've heard stories of FFLs that don't want to be in the middle of a p2p transfer across state lines, because they don't want to take the risk that it's a stolen gun or whatever. For the moment that it's in the FFL's possession, the FFL could be guilty of receiving a stolen firearm. Considering there are some states that require an FFL in the middle even for in-state transfers, I think the risk is overblown. FFLs can check if the gun is hot and not put their license at risk.

 

Inherited firearms are an exception. Technically you become the owner of the firearm at the moment of the decedent's death, so you're just taking a gun that's already yours across state lines. Worthy of note: The executor of the estate cannot send it to you. You have to go and get it. You can then send it to yourself, if you want. If it's an NFA item, you also have to pay the transfer tax on it.

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Does inherited need to be defined, or does it need to be in a will? If the deceased did not have a will (or did not have their guns in the will), can a surviving family member take ownership of the gun, even if the surviving family member lives in a different state than the one the deceased lived in? (assuming the surviving family member who is taking the deceased family members gun does have a FOID and can legally possess).

 

A friend who has a FOID is asking me. I said I'd have to research it and I don't know for sure. Just want to make sure before she does anything, that the law is followed.

 

 

Also, what if someone lives in a state other than IL, receives a hand me down/gifted firearm from a living family member who also lives in the same state as the recipient. So both are family, and both live in the same state, and both are still alive. The recipient accepts the gifted firearm. The recipient later moves to IL. Nothing needs to be done because they already owned the firearm before they moved?

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Whether or not the inherited firearm must be listed in a will would be a matter of state law where the decedent last resided. Personally, I doubt it needs to be listed, but that's something the executor should check with an estate attorney. There's no Federal requirement.

 

For a transfer between two people who reside in the same state, the transfer just has to comply with whatever state and federal laws apply in that state. If one of them moves to Illinois after that, the only thing that matters is that the person with the firearm needs to comply with whatever local and Illinois state laws apply (e.g., a legally-owned AK47 becomes illegal if she moves to Chicago, because Chicago, unless she stores it outside Chicago).

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I know a guy who's grandfather was a chief of police of a small town in Arkansas who over his life, including stints in WWII and Korean War accumulated a quite a collection. On his passing, left them to his only grandson, and a quick call to the ISP back in the 80's was told, no problem, go get them. No strings attached. Hmm, the good old days. I have no clue what this guy would be told today.

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Inherited firearms are an exception. Technically you become the owner of the firearm at the moment of the decedent's death, so you're just taking a gun that's already yours across state lines. Worthy of note: The executor of the estate cannot send it to you. You have to go and get it. You can then send it to yourself, if you want. If it's an NFA item, you also have to pay the transfer tax on it.

 

What if the person receiving the inherited firearm lives in IL (and has a FOID) but the deceased lived in a different state. Does that still require an FFL transfer since it is across state lines?

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

Lots of what if’s

Grab a lawyer and get the legal answer

Be sure to have all the different scenarios laid out up front

 

Or

 

Possible visit a LGS and ask the OWNER holder of the FFL, not a sales clerk

 

Here's a what if. I have a buddy in Minnesota, we grew up together. I have bought guns from him and vice versa because we are in Minnesota and hence follow that states laws which did change in 2019 but a FFL is not required.

 

I used to go to the Indiana gun shows at their county fairgrounds, the place is swarming with cops, ATF agents but as for private sales, they follow Indiana law. I was seriously thinking of buying a LCP years ago. There was a gun shop that set up a display inside with new guns. I met my coworker who lived in Indiana at the show and handled the gun. He was willing to buy it and do the NICS check and then sell it to me.

 

I could have bought it from the gun shop display case but then it would have to be transferred to a FFL in Illinois, it's not a private sale.

Private sales go by the state law that you are in.

 

The private sales outside of the building rule was something the promoter put up. There were plenty of private sales going on outside.

We are so used to the Illinois FOID nonsense that we forget that there are free states.

When you are in that state you follow their laws and not Illinois.

 

https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html

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Yep... follow the laws of the state you are in, but dont forget about Federal laws:

 

Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. ... He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.

 

If your Indiana friend buys a gun at the Indiana gun show, he may transfer it to you with the help of an FFL in your home state.

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

You always have to follow Federal law, which is that handgun transfers across state lines have to go through an FFL in the transferee's state of residence (except inheritance).

Here's the link to the ATF, where does it say "Handgun sales across state lines have to go through an FFL"?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

Yep... follow the laws of the state you are in, but dont forget about Federal laws:

 

Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. ... He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.

 

If your Indiana friend buys a gun at the Indiana gun show, he may transfer it to you with the help of an FFL in your home state.

 

This was years ago and I really didn't care for the LCPs trigger.

There were a lot of private sales going on outside.

The ATF agents could care. Nobody was bothered.

 

Background Check When Seller Is Not a Licensed Dealer (Private sale)

 

 

Indiana None

Ind. Code § 35-47-2-7: May not knowingly transfer firearms to anyone who is prohibited by federal law from owning them. May not transfer a handgun or assault rifle to anyone under 18 (except within a parent-child relationship).

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

 

You always have to follow Federal law, which is that handgun transfers across state lines have to go through an FFL in the transferee's state of residence (except inheritance).

Here's the link to the ATF, where does it say "Handgun sales across state lines have to go through an FFL"?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

 

The first three questions in the FAQ, in particular the 3rd one.

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

 

 

You always have to follow Federal law, which is that handgun transfers across state lines have to go through an FFL in the transferee's state of residence (except inheritance).

Here's the link to the ATF, where does it say "Handgun sales across state lines have to go through an FFL"?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

 

The first three questions in the FAQ, in particular the 3rd one.

 

How does the person know what state I'm from? I'm well above 18 so ID isn't asked for in a private sale like say in Indiana, the Cabelas doesn't even ask for a FOID card anymore when buying ammo and they are 3 miles from the Illinois border. They don't care about Illinois law.

Plus if I choose to do a dated receipt in a private sale then I guess all of the receipts I have from say 20 years ago are no good anymore?

Oh wait, you don't even have to do receipts.

Every firearm sale that I ever did was in compliance with the law at the time of sale.

See post #17.

The FOID in this one is strong.

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

How does the person know what state I'm from?

...

See post #17.

The FOID in this one is strong.

All parties in a transfer are required to comply with the law. You certainly know what your state of residence is.

 

The ATF at a gun show would presume that all transfers are legal, unless something alerts them otherwise, so they probably thought all transfers were in-state transfers.

 

The FOID is irrelevant. The ATF and this point are all about Federal law.

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

How does the person know what state I'm from?

 

Who in their right mind would sell a firearm to a total stranger, and not ask for ID nor make any record of the sale, nor the name of the person they just sold a gun to? Regardless, law says it cannot be done if interstate. You know what state you live in and you know it is not the same state you are buying the gun in, so you must know you are breaking the law? I would NOT assume that just because the other guy did not l ask for your ID, that does not mean you are off the hook and free from any type of prosecution. Not something I would gamble on!

 

Per ATF: An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.

Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.

 

An unlicensed individual may complete a transfer to an out-of-State person through the following procedure:

-The unlicensed individual transfers the firearm to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) located in the State of the person receiving the firearm.

-The FFL will transfer the firearm to the unlicensed out-of-State person.

-The FFL will be responsible for lawfully transferring the firearm.

 

Link here https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

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Who in their right mind would sell a firearm to a total stranger, and not ask for ID nor make any record of the sale, nor the name of the person they just sold a gun to? ...

There are certain people who refuse to follow any laws, because "what The Man doesn't know can't hurt me."

 

Remember Barry from IraqVeteran8888? Barry got convicted of being in possession of stolen firearms, a felony. He lost the ability to own guns and to work in a gun store, pretty much the two things he loved to do most. I doubt he knowingly received stolen property. He just didn't check, because The Man didn't need to know he was buying guns. *ZAP*

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

 

How does the person know what state I'm from?

...

See post #17.

The FOID in this one is strong.

All parties in a transfer are required to comply with the law. You certainly know what your state of residence is.

 

The ATF at a gun show would presume that all transfers are legal, unless something alerts them otherwise, so they probably thought all transfers were in-state transfers.

 

The FOID is irrelevant. The ATF and this point are all about Federal law.

 

 

The ATF did not care at all. They didn't presume anything IMO.

People were selling guns out of their trunks. Like I said this was years ago.

 

"Who in their right mind would sell a firearm to a total stranger, and not ask for ID nor make any record of the sale, nor the name of the person they just sold a gun to? Regardless, law says it canât be done interstate. You know what state you live in and you know itâs not the same state youâre buying the gun in, so you must follow that federal law."

Your link is dated 2013, my sales were done well before then.

That law was passed after Giffords was shot in the head.

 

"Who in their right mind would sell a firearm to a total stranger, and not ask for ID nor make any record of the sale, nor the name of the person they just sold a gun to?"

 

That kind of freaked me out too but like most I'm of the FOID mindset.

To repeat: Every firearm sale that I ever did was in compliance with the law at the time of sale.

My friend in Minnesota? He used to live here and we both got FOID cards when we were teens.

The laws may change but that doesn't void things done before that change occurred.

You have to be 21 to get a FOID now or own a long gun. It was 18.

You used to just be able to a private sale in Illinois and keep a receipt for 10 years.

I bought my Beretta's in 2004, should I do a validity of the transferee's or purchaser's Firearm Owner's Identification Card? (me)

No. I'm legal and everything I did was legal at the time that I did it. A change in law doesn't make it illegal.

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Posted · Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given
Hidden by mauserme, May 16, 2020 at 02:39 AM - No reason given

 

Who in their right mind would sell a firearm to a total stranger, and not ask for ID nor make any record of the sale, nor the name of the person they just sold a gun to? ...

There are certain people who refuse to follow any laws, because "what The Man doesn't know can't hurt me."

 

Remember Barry from IraqVeteran8888? Barry got convicted of being in possession of stolen firearms, a felony. He lost the ability to own guns and to work in a gun store, pretty much the two things he loved to do most. I doubt he knowingly received stolen property. He just didn't check, because The Man didn't need to know he was buying guns. *ZAP*

 

Every gun I bought used has had their serial numbers checked.

I have a bunch of cops in my family. None were stolen.

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Several posts that were pointlessly argumentative, and others that quoted them, have been removed as unhelpful and ill informed.

 

OP's question is clearly in the present tense, not what might have been legal prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968. It requires answers that rely on an understanding of both state and federal law, most especially federal in the case of interstate transfers.

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