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Improving shooting performance


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#1 MrTriple

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 02:38 PM

I went to the range today and put about 130 rounds downrange. For the record, my weapon is a lightweight, single stack CCW 9mm pistol (PM for make and model, don't like advertising what I own online). I shoot right handed but I am left eye dominant.

Performance was...okay. Many of my intial shots were down and to the right, and with more careful focus on trigger control I was able to get the shots on the center. Nonetheless, I kept having problems shooting low, low and right, or left.

Part of it is likely my trigger control and my fear of recoil, but I'm curious what I should do to improve aim. From a defensive standpoint I'm definitely hitting critical mass, but I'd like to see my shots more centered.
"The point of [so-called "assault weapon" bans]...is not to ban firearms that are dangerous, it's to ban firearms that gun owners want to own because the people making the laws don't like gun owners. If we want to buy non-semiauto AR-style rifles, they'll ban those too, and for the same reason."

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#2 WARFACE

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 02:47 PM

Get some snap caps and practice dry firing. Lots of problems come from trigger pull and flinching.


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#3 luckydawg13

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 02:52 PM

I practices with a 22 LR it will help you over come fear of recoil    


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#4 MrTriple

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:51 PM

I practices with a 22 LR it will help you over come fear of recoil


What do you think about the Ruger SR22s? Or their new Mark IV?
"The point of [so-called "assault weapon" bans]...is not to ban firearms that are dangerous, it's to ban firearms that gun owners want to own because the people making the laws don't like gun owners. If we want to buy non-semiauto AR-style rifles, they'll ban those too, and for the same reason."

-Hapless

#5 WARFACE

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:55 PM

 

I practices with a 22 LR it will help you over come fear of recoil


What do you think about the Ruger SR22s? Or their new Mark IV?

 

My friend has the SR 22 and it is OUTSTANDING.


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#6 luckydawg13

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:42 PM

 

I practices with a 22 LR it will help you over come fear of recoil


What do you think about the Ruger SR22s? Or their new Mark IV?

 

I think you wont go wrong with a Ruger and if i did not have a mark II  i would be allover the mark IV  it looks a lot easier to clean

have not handled the SR22 yet   


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#7 BCC

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:07 PM

Have a friend load a few mags at the range for you--throw a couple snap caps in of course !!!! That will call out any flinch quite obviously, but help you learn to smooth out the trigger pull. SO MUCH depends on that straight back pull !!!

I also like to just turn my targets around right away and draw my own small circles in---AIM small--MISS small !

Work inside of 7 yards at a slow pace and really concentrate on fundamentals to tighten groupings......

Quality practice pays off.........


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#8 ragsbo

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:10 PM

One of the best methods to gain good trigger manipulation is dry fire- when done properly. First make sure that it is safe to dry fire your particular weapon. Some weapons are not designed to be dry fire or can be only dried fired with a snap cap. Your owners manual should tell you this (or google it).

 

First rule (and last rule) of dry fire is to make sure weapon is completely empty of live ammo- double check, triple check, quadruple check, have 12 over people do the same! Place all ammo up in another room away from where you will be dry firing. If possible have a back stop that would stop a bullet if unintentionally fired into it. I know some folks use a bullet resistant vest for this. Safety Safety Safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

 

Dry fire is best done in small doses. Over doing it can ingrain bad habits. Work on manipulating the trigger with out disturbing the sight picture. Slow and easy at first. Then as you get better, speed things up but once the sights start to move, then slow down. DO NOT do marathon sessions either. Short sessions will work better.

 

There are various techniques like placing a coin on the barrel and manipulating the trigger without knocking it off. One technique I like is to use a target that contrast greatly with the color of the sights. The contrast will help you see if the sights move. Another technique is to video tape your shelf shooting and then reviewing the video. It is nice if you can slow it down too. Even better is to have a knowledgeable person observe and critique your technique.

 

You mentioned shooting right handed and being left eye dominant. That should not be a problem if you are using the isosceles hold.  All you have to do is move the weapon slightly to line up with the eye you need. It would be harder to do with the Weaver.



#9 tkroenlein

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 10:28 PM

Low left shots for a right handed shooter is likely a support (left) hand issue, specifically not enough support. Try to get that meaty part below your left thumb onto the grip, keeping your left thumb roughly parallel from joint to tip along the frame with the right thumb layered on top of it. Construct your grip at the low ready position, and extend into the isosceles stance. You should have a savagely tight grip at this point, without having to strain to do so.


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#10 C0untZer0

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 10:30 PM

It might be worth it too to get a coach


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#11 Not me

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 06:26 AM

Some good pointers in here. OP are you shooting with your dominant eye closed? I am the same, right handed and left eye dominant. I have always had to shoot shotguns closing my left (dominant) eye. For pistol it shouldn't matter since the pistol is in the middle rather than a side. That said, I shoot much better closing my dominant eye, I'm trying to train myself to shoot with both eyes open.

#12 blck10th

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 06:35 AM

I've done the coin thing and I've loaded some snap caps in my mags randomly and forgot about them once when I went to the range. I had a what the moment when my gun that always goes bang didn't. Both seemed to be beneficial. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

#13 RandyP

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:23 AM

Worth the few minutes it takes to watch -

 



#14 TRJ

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:44 AM

Worth the few minutes it takes to watch -
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=pj3IJQFvBqE

That's the best explanation of grip I've ever seen.

#15 cgs

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 10:59 AM

ALOT of dry fire. I use my laser training pistols to dry fire at home. However after a range session with a snappy concealed carry gun, the muscle memory built from dry fire can be destroyed by the pain caused by recoil.  When this happens do as you did, focus on the trigger control.

 

Slow press of the trigger to the rear, not thinking about the bang. Allow the bang to be almost a surprise, only think about the pres... 1 lb, 2 lbs, 3 lbs, 4 lbs, 5 lbs.... at some point the gun will go off and almost always utilizing this technique your shot is exactly where you aimed. 

 

One on One training for an hour here and there can't hurt either. 


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#16 Jacksinthe

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:54 AM

Aside from lots of dry fire (for example my PPQ has well over 10k dry practice fires to it's 1600 live fire with ammo), grip, arms and torso.

Your torso should be taking most of the impulse from recoil - and here's another trick: recoil is going to happen so let it happen and don't fight it. You can't stop recoil. You CAN help control muzzle rise.

Lock your wrist elbows and shoulders. Pull straight through the trigger and don't pause at any break. Don't ease the take up, just pull front to back (especially for defensive shooting). Again, your upper torso should feel most of the impulse from recoil, not your arms or hands. Some folks roll shoulders forward, some folks lock shoulders to the rear. Some folks torque their weak hand arm towards the gun (clockwise for right handed shooters) to help stabilize the weapon with the meat of their support palm. Don't try to fight with your strong hand pinky finger. Middle and ring finger max. The pinky is what usually causes torque.

Also, give your brain something else to focus on. If you can move while shooting just move left to right a few feet and shoot, then go back. Give your brain something else to focus on.

I personally feel the most important aspect is the grip and wrists. Hold tight, but not Superman tight. Recipe will happen so give that impulse a solid foundation to travel through (hands, arms) and a place to stop (upper torso). Of you are doing it right your arms won't bend or budge but your body will move backwards. Now learn to shift your center of gravity SLIGHTLY to compensate for the backwards impulse.

If you can have someone cycle the slide for you at home while you practice your grip and arm control, you will see where your weak points are. Hold the gun and have someone move the slide back slowly. If your arms bend, lock them. If you move backwards, shift your weight. Someone should be able to move your whole upper body by grabbing and moving the gun while you hold it. No bending of the wrist, elbow or shoulder. This goes for any stance.

Minding the wrists will eliminate 90% of the torque, making sure to index the target with your support thumb eliminates another 5 and the last bit is just dry practice. Lots and lots of it.

Everyone will do all of these differently and there is no hard and fast rule. No 70/30, front back/side to side grip, push/pull - find what works for you.

#17 DD123

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:29 AM

Low shots usually indicate a few different things......it could be you're flinching, or you're not isolating your trigger finger.  What happens is that as soon as you start to pull back on the trigger, all of the fingers in your strong hand also flex.  Put a gun in your strong hand only, and squeeze your bottom three fingers while watching the sights.  What did you see?  You saw the front sight drop down right?  

 

I had this problem for a while, and the best correction is to squeeze harder with your support hand (left hand for right handed shooters).  If you look at the grip of the pro shooters, their support hand is squeezing the crap out of their strong hand.  

 

So in a nutshell, you want a firm grip with your strong hand, but your support hand is crushing your strong hand.  I wouldn't even know what percentages to put on each because they're kind of pointless.  The goal is to isolate your trigger finger.  Some people choke the gun with their support hand, but then completely loosen the grip of their strong hand, which then shows no change.  You still need a firm strong hand grip.  

 

Now to make matters even more complicated, the more you squeeze with your strong hand, the slower your trigger finger becomes.  Try this:  make a fist and squeeze, then try to move your trigger finger like you're pulling a trigger.  See how fast you can go.  Now lighten up on your death squeeze, and try it again.  Now your trigger finger is much faster.  The goal is to find a happy medium, and then practice it like crazy in dry fire.  


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#18 kster

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:53 PM

drill to diagnose and practice on reduce fliching

 

 

on grip

 



#19 gangrel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:51 PM

As CGS said, practice getting a surprise break on the trigger.  Squeeze the trigger slowly and smoothly, keeping your sights aligned, and let the gun go bang when it decides to.  If you have a flinching problem and you make a conscious decision to shoot, you are going to flinch.  You can add speed and a deliberate trigger press once you have overcome your flinch.

 

Low-left for a right handed shooter indicates either squeezing the fingertips or too much finger on the trigger.  Either of these will cause the gun to roll downward and away from your shooting hand as you squeeze the trigger.  Again, practice your fundamentals.  Keep your grip solid, but not squeezing. 

 

However, OP said he was hitting low-right, not low-left.  Low-right for a right-handed shooter would indicate squeezing with the whole hand, or it could be that the low part is anticipation of recoil, and the left is an issue with being cross-eye dominant.  Best to get in the habit of shooting with both eyes open, relaxing the grip a bit, and working through that slow trigger squeeze to a surprise break.


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#20 BCC

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:57 PM

Love Vogels explanation on the grip.......


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#21 BradS

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:10 AM

Can you shoot with both eyes open?

Do you blink when the gun goes BANG!
my target stands classified thread:

http://illinoiscarry...topic=40920&hl=

#22 mpd046

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

With rounds going right, left and low. I'm very curious what you see your sights doing during the entire shot process. What exactly are you seeing? Does the front sight rise up and to the right and stay there? Straight up and then dip back down? or does it just disappear? Is there a focal shift during the shot? Do you find your eyes racing back and forth between front sight, rear sight and target?

 

Matt



#23 C0untZer0

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Posted Yesterday, 08:13 PM

Take barbiturates.

 

They slow down your heart rate and reduce muscle tremors.


People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
 
- George Orwell -

 


#24 tkroenlein

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Posted Yesterday, 09:49 PM

Take barbiturates.
 
They slow down your heart rate and reduce muscle tremors.


Solid advice, bro.




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