Jump to content


Photo

Prohibited Carry Zones - 23 Categories


  • Please log in to reply
275 replies to this topic

#91 wishbone

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 76 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 04:16 PM

Here is the Oxford Dictionary definition of "right of way":

 

"Definition of right of way in English:
right of way Syllabification: right of way
NOUN
  • 1The legal right, established by usage or grant, to pass along a specific route through grounds or property belonging to another."
I like the idea of using the common plain English definition of right of way that gives us the maximum freedom the legislature gave to us to carry legally . Northwestern University allows the public to walk across their campus. Right of way = legal carry. The Oakbrook Mall allows the public the right of way to walk outdoors through their mall, and that equals legal carry. Section 65 c allows you to walk on any right of way that "touches or crosses" a prohibited area. It is one of the most powerful tools we have for free movement while carrying.  Let's not talk ourselves out of that freedom.

 



#92 Dr. Rat

    JMHO

  • Members
  • 2,369 posts
  • Joined: 14-January 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 04:23 PM

Here is the Oxford Dictionary definition of "right of way":

 

"Definition of right of way in English:
right of way Syllabification: right of way
NOUN
  • 1The legal right, established by usage or grant, to pass along a specific route through grounds or property belonging to another."
I like the idea of using the common plain English definition of right of way that gives us the maximum freedom the legislature gave to us to carry legally . Northwestern University allows the public to walk across their campus. Right of way = legal carry. The Oakbrook Mall allows the public the right of way to walk outdoors through their mall, and that equals legal carry. Section 65 c allows you to walk on any right of way that "touches or crosses" a prohibited area. It is one of the most powerful tools we have for free movement while carrying.  Let's not talk ourselves out of that freedom.

 

 

Best of luck with that interpretation... :no:



#93 wishbone

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 76 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:39 PM

 

Here is the Oxford Dictionary definition of "right of way":

 

"Definition of right of way in English:
right of way Syllabification: right of way
NOUN
  • 1The legal right, established by usage or grant, to pass along a specific route through grounds or property belonging to another."
I like the idea of using the common plain English definition of right of way that gives us the maximum freedom the legislature gave to us to carry legally . Northwestern University allows the public to walk across their campus. Right of way = legal carry. The Oakbrook Mall allows the public the right of way to walk outdoors through their mall, and that equals legal carry. Section 65 c allows you to walk on any right of way that "touches or crosses" a prohibited area. It is one of the most powerful tools we have for free movement while carrying.  Let's not talk ourselves out of that freedom.

 

 

Best of luck with that interpretation... :no:

 

 

And your "interpretation" of Section 65 c is what pray tell?  



#94 Falstaff

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:38 PM

My interpretation is that you are okay in a park if your are driving through it. I don't think you are okay if you are strolling through it unless you are on a bike path. Think of it this way: there is a specific prohibition that states that you cannot have a gun in a park. There is a specific park exception that says that you can have a gun in a park if you are using a bike trail that cuts through the park. Then there is a general exception to almost all prohibited areas that let's you drive through otherwise prohibited areas without violating the law. But if you are walking through a park and you are not on a bike trail, then you're violating the law. Otherwise the "public right of way" would be the exception that darn near swallows the rule. Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe you're right, but I will let someone else test that theory.

#95 Dr. Rat

    JMHO

  • Members
  • 2,369 posts
  • Joined: 14-January 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:36 PM

 

 

Here is the Oxford Dictionary definition of "right of way":

 

"Definition of right of way in English:
right of way Syllabification: right of way
NOUN
  • 1The legal right, established by usage or grant, to pass along a specific route through grounds or property belonging to another."
I like the idea of using the common plain English definition of right of way that gives us the maximum freedom the legislature gave to us to carry legally . Northwestern University allows the public to walk across their campus. Right of way = legal carry. The Oakbrook Mall allows the public the right of way to walk outdoors through their mall, and that equals legal carry. Section 65 c allows you to walk on any right of way that "touches or crosses" a prohibited area. It is one of the most powerful tools we have for free movement while carrying.  Let's not talk ourselves out of that freedom.

 

 

Best of luck with that interpretation... :no:

 

 

And your "interpretation" of Section 65 c is what pray tell?  

 

 

You obviously don't understand the difference between a legal right of way and someone granting limited permission to be on private property. I gave you Illinois' definition of public right of way. I don't think you're going to get very far reciting one OED definition of "right of way" to a judge.

 

But feel free to try...



#96 wishbone

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 76 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:02 PM

My interpretation is that you are okay in a park if your are driving through it. I don't think you are okay if you are strolling through it unless you are on a bike path. Think of it this way: there is a specific prohibition that states that you cannot have a gun in a park. There is a specific park exception that says that you can have a gun in a park if you are using a bike trail that cuts through the park. Then there is a general exception to almost all prohibited areas that let's you drive through otherwise prohibited areas without violating the law. But if you are walking through a park and you are not on a bike trail, then you're violating the law. Otherwise the "public right of way" would be the exception that darn near swallows the rule. Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe you're right, but I will let someone else test that theory.

Part 65 c says: ... if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act OR is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.

 

The OR suggests that it is not limited to just driving as you believe. I agree that the public right of way exception is a major feature of the Act and that it will be tested in the courts.


Edited by wishbone, 26 April 2014 - 11:08 PM.


#97 Falstaff

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 14

Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:41 AM

My interpretation is that you are okay in a park if your are driving through it. I don't think you are okay if you are strolling through it unless you are on a bike path. Think of it this way: there is a specific prohibition that states that you cannot have a gun in a park. There is a specific park exception that says that you can have a gun in a park if you are using a bike trail that cuts through the park. Then there is a general exception to almost all prohibited areas that let's you drive through otherwise prohibited areas without violating the law. But if you are walking through a park and you are not on a bike trail, then you're violating the law. Otherwise the "public right of way" would be the exception that darn near swallows the rule. Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe you're right, but I will let someone else test that theory.

Part 65 c says: ... if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act OR is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.[/size]
 
The OR suggests that it is not limited to just driving as you believe. I agree that the public right of way exception is a major feature of the Act and that it will be tested in the courts.[/size]

I interpret the "or" clause to mean that the gun can still be transported in the car while concealed or in accordance with the old law. I acknowledge that there problems with that interpretation. I have not dissected the law word by word and comma by comma, etc. But I promise you that the legislature didn't either.

You're not going to convince me that your interpretation is correct. Sorry. Until the courts or the legislature clarify what this means, we'll just need to agree to disagree on this point.

#98 wishbone

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 76 posts
  • Joined: 05-February 14

Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

 

 

My interpretation is that you are okay in a park if your are driving through it. I don't think you are okay if you are strolling through it unless you are on a bike path. Think of it this way: there is a specific prohibition that states that you cannot have a gun in a park. There is a specific park exception that says that you can have a gun in a park if you are using a bike trail that cuts through the park. Then there is a general exception to almost all prohibited areas that let's you drive through otherwise prohibited areas without violating the law. But if you are walking through a park and you are not on a bike trail, then you're violating the law. Otherwise the "public right of way" would be the exception that darn near swallows the rule. Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe you're right, but I will let someone else test that theory.

Part 65 c says: ... if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act OR is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.[/size]
 
The OR suggests that it is not limited to just driving as you believe. I agree that the public right of way exception is a major feature of the Act and that it will be tested in the courts.[/size]

I interpret the "or" clause to mean that the gun can still be transported in the car while concealed or in accordance with the old law. I acknowledge that there problems with that interpretation. I have not dissected the law word by word and comma by comma, etc. But I promise you that the legislature didn't either.

You're not going to convince me that your interpretation is correct. Sorry. Until the courts or the legislature clarify what this means, we'll just need to agree to disagree on this point.

 

I am with you Falstaff. We (and law enforcement officials) did not understand the implications of cased and unloaded FOIA transport until the courts made a couple of significant rulings and expanded our understanding. Lets let it rest there.



#99 apmonte

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 22 posts
  • Joined: 29-May 13

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:11 PM

I had my CC training this past weekend and my instructors told us that the Winnebago County forest preserves and Rock Cut State Park were off limits. From reading the prohibited areas list, I took it to mean that these areas were specifically called out as ok. I'm still months away from getting my license, but I'd like to get some clarification on this.

 

Sec. 65. Prohibited areas.
(3) Any building, parking area, or portion of a building under the control of an officer of the executive or legislative branch of government, provided that nothing in this paragraph shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm onto the real property, bikeway, or trail in a park regulated by the Department of Natural Resources or any other designated public hunting area or building where firearm possession is permitted as established by the Department of Natural Resources under Section 1.8 of the Wildlife Code.
 

As Rock Cut is under control of the DNR, wouldn't this seem to indicate that Rock Cut was ok for trail/bike path carry?

 

(13) Any public park, athletic area, or athletic facility under the control of a municipality or park district, provided nothing in this Section shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm while on a trail or bikeway if only a portion of the trail or bikeway includes a public park.

 

This would indicate to me that Baumann Park in Cherry Valley should be ok for carry. I haven't seen (or looked for) any signage yet.

 

(14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District.

 

Since Cook County Forest Preserve is specifically called out by name, I really expected that the forest preserve districts in the other counties would be ok for carry.

 

We routinely walk the dogs in Deer Run, Oak Ridge, Espenscheid, and Blackhawk Springs forest preserves. Here's a link to the list of Winnebago County Forest Preserves. I took the dogs out to Deer Run this morning and saw the attached pictures showing a no carry sign on the Information board. If my wife hadn't mentioned it to me this weekend, I would have never seen it as I never look at the info board when driving in. If it was correct to post, it would have been easier to notice on the board with the other picture signs (No swimming, dog on leash, horses ok, hiking, skiing, etc).

 

Can anyone provide insight?

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • DeerRun.gif
  • DeerRunEntrance.gif


#100 SleepingBirdDog

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 560 posts
  • Joined: 20-May 13

Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:12 AM

I had my CC training this past weekend and my instructors told us that the Winnebago County forest preserves and Rock Cut State Park were off limits. From reading the prohibited areas list, I took it to mean that these areas were specifically called out as ok. I'm still months away from getting my license, but I'd like to get some clarification on this.

 

Sec. 65. Prohibited areas.
(3) Any building, parking area, or portion of a building under the control of an officer of the executive or legislative branch of government, provided that nothing in this paragraph shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm onto the real property, bikeway, or trail in a park regulated by the Department of Natural Resources or any other designated public hunting area or building where firearm possession is permitted as established by the Department of Natural Resources under Section 1.8 of the Wildlife Code.
 

As Rock Cut is under control of the DNR, wouldn't this seem to indicate that Rock Cut was ok for trail/bike path carry?

 

(13) Any public park, athletic area, or athletic facility under the control of a municipality or park district, provided nothing in this Section shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm while on a trail or bikeway if only a portion of the trail or bikeway includes a public park.

 

This would indicate to me that Baumann Park in Cherry Valley should be ok for carry. I haven't seen (or looked for) any signage yet.

 

(14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District.

 

Since Cook County Forest Preserve is specifically called out by name, I really expected that the forest preserve districts in the other counties would be ok for carry.

 

We routinely walk the dogs in Deer Run, Oak Ridge, Espenscheid, and Blackhawk Springs forest preserves. Here's a link to the list of Winnebago County Forest Preserves. I took the dogs out to Deer Run this morning and saw the attached pictures showing a no carry sign on the Information board. If my wife hadn't mentioned it to me this weekend, I would have never seen it as I never look at the info board when driving in. If it was correct to post, it would have been easier to notice on the board with the other picture signs (No swimming, dog on leash, horses ok, hiking, skiing, etc).

 

Can anyone provide insight?

 

 

http://dnr.state.il....ledCarryQnA.pdf

 

5) On what IDNR properties may an Illinois Concealed Carry Permit holder carry a concealed 
firearm? 
Illinois Concealed Carry Permit holders may carry a concealed firearm on any IDNR real property 
(including bike trails, trails, or any other designated public hunting area or building where 
firearm possession is permitted by the IDNR) with the following exceptions: All IDNR Office 
buildings, including but not limited to the Joel D. Brunsvold Building (IDNR Springfield 
Headquarters Building), IDNR Regional Office buildings, IDNR State Museum buildings, and any 
other IDNR building marked with the ISP-approved sign prohibiting firearms. All firearms, 
including concealed firearms, are also prohibited on all IDNR State Refuge areas, IDNR Dedicated 
Nature Preserves, and IDNR children playground areas. When visiting any of these locations, 
Concealed Carry Permit holders are required to secure their concealed firearms in their vehicle 
in accordance with the Illinois Concealed Carry Act. 

Life Member NRA

Member ISRA


#101 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

I have a question about this section:
 
2) Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a pre-school or child care facility, including any room or portion of a building under the control of a pre-school or child care facility. Nothing in this paragraph shall prevent the operator of a child care facility in a family home from owning or possessing a firearm in the home or license under this Act, if no child under child care at the home is present in the home or the firearm in the home is stored in a locked container when a child under child care at the home is present in the home.
 
What constitutes a "child care facility"? Someone I know works for an after school program like Sylvan's (no, it is not Sylvan's, but one of its competitors). It is not a child care center per se, but it is a private after school tutoring center. Would she be permitted to carry her firearm there? 
 
Thanks.


More so we have to be careful of what is defined as a school...

In IL the definition of school could be very broadly interpreted thanks to People v. Levisen...


"a school, in the ordinary meaning of the word, is a place where instruction is imparted to the young"


What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#102 wven33

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 13

Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:36 PM

How bout a martial arts school? It is not posted but is it considered a school and therefore prohibited?

#103 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:20 PM

How bout a martial arts school? It is not posted but is it considered a school and therefore prohibited?

 

IMO this is outside the 'spirit' of the FCCA definition of school, but that isn't to say that am anti-gun prosecutor could not make a very convincing argument that it is indeed a school as defined by IL Supreme Court in People v. Levisen and put the defendant through a long court battle...

 

If schools are to be banned as they are, the legislators really need to include a definition of school that applies under this act, but I would not hold my breath on our legislators actually doing anything until the courts weigh in and force their hand...


What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#104 snashmcsd

  • Members
  • 32 posts
  • Joined: 06-September 12

Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:32 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?



#105 BIGDEESUL

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,040 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 13

Posted 10 May 2014 - 04:59 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?


Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no.

It's a gray area right now until there's some case law, but as an instructor I suggest not to transport in a gfz. No guns means no guns. Others will tell you different but better to be safe than sorry.

Supporting member
NRA Endowment Member

IALEFI Member/Instructor
Certified Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor
NRA certified Pistol Instructor
NRA certified Personal Protection Inside The Home Instructor

NRA certified Personal Protection Outside The Home Instructor
NRA certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA certified Home Firearm Safety Instructor
 


#106 Dr. Rat

    JMHO

  • Members
  • 2,369 posts
  • Joined: 14-January 14

Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:33 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?

 

If you have a license, the answer seems to be "maybe". There are some that will tell you it is legal and other that will tell you it isn't. Until the law is refined or judges start making rulings, the answer is that no one knows for certain.



#107 Falstaff

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 14

Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:18 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?


Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no.

It's a gray area right now until there's some case law, but as an instructor I suggest not to transport in a gfz. No guns means no guns. Others will tell you different but better to be safe than sorry.

What's the gray area? He was asking about a form of public transportation and you seem to tell him its okay, but then say it is a gray area. I am confused. If you have a FOID, I would think that you'd still be able to transport your firearm the same as you could before CC, i.e., unloaded and in a case or broken down and inaccessible. Subject to federal law, of course. For example, Amtrak requires advanced notification, a locked case (I think), checked baggage, etc. Thanks.

#108 BIGDEESUL

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,040 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 13

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:50 AM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?

Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no.
It's a gray area right now until there's some case law, but as an instructor I suggest not to transport in a gfz. No guns means no guns. Others will tell you different but better to be safe than sorry.

What's the gray area? He was asking about a form of public transportation and you seem to tell him its okay, but then say it is a gray area. I am confused. If you have a FOID, I would think that you'd still be able to transport your firearm the same as you could before CC, i.e., unloaded and in a case or broken down and inaccessible. Subject to federal law, of course. For example, Amtrak requires advanced notification, a locked case (I think), checked baggage, etc. Thanks.


Reread my post. I said public transportation IMO is OK to transport, while the other prohibited locations with posted signage it Is not. Not sure what part confused you, but you should try not to be confused so easily.

Supporting member
NRA Endowment Member

IALEFI Member/Instructor
Certified Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor
NRA certified Pistol Instructor
NRA certified Personal Protection Inside The Home Instructor

NRA certified Personal Protection Outside The Home Instructor
NRA certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA certified Home Firearm Safety Instructor
 


#109 bob

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,153 posts
  • Joined: 14-November 05

Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:01 AM

I am curious. How is it that public transportation is Ok to transport on but no other public places? The laws just do not say that.

 

I think in the end that is what the courts might effectively end up saying, but at present there just is no such provision


bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#110 Falstaff

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 14

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:40 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?

Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no.
It's a gray area right now until there's some case law, but as an instructor I suggest not to transport in a gfz. No guns means no guns. Others will tell you different but better to be safe than sorry.

What's the gray area? He was asking about a form of public transportation and you seem to tell him its okay, but then say it is a gray area. I am confused. If you have a FOID, I would think that you'd still be able to transport your firearm the same as you could before CC, i.e., unloaded and in a case or broken down and inaccessible. Subject to federal law, of course. For example, Amtrak requires advanced notification, a locked case (I think), checked baggage, etc. Thanks.

Reread my post. I said public transportation IMO is OK to transport, while the other prohibited locations with posted signage it Is not. Not sure what part confused you, but you should try not to be confused so easily.
Your answer, IMO, remains ambiguous. You give a black and white answer: "Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no." Bit then you go on to say, "It's a gray area." How do you define "it" in that sentence? This is the confusing part. I was asking for clarification, because I wasn't sure what you meant. I thought I politely asked for clarification, but apparently you thought otherwise. IMO, you should try to be friendlier. Have a good day.

Edited by Falstaff, 11 May 2014 - 12:40 PM.


#111 BIGDEESUL

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,040 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 13

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:51 PM

I am curious. How is it that public transportation is Ok to transport on but no other public places? The laws just do not say that.
 
I think in the end that is what the courts might effectively end up saying, but at present there just is no such provision



The law does say that. Rather clearly.

Sec 65c: A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.


(a-10) The owner of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in accordance with subsection (d) of this Section indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property, unless the property is a private residence.

Carried on a public right of way or
transported in a vehicle is an exception to the prohibited areas. The ONLY exception to the prohibited areas. The only thing that mentions the uuw/auuw transport exceptions is the part about possessing the license, and that is the only thing it addresses, is when you need your license and when you don't. It never authorizes transport in in a gfz. Sec. 65 a-10 specifies that a compliant posted sign indicates that firearms are prohibited on the property, period. There's no exception for transport.


Supporting member
NRA Endowment Member

IALEFI Member/Instructor
Certified Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor
NRA certified Pistol Instructor
NRA certified Personal Protection Inside The Home Instructor

NRA certified Personal Protection Outside The Home Instructor
NRA certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA certified Home Firearm Safety Instructor
 


#112 RockerXX

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,110 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 11

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:50 PM

I think it's going to boil down to this in the courts...

 

A train/bus is a commonly understood mode of transportation, it's used to get you from point A to point B, it's not a place you 'visit' or 'hang out' with any other purpose beyond getting from point A to B and thus you are truly 'transporting' and the courts will likely favor this commonly understood definition...

 

On the other hand making the argument that you are transporting when you decide to circumvent a posted GFZ like a School or Park that in it self is not a commonly understood mode of transportation is going to be a much harder argument to win and thus the 'gray' status...


What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
A sparrow with a machine gun!


#113 BIGDEESUL

    Member

  • Members
  • 7,040 posts
  • Joined: 02-January 13

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:53 PM

In areas that are prohibited, such as trains, train stations, etc...is transport allowed, meaning if unloaded in a bag am I legal?
Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no.
It's a gray area right now until there's some case law, but as an instructor I suggest not to transport in a gfz. No guns means no guns. Others will tell you different but better to be safe than sorry.
What's the gray area? He was asking about a form of public transportation and you seem to tell him its okay, but then say it is a gray area. I am confused. If you have a FOID, I would think that you'd still be able to transport your firearm the same as you could before CC, i.e., unloaded and in a case or broken down and inaccessible. Subject to federal law, of course. For example, Amtrak requires advanced notification, a locked case (I think), checked baggage, etc. Thanks.
Reread my post. I said public transportation IMO is OK to transport, while the other prohibited locations with posted signage it Is not. Not sure what part confused you, but you should try not to be confused so easily.
Your answer, IMO, remains ambiguous. You give a black and white answer: "Public transportation yes. Other prohibited areas no." Bit then you go on to say, "It's a gray area." How do you define "it" in that sentence? This is the confusing part. I was asking for clarification, because I wasn't sure what you meant. I thought I politely asked for clarification, but apparently you thought otherwise. IMO, you should try to be friendlier. Have a good day.


Sorry, didn't mean to be unfriendly. I'm so used to people being jerks here that it's easy to misinterpret a sincere question. Have a good day too, and I apologize if I offended you.

Edited by BIGDEESUL, 11 May 2014 - 12:53 PM.

Supporting member
NRA Endowment Member

IALEFI Member/Instructor
Certified Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor
NRA certified Pistol Instructor
NRA certified Personal Protection Inside The Home Instructor

NRA certified Personal Protection Outside The Home Instructor
NRA certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA certified Home Firearm Safety Instructor
 


#114 Falstaff

  • Members
  • 27 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 14

Posted 11 May 2014 - 01:04 PM

[quote name="BIGDEESUL" post="745751" timestamp="1399834408"][quote name="Falstaff" post="745741" timestamp="1399833633"]
I'm so used to people being jerks here that it's easy to misinterpret a sincere question[/quote]

Unfortunately, that's true. Which is perhaps why I was a little thin-skinned.

#115 Tonyz23

  • Members
  • 25 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 14

Posted 11 May 2014 - 02:52 PM

All it's gonna take is a Person with a permit to be a victim of a crime because he or she was not allowed to carry and hopefully file a lawsuit

#116 bob

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,153 posts
  • Joined: 14-November 05

Posted 12 May 2014 - 05:18 AM

I think there is some terminology here that needs to be straightened out.

 

Personally, I do not think there is any legal difference between "carrying" a concealed handgun or "transporting" one. There is nothing in the FCCA or any other law that makes that distinction.

 

Read this carefully.

 

(c ) A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.

 

 

This is just my opinion, mind you. I think you are mostly safe to carry on mass transit buses. Clearly a bus is a vehicle and the street or road is a public right of way. However, I don't think you can go into a publicly owned building.  I don't think the typical bus stop shelter along side a street is a building but a bus station is a building. 

 

I don't see any way you can get on or off a train without passing through a publicly owned building (that would be the train station), and I don't think the train tracks are a public right of way, (it probably is a vehicle) so I don't see anyway you can carry (or transport) on a train.

 

But, I would caution that none of this has been tested in court, and it is solely my opinion that it would shake out that way.


Edited by bob, 12 May 2014 - 05:20 AM.

bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#117 Blackbeard

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,351 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 09

Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:23 AM

I don't think the "public right of way" exception clears you for travelling on buses.  It's clear the legislative intent was to exempt people carrying on a public street that crosses through an otherwise prohibited area, such as a college campus or public park.

 

Maybe your lawyer could successfully argue that © applies to bus travel, but I wouldn't bet on it.


Blackbeard is not an attorney.  All comments posted are the views of Blackbeard alone and do not necessarily represent those of Illinois Carry™ or of any sane person.  For the love of God, please ignore any advice he has given.


#118 borgranta

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,730 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 12

Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:33 AM

I don't think the "public right of way" exception clears you for travelling on buses.  It's clear the legislative intent was to exempt people carrying on a public street that crosses through an otherwise prohibited area, such as a college campus or public park.
 
Maybe your lawyer could successfully argue that © applies to bus travel, but I wouldn't bet on it.

That is why some will have to un-holster and un-load the handgun and enclose it in a case while hoping not to catch a bullet.
The following referral code will grant provide a new User of Uber a free ride up to $15
donaldd4557ui

#119 djmarkla

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 311 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 13

Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:00 PM

How bout a martial arts school? It is not posted but is it considered a school and therefore prohibited?

I would think that a martial arts school would be treated as a business and it would be up to the owner of the business



#120 kwc

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,383 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 13

Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:11 PM

I think there is some terminology here that needs to be straightened out.

This is just my opinion, mind you. I think you are mostly safe to carry on mass transit buses. Clearly a bus is a vehicle and the street or road is a public right of way. However, I don't think you can go into a publicly owned building.  I don't think the typical bus stop shelter along side a street is a building but a bus station is a building.


bob,

"mostly safe to carry on mass transit buses"? Did you mean to state it this way? These are explicitly listed as GFZs:

-----
(8) Any bus, train, or form of transportation paid for in whole or in part with public funds, and any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public transportation facility paid for in whole or in part with public funds.
-----

"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users