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What has happened in the last 50 years?


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#1 Buzzard

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 12:03 AM

I think we need to have this discussion. First of all, IGOLD is coming and I want a list of what has changed in the last fifty years to possibly cause or bring about these mass shootings. I want to compile a list of things that have changed over the years, or are somehow different now, which have a genuine possibility of partly or wholly being the cause of these horrible aberrations in our society.

 

I want to exempt guns from this list because guns have not significantly changed in the last one hundred years. Nor have their availability changed to make it easier to get guns. We know that the infamous "gun show loophole" does not really exist. At least, I've never once bought a gun at a gun show and walked out the door with it that day! Not ONCE! I would say in recent years it's gotten harder to buy guns. And nothing that would have delayed a gun purchase for a day or a week would have stopped these events.

 

The number fifty is arbitrary. I selected it partly because I graduated from high school about fifty years ago and the thought of getting shot while attending school back then was preposterous!  If you would have told a school councelor back then you were afraid of being shot in school I think they might suggest to your parents that you be examined by a psychiatrist. Today, schools run preparedness drills for such things as a active shooter.

 

I want a list of things that we can lay on a desk and say, "Why are we not doing something about THESE things?! Why is it someone always wants to take away things that I have a RIGHT to own?" So what do you think? Let's do this! Let's start listing the REAL causes for these mass killings. And then we will give it to our Representatives and Senators at IGOLD.



#2 DoverGunner

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 04:16 AM

Participation Trophy's

Not Disciplining Children

Not telling children NO



#3 soundguy

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 04:39 AM

You're older than me so you missed one. And it's probably not what you're looking for.

 

When I was 13... 49 years ago... organized activities for kids began in Naperville. We'd always had Little League and Pop Warner. But that summer the list of new kids to play backyard baseball and screw around with just dried up. They were at some supervised play lot lot with paid older kids, probably about your age, Buzzard. Ice hockey on the river continued for a couple of years. It must have been too cold out for supervisors. You had to know where all the rocks were to avoid the riffles of open water. And we knew how to test the ice, or thought we did. By the time I was 16 someone had dug out rectangles with berm edges and flooded them for an actual outdoor hockey rink. It wasn't the same. Now it was competition and sport rather than just fun... Something to do.

 

We have over supervised our children. I guess that was the beginning of the Nanny State.


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#4 Mick G

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:08 AM

Participation Trophy's

Not Disciplining Children

Not telling children NO

 

Not Disciplining Children - I think that's a big one.

There's a difference between giving your kid a slap and beating the daylights out of them.

People let their kids act like little animals and you want say "Discipline your child!"

I actually don't ever remember actually being hit my dads belt but if it came off, you know you did something seriously wrong.

The not telling kids NO is another one. I was told NO once and that was usually it.

But? But nothing, I said NO and that was the end that, time to pout in the car.

Plus we used to do the most insane things. I'll get in the shopping cart and you push me really fast into a brick wall.

Cool, now its my turn, try and push faster, that was kind of weak.

Now these kids are basically running around with helmets and padding.

The neighbors used to keep a watch on the kids and if you did something bad, your parents WOULD find out about it and there would be heck to pay. "You know what you did, don't act like you don't!"


Edited by Mick G, 31 March 2018 - 06:10 AM.


#5 TomKoz

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:49 AM

Who / What to blame for the demoralization of America:

Elvis “the Pelvis” - a little purple here but didn’t our parents/grandparents warn us?
Taking God out of schools.
Federal Dept. of Education - Fed gov rather than local control.
Greed - most households require both parents work (lack of parental control)
Lust - look how women/girls dress on TV compared to 1950’s.
Al Gore - he invented internet - almost impossible to prevent what young minds can see.
Single Parent households - see Greed and Lust above.
Government Welfare - promotes single parent households & more undisciplined kids.
Lack of proper child rearing - because of all above morals, modesty, discipline not taught.
Above lead to encouragement of drugging kids by schools (Feds).

Though many will disagree and debate, the US was for a long time a “Christian” Nation.
By removing the Christian / God from our schools, and more and more parents not teaching and promoting the teachings of the Bible - the results are all around us !!
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!

#6 RandyP

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:56 AM

I started High School in '61 at age 12.

 

Horrendously violent and realistic video games.

Rap/Thug/Gangsta culture

The internet

A welfare system that rewarded single parent households

Political Correctness

Giving the crooks more rights than the cops


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#7 richp

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 07:11 AM

Hi Buzzard,

Not to fully derail your thread, but we here in Illinois have a different situation about gun shows. In many States, private parties with a table at a gun show can agree to a sale and the customer can walk out the door with the gun immediately -- without a background check.

Having recently attended gun shows in Alabama and Arizona, there will be a sign indicating that the commercial vendor must do a background check, which I have seen them do on a laptop computer right there at the point of sale. For private party sales at the very next table, no background check is required.

No one ever stops to think about why Illinois residents are so much less trustworthy and more inclined toward illegal activity than folks in those States...

Now to your original question. It's really a very complex combination of a variety of factors. The breakdown of the family. Changes in educational policies and practices. Reduced influence of churches. Diminished impact of other socializing influences like Scouting. The influence of the the internet and modern media/communication trends.

FWIW -- no easy or satisfactory answers.

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#8 Raw Power

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 07:50 AM

False premise. School shootings are not on the rise, and murders are almost at an all time low.

 

The only thing that has changed is our perception and willingness to accept fake news.



#9 Hap

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 07:54 AM

What's changed in the last fifty years is that most of us are under the illusion that there are no threats to our freedom or to our prosperity.


Ad utrumque paratus


#10 GAS3987

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:00 AM

False premise. School shootings are not on the rise, and murders are almost at an all time low.

 

The only thing that has changed is our perception and willingness to accept fake news.

 

In almost every case recently, the media has blown the situation way out of proportion and talked about it endlessly.  It certainly gives the perception that shootings are on the rise, when actually it's just the near instant reporting we have now compared to years ago.  I've tried to give actual facts about said items to anti-gunners, at which point they tell me it's wrong and it really is getting worse.  SMH


Luke 12:48
 


#11 chicagoresident

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:10 AM

One thing to think to think about, mass school shootings and bombings have been happening since 1923
https://en.m.wikiped...School_disaster there have been several notable ones after that over the years. But they were all perpetrated by adults. At the core this is domestic terrorism.

Columbine was really the first school shooting perpetrated by kids and that was 1999.

Every single perpetrator of these acts throughout history had a grievance, as maligned as it sounds.

Basically people become evil when they hold entitlement above all else (woman as objects, popularity/power, material things, everyone should have the same beliefs they do, etc.)

There's always been spoiled brats and suicidal teens.

Once Columbine happened it broke the seal. It highlighted a soft target that any suicidal teen that wants to air their grievances can do so on a much larger level.

I really think that's all that's changed. It's the only soft target we haven't hardened after repeated attacks.

I'll throw in pharmaceuticals to the mix, not because they make school shooters out of anyone that takes them, but it does lower inhibitions to commit suicide. In adolescent there is an urge for some people to kill themselves to show the world how bad they were to them. For disturbed entitled individuals killing other people isn't a big leap.
antidepressantblackbox.jpg

#12 .40carry

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:57 AM

Modern society (particularly the progressive) has actively advocated for the destruction of traditional values, morals, and family structure.  The former black and white rules of society have been replaced by a do what you want attitude, tell people what pronouns you want to be called by regardless of biological fact, nothing matters but how YOU feel.  Criminal activity is celebrated and those that choose not to follow the law are held up as victims of circumstance and a product of societal discrimination.  The belief that outcomes must be equal instead of opportunity is the new norm.  Lastly, life is not held sacred by this group on many levels, then as a society we act shocked when those that have been taught not to value life decide to take it by any means.  As a society we are reaping what we have sewn.

 

How do we fit that on an IGOLD sign?


Edited by .40carry, 31 March 2018 - 08:59 AM.


#13 mic6010

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:17 AM

Brainwashing. Both through the educational system and all forms of media. Perception becomes reality. Whatever ideals you're taught as "normal" or "moral" are the ideals that you ultimately espouse for yourself.  There's been 50 years of lazy a** people letting schools and TV raise their children, and this is what you get.

People are just now waking up and realizing what all has been going on and that maybe that wasn't the right thing to do. And now we have to fight for our basic human rights.


Edited by mic6010, 31 March 2018 - 09:19 AM.

"Living in Chicago, it used to be, 'don't go out at night,' or 'be more careful at night'. Now it's turned into a place where it doesn't matter if it's day or night."  - John Hendricks.


#14 Lou

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:24 AM

My impression is the start of the where we are today began with LBJs Great Society. 

It signaled the end of traditional family values and the demise of the two parent family.

His War On Poverty spent over $22 TRILLION (with a T) in the first 50 years and the poverty rate is almost identical.

Before his multiple social justice programs the number of children born out of wedlock was 7% - and 41% after 50 years.

 

A positive family structure matters.  The prominence of gangs is becasue they are a replacement for the traditional  family. 


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#15 u00nrp3

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:39 AM

A few things come to mind in no particular order....

     #1   Broken homes.  How common was divorce 50 years ago?  I wasn't alive that long ago, but studying history has taught me it was not anywhere near as prevalent as it is now.  Along with divorce is an increasing amount of unwed parents raising children by themselves.  In those situations, parents rely on other parents, or other family members to help raise kids.  Once the kids reach a certain age, they sort of have to raise themselves due to parents work commitments.  Along with divorces are cases of one parent playing the kids against another.  Bitter divorces are made even harder on kids when parents end up hating each other in the end and make no efforts to at least be civil with each other.

     #2     Violent video games.  See above.  As long as the kids are quiet and entertained, mom/dad can focus on other things.

     #3     SSRI medications.  Kids/ young adults labeled as depressed, or have to much stress by a therapist are immediately handed a prescription to get filled.  Back when drugs like Abilify were advertised on television it was clearly stated during the commercial that the side effects may include "thoughts or actions of suicide or other violent behavior".  Translated that means.. take this pill and you may or may not kill yourself or someone else.  Take it and see what happens.  I personally haven not turned on a television in over 3 years so I would not know if commercials advertising those products still exist, however I know the drugs do still exist.  Health care is a business, just like any other business they have products to sell.  "Results may vary".

      #4      Social media.  A generation in this country has now been raised to do nothing but stare into their phones and think they are nothing if they aren't someone on social media.  "I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction.  The world will have a generation of idiots."  - Albert Einstein.  Ask a high school aged person how to organize a large group of people for an event you would like to put together.  They will explain how in less than 5 minutes using nothing more than their cell phone. 

      #5      Liberal media.  People that sit on the couch and subject themselves to the psychological warfare that is called the news, or the prime time television shows that promote liberal ideas are being indoctrinated.  If you do't agree with the ideas that are being put on display, or if they go against your personal beliefs, your instantly labeled a racist hate monger.  You question the governments decisions or policies, or opinions expressed on certain news channels?  Your labeled a terrorist.  As a point of reference, in the early 1930's there was writing in school children's text books about how to deal with the "Jewish problem".

 

What has changed in the last 50 years?  Everything..  Liberals call it progress.


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#16 Prairie Pucker

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:42 AM

I recently heard a stat that I have not personally verified, but it came from a reputable source.  Of the last ~1-1/2 dozen or so "mass shootings" (or was it school shootings?) in all but one case the shooter came from a home without a father.  It's hard not to draw a conclusion that this is anything other than a flashing neon arrow that points to at least part of the problem.

 

If so, then it leads one to wonder how many other instances of shootings also result from the same cause except that the shooter acted in someplace other than in a school setting?  Like an alleyway or street corner? 

 

The FBI collects all sorts of data from shootings, but I've never heard that "fatherless home" was part of it.


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#17 .40carry

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 11:41 AM

My impression is the start of the where we are today began with LBJs Great Society. 

It signaled the end of traditional family values and the demise of the two parent family.

His War On Poverty spent over $22 TRILLION (with a T) in the first 50 years and the poverty rate is almost identical.

Before his multiple social justice programs the number of children born out of wedlock was 7% - and 41% after 50 years.

 

A positive family structure matters.  The prominence of gangs is becasue they are a replacement for the traditional  family. 

Nailed it.  One only has to look no farther than Detroit and the Model Cities Program.

 

56 pages of light reading if you're so inclined.

 

https://deepblue.lib....pdf?sequence=1



#18 chicagoresident

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 02:49 PM

I caution the correlation of school shootings to violent video games, tv/movies, media, non traditional families, etc. Because indirectly you're suggesting the solutions to societal ills are eugenics and 1st ammendment restrictions.

I think there may be some correlation to a society that lacks civic nationalism, nobody of any political background is proud of our country and both sides push values very destructive to civic nationalism. This by extension leads to opposing messages from authority figures (which transforms mild rebellion into idealist zealots), lack of community spirit, tribalism that further devolves into isolation, and ultimately apathy.

Apathy can lead to suicide but it's compounded by chemicals that lower inhibitions. It's on the warning labels. Some people definitely need to be medicated, but it needs to be done under the watchful eyes of medical professionals.

It's the entitlement piece that makes the suicidal want to take everyone else with them. Entitled people are very open to suggestive selling. The fact that school shootings get as big of a reaction as they do is an advertisement for them to do the same. I use the CDC's cluster suicide as a good analogy to the power of suggestion https://www.cdc.gov/...ml/00001755.htm

I don't believe regulations of news media coverage needs to happen . I think it just needs one brave mainstream media organization to point out that companies are profiting off virtue signalling and straight up commercial advertising that comes following a school shooting. This is blood money, not the NRA. It will come eventually, you can only cover so many mass murders in the same way until the competitive market demands a change.

Edited by chicagoresident, 31 March 2018 - 03:02 PM.


#19 BobPistol

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 04:41 PM

What happened 50 years ago?   The 1960's which had the sexual revolution and an explosion of LWW-ism. 

The sexual revolution, which taught that there are no such thing as sexual ethics.   With the sexual revolution came two bad things:

 

* Dehumanizing philosophy.   Since there are no sexual ethics, it is not only permissible to treat people like sex objects, it is required to happen so we can call it "freedom"  - but this dehumanizes people and treats them as objects.  

 

* Demonization of men.   Men are treated like garbage (again, dehumanized)  and blamed for all the sexual ills of the world.   Only men rape,   Only men sexually abuse children.   

 

With the explosion of LWW-ism, came the hatred of white people.    It is not considered racist to hate white people.

 

So, we as a society dehumanize people.   Treat men like garbage.   Treat white men like evil people.   And when we have the majority of mass shootings done by people who are marginalized, treated like dirt and dehumanized, people are surprised?

 

Reject the dehumanizing philosophy behind the sexual revolution - that people are nothing but objects to be used.    Reject the LWW-ism which says that bigotry against whites and males is OK.

 

Anything else is just commentary.    This is the root cause of what is happening.

 

Remember, when before 1934, we could buy machine guns by mail and there were zero school shootings?   Yup, no dehumanizing philosophy like the above and no prejudice against whites and males. 


Edited by BobPistol, 31 March 2018 - 04:41 PM.

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#20 45Badger

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 05:40 PM

A small point of order and fact- The “gun show loop hole” is just a private sale that takes place at a gun show. In most of America (as opposed to this flat and corrupt shithole of a state), you can do just that. Most states don’t have the idiotic waiting periods that Illinois uses to keep us safe from ourselves. I’ve bought dozens of guns at gun shows and walked out the door that day. About half were private sales that requires no NICS check. Sales by FFLs require NICS check no matter the venue. On the last 50 years- - Bike helmets - Pot is legal in many places - Stock market and housing values up about a bazillion percent - Lots of single moms and poorly socialized teenagers - We put a man on the moon - Pokémon Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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#21 chicagoresident

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:15 PM

A small point of order and fact-

The gun show loop hole is just a private sale that takes place at a gun show. In most of America (as opposed to this flat and corrupt shithole of a state), you can do just that.

It's a gun grabber euphemism for all private sales. The idea is to ban private party sales and send them all through an FFL. It also closes the "undocumented transfer loophole", bringing us one step closer to a registry. FOPA outlaws registries but they've been trying to get rid of that for a while. Digitize all the old books from defunct dealers, require new dealers to use a digital systems for their books, add 4473/NICS data to a database, etc. They've been setting up the framework for a while.

Edited by chicagoresident, 31 March 2018 - 06:48 PM.


#22 InterestedBystander

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:35 PM

The idea is to ban private party sales and send them all through an FFL.

Like HB5534 scheduled for when the ILGA returns...
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#23 Lou

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 07:06 PM

A small point of order and fact-
The gun show loop hole is just a private sale that takes place at a gun show. In most of America (as opposed to this flat and corrupt shithole of a state), you can do just that.

It's a gun grabber euphemism for all private sales. The idea is to ban private party sales and send them all through an FFL. It also closes the "undocumented transfer loophole", bringing us one step closer to a registry. FOPA outlaws registries but they've been trying to get rid of that for a while. Digitize all the old books from defunct dealers, require new dealers to use a digital systems for their books, add 4473/NICS data to a database, etc. They've been setting up the framework for a while.


We all know that the Chicago Tribune is rabidly anti-gun and one of their head gun hating SJW Darlene Glanton leads the pack.
That is why this column by Glanton is surprisingly honest -Illinois has most of what the gun haters want:

http://www.chicagotr...05-9-story.html
When it comes to background checks — the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s executive actions to keep people who should not have guns from legally purchasing them — Illinois already is far ahead of the rest of the country.

But those on both sides of the gun debate agree that the president’s new policies will have little, if any, direct impact on the flow of illegal guns that are used to commit crimes in Chicago.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -  George Orwell

A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again. 


#24 smokehouse

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:42 AM

I'm younger than many here (born 1977)...maybe I can offer a few things. First off, I'm really not going to address religion, religion has been out there far longer than the US has existed and humans doing horrible tings to each other has been there right along side it. America wasn't a utopia before the 1950's, unlike what some claim.

 

Moving on.

 

I believe there are few really big things that have happened to us as a race since the 1980's.

 

-We started the "run and tell" teaching of Americans. Don't deal with your own problems, go tell someone and they'll deal with it for you. This is a dangerous concept and pushes citizens into the arms of the gov to solve their issues. So many people now seem to lack the ability to deal with even minor social issues...I think this has led to the uber-sensitive, highly offended portion of the population that now exists. This has gotten so bad that many modern parents won't discipline their children. They'll let a child's behavior decay to such levels that they'll bring in a counselor to figure out what the issue is...which leads me to my next point:

 

-The drugging of children. I was smack dab in the first generation to have Ritalin shoved on them for ADD. Now? Our kids are being doped with a library of drugs...and the adults right along with them. This is a horrifically dangerous road we're going down.

 

-The beginning of the children raised by television. As many mentioned, my generation was the first to be latchkey kids...we were the first to have cable with 40-100 channels. This has only gotten worse and now involves the internet. The liberals own the media, it should be no surprise that they shower the youth with their agenda.

 

-The beginning of the Internet/social media age. It is often near impossible to sort fact from crap these days when it comes to news on the internet...and out children are swimming in it. There is so much garbage out there on the web and our children have near free access to all of it. There literally was no equivalency to this when I was in my teens.

 

-The internet being a breeding ground for the mentally ill. It was FAR more difficult to get mental confirmation of your insanity 20 years ago. Now? No matter how nuts you are, there are places where you can go online where others will tell you it's perfectly normal. 

 

There's more, but I feel these are a good start.

 

 

Mentally ill individuals, politically radical individuals, rapists, criminals, pedophiles, homicidal individuals, you name it...they've always been out there, now they just have a conduit to meet more like them.



#25 cybermgk

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:14 AM

Participation Trophy's

Not Disciplining Children

Not telling children NO

In addition to many points @chicagoresident has made, I agree with these.  THOUGH participation trophies is really just one manifestation of what I think is the larger issue.  It's a manifestation of this whole concept that our children should never have to feel, 'bad', be hurt in any way, particularly emotionally.  We can't hurt their feelings, so no competitive games, or if there is, then everyone gets the same trophy.  Can't 'pick' teams', can't say anything that might 'offend' anyone, even at the smallest level.  It's produces a bubble.  One learns how to face and positively handle adversity by FACING adversity, NOT by being insulated against it. It has also bred people easily offended and hurt over the smallest things AND making the proverbial mountain from a mole hill from it.  After all, these small slights ARE some of the worst to an 'insulated' person.

 

I also find it interesting that suicide rates were declining from 1950 to a low in 2000.  From then on, they have been rising, every single year.  Hmm, 2000, is about the time Millennials, the generation that "Helicopter Parenting"  and much of the above quoted was used full force on, would be hitting those years for suicide.  To a lesser extent Gen Xers as well, who some, also received this at home and at school. 

 

I'd also add Abandoning Personal Responsibility.  We no longer teach it (as a society, by and large, generally speaking, exceptions not withstanding), force it, nor expect it.  Well, we still expect it in most of the workplaces, but even that is changing.  When we constantly tell people, that it is someone else's fault that you aren't achieving, or this, or that, that little is YOUR personal fault, it is so much easier disregard human life.  When it is so much easier to blame others for your 'hurt', it is so much easier to justify hurting others..  Couple this with that bubble of protection, and never learning how to handle and overcome adversity, and it is a lethal combination.

 

Lastly, it is the Amount and Breadth and Immediacy and OVER Importance of Media/Information.  So, so many of these nutcases (and doing a mass killing requires one to be a nutcase) want to be heard, made famous, etc.  It is SO much easier to be on the media now.  One, there is just so much of it, and it is everywhere.  It is immediate, no more waiting for the 6 o'clock news.  And, because, of how much there is, there is competition for viewership unlike anything in the past.  When there are 1000s of outlets on any number of devices/platforms, there is serious competition.  This competition has caused ever more outrageous, attention grabbing, gory, etc to be shown.  This plays right into these nutcases.  They'll make them famous, and not even infamous.  How many people NOW, crave fame as a top priority compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago?


Edited by cybermgk, 02 April 2018 - 11:16 AM.

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#26 kevinmcc

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:26 AM

Participation Trophy's
Not Disciplining Children
Not telling children NO


Kids locked in house. (Stranger Danger, Parents charged with neglect)
Kids have virtual friends.
Kids act like dicks online, no consequences.
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#27 45 whit

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 05:29 PM

I agree with much that has been stated so far with an emphasis on broken homes and values that can suffer as a result.



#28 vezpa

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:50 PM

Clueless parents breeding.

 

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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those

who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.

                                                    

                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                    - Thomas Jefferson


#29 TomKoz

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 12:05 AM

Clueless parents breeding.
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Great Point !

How about a POID CARD?? Parental Owner ID !!

Can’t gave kids unless you pass all FOID background checks?

Why not ??
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!

#30 Mick G

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 03:39 AM

Clueless parents breeding.

 

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If we wanted to 100% honest, there are people that shouldn't have pets let alone children. 

WHY are you breeding - STOP! You have gone through three dogs and two cats in a little over a year.

You cant return kids to the hospital and you cant put them down. You are/will be horrible parents.

IMHO






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