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Which is better the 45 or 9mm


Uncle Harley

Which is Better  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. 9mm or 45 you must defend your answer



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This may be a little off topic, but I just switched my main carry piece (*outside of Illinois ) from a Ruger LCR .38 to an FN FiveseveN. I had thought of switching to my Kimber Super Carry Pro ( I take the .45 side of this arguement ) but the FiveseveN although big, is very light. It doesn't have the knockdown power of either a 9mm or a .45 but I am very accurate with it. Very! I am pretty good with the Kimber, but I can drive nails with the FiveseveN.

 

I did this because the little LCR really hurts to shoot. It has the trigger pull of a Home Depot calking gun, and after 7 yards, who knows where the bullet will go. It's advantages are that it is really small and light, and it's cheap if some yahoo cop wants to confiscate it over an obscure local ordinance.

 

The FiveseveN is not cheap. It only has a fraction of the knock down power ( I still might switch to the kimber eventually ), it is hated by law enforcement because with SS190 AP bullets it will go through vests. ( I don't have any AP bullets ), and although very light, it is big. Another disadvantage is that I can't take it into The Peoples Democratic Republic of California because to them, it's an "assault weapon".

 

We will see how this works out.

 

Back to this thread. I have an FN FNP-9 and a Kimber Super Carry Pro. If I were to choose between those, I'd take the Kimber. Very accurate, and the .45 ACP has been proven in wars for 100 years.

 

would love to try out a Fiveseven I hear they are similar to 22 mag. And BALL AMMO has been proven in wars, I've already stated that it is obvious which is superior in ball ammo.

 

 

The accuracy part though is valid reason, are you more accurate with 45 in general, or just more accurate with it out of those two particular guns.

 

The FN 5.7 x 28 is closer to a .223 than a .22 mag. Its about the same impact energy as a 9mm. A big reason I like it for carry is the SS191 / SS195 ammo I use disintegrates on impact. I don't ever want one of my bullets hurting anyone its not supposed to.

 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

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We are said to have the 45acp because of the failure to stop from the 38 long colt, even though the rifle was not doing much better back then.

Location, location, location. The caliber does not matter.

I support my opinion by believing that everyone on this forum would fear and respect any caliber launched their direction.

probably the bullet that does the most damage is that soft lead ball propelled by black powder.

Students have complained that the 9 bites their hand. The hot powder does snap that bullet out fast. Of course the 45 has recoil. But with practice both are effective.

Location, location, location and prayer.

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...It has the trigger pull of a Home Depot calking gun, and after 7 yards, who knows where the bullet will go....

 

WELL DONE SIR!!! That description fits my beloved MDE 380 as well...Never mind the fact that the reward for pulling that caulking gun trigger is a weapon that tries to jump out of your hands like a greasy catfish when it discharges.

 

I want to thank the members here for the most civil and informative thread I have ever read about caliber choice.

 

It seems that once again we are seeing that folks choose a caliber based on their personal needs/situation and that there is no right or wrong choice. It is very interesting to read what influences their/your decision i.e. reloading taking away the cost factor.

 

I choose 9mm for the primary reason that I can practice a ton more for less money than a 45 would cost me. As others have stated, it doesn't matter if you shoot a RPG at a BG if you cant hit him. Shooting 9mm allows me to expend over 600 rounds a month in practice (with funds left over to stockpile a little more.) I simply could not afford to do that with a 45. My personal choice is to choose the caliber that allows me to become as proficient as possible. I have every belief that (God forbid) if I ever need to use it, I will be able to hit where I aim. That is the bottom line for me. :cool:

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i hate these loaded questions, but i always have been a fan of the 45, 40, and 9mm.

Simple math shows the breakdown of the cartridges in power factor.

9mm m/v 1300 f/s 115gn p/f 150

.40 m/v 1050f/s 180gn p/f 189

.45 m/v 900 f/s 230gn p/f 207

 

If you wanted a fact then yes 45 has more power,

it also has more recoil.

9mm less force more controllable.

 

If you are looking for opinions between the 2 cartridges.

 

i say it is all BULL****!! NOBODY wants to get shot by anygun. If the need arised to have a gunfight you are not gonna be thinking about the stopping power or the recoil. The best caliber is what is loaded in the gun you are carrying. I am sure plenty of crimes have been deterred by a 22lr revolver being produced. If I were really concerned about having the most effective stopping power I would have a 50ae.

I have and do carry all three calibers and I don't think that it will really matter much when the time comes. Plenty of people have been killed by lesser cartridges.

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We are said to have the 45acp because of the failure to stop from the 38 long colt, even though the rifle was not doing much better back then.

Location, location, location. The caliber does not matter.

I support my opinion by believing that everyone on this forum would fear and respect any caliber launched their direction.

probably the bullet that does the most damage is that soft lead ball propelled by black powder.

Students have complained that the 9 bites their hand. The hot powder does snap that bullet out fast. Of course the 45 has recoil. But with practice both are effective.

Location, location, location and prayer.

 

 

you said it brother!! +1

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Stopping power is secondary to shot placement. If you can't place your shots where they will incapacitate your assailant, it doesn't matter what caliber you shoot.

 

I prefer 9mm because it is easier to control, especially for rapid follow-up shots. Additionally, I can afford to practice A LOT more with a 9mm than a .40 or a .45.

 

As far as different guns and calibers for different situations, I am a fan of the KISS principle. I have one CCW pistol in 9mm that I practice with and carry where legal. I compete with the full size version of this pistol in 9mm to keep the feel and skill set as similar as possible.

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Howdy Uncle,

 

I didn't vote because I have & use both calibers. Like Kurt, I like the FNP-9, because of controlability and use a Colt .45ACP. It depend on the situation of what is happening that day. I purchased a Kel-Tec PF-9 for conceallability, but kicks worst than the .45. So that would be religated to back-up, if I'm carrying the 9MM's.

When travelling/camping, I always have the Colt. I do carry, now more so than the Colt, a Springfield Armory 1911A1, with 14 rounds in the house at night. In my BOB(GMH), I carry 2- Glock 22's & Kel-Tec Sub-2000, in .40(GlockMags) with about 100 rounds. I like all the calibers mentioned.

 

BTW, I just entered a 12 step program,where the first step is admitting you have a problem. I like GUNS!!!!!!!!!! So Ijust admitted it for all to see.

 

jkrzos

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Both are used, and it depends on what the situation is, type of dress.

 

But While doing some testing on body armor, one thing got my attention.

 

We hit it with a 9mm and it took 10 rounds to start to get through the vest to where is was very degraded. the vest would kinda wad up a bit thengo back to hanging from the target holder.

 

I lined up with my 45 and the vest ws wadded up like a kleenex and shoved through the hole in the target backing and sent flying several feet away. While not scientific, it told me about the amount of energy contained in the round.

 

I know people talk about running out of ammo, but from all the DGU stories I read, I have yet to read one where the LAC ran out, even with a bouble barreld shotgun. Now I don't want to and that's why i have spare mags, but if 8 -10 rounds of 45 acp doesn't do it, i am a bad shot or in some deep kimchee.

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I shoot 9mm for the basic reason that it's cheaper to shoot, and therefore i can get more trigger time. Think of the saying "you can't miss fast enough to catch up". Large magazine capacity not withstanding, if you can't hit what your aiming at because you haven't trained with your gun then you could be using a howitzer and still have no effect on the target. I also believe that with the new JHP bullets and advances in technology that a 9mm will do that job. yes it might take 2-3 shots to put the bad guy down for good but even if I shoot him with a .45 I'd still put 2-3 rounds them just to be sure! No reason to take chances, bullets are cheap, life is expensive. Also, if i had the choice I of what to use, I would always always bring a long gun!

 

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/ammunition/2009/02/petzal-rules-gunfighting

 

Number 7: 7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

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To this debate, there is no “right” answer. There is only a “right for you” answer or “right for a specific situation” answer. (e.g. if carrying a firearm in 9mm or in .45 meets your needs better.) Personally, 9mm meets my needs in a much better way. I can much more comfortably carry a smaller firearm in 9mm and can better conceal it. That is the main reason. But also, I think it is easier to accurately fire a smaller round in a non full-size firearm. The reduced recoil is a big difference is a compact “carry” gun. The additional magazine capacity of a double-stack would be a bonus in an emergency situation. And 9mm is much cheaper, so I am more likely to practice frequently at the shooting range with my defensive weapon.

 

One other point is that there is really no such thing as “knockdown power” or similar with a handgun round, IMO. Unless you have incapacitated the central nervous system, the “bad guy” can probably physically keep going for a period of several minutes or more. The thing “stopping” most people is the psychological realization of “I was shot” and the pain.

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To this debate, there is no "right" answer. There is only a "right for you" answer or "right for a specific situation" answer. (e.g. if carrying a firearm in 9mm or in .45 meets your needs better.) Personally, 9mm meets my needs in a much better way. I can much more comfortably carry a smaller firearm in 9mm and can better conceal it. That is the main reason. But also, I think it is easier to accurately fire a smaller round in a non full-size firearm. The reduced recoil is a big difference is a compact "carry" gun. The additional magazine capacity of a double-stack would be a bonus in an emergency situation. And 9mm is much cheaper, so I am more likely to practice frequently at the shooting range with my defensive weapon.

 

One other point is that there is really no such thing as "knockdown power" or similar with a handgun round, IMO. Unless you have incapacitated the central nervous system, the "bad guy" can probably physically keep going for a period of several minutes or more. The thing "stopping" most people is the psychological realization of "I was shot" and the pain.

 

 

 

 

you are absoutly 100% correct, there is no right answer, only a right for you answer. That was the entire point to make people think for themselves, too many times I think people choose what's right for them based on someone else's reasons , Like for example, look at CCspinner's reply aparently he can't read or just thought he would be clever but either way, you know he didn't come up with the 9 mm may or may not expand but a 45 will never shrink. I KNOW people who are hung up on this, one buddy in particular says he will only carry his 45, only problem I have with that is, He NEVER carries it. One of our recent conversations went like this when we met up for dinner in IN. It will give you some insight on why I started this thread.

 

Me : you packin?

 

Him: Nah not tonight, You?

 

Me: Always.

 

Him: well I wanted to wear this nice shirt and it doesn't look right unless it's tucked in, it prints too bad when I'm tucked.

 

Me: so get a small gun like mine.

 

Him but you carry a nine, or that funny little 22 mag.

 

Me: yeah so what?

 

Him. But they say a 9 is useless in self defense.

 

Me Who is they?

 

Him You know the experts.

 

me What do your experts tell you about leaving your gun at home?

 

 

Him ( studders a bit) Um Um ...UH well you got me on that one, but what is the use of carrying a little 9 all the time if it's useless?

 

 

 

 

Now my buddy is not a dummy, he's a well know business man in the area and he fully believes it's gotta be 45 all or nothing but can't figure out a system that works for him most of the time so he just does with out . I know he can't be the only one that thinks that way!

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They both have their place. The .45 on my right hip, the 9 on my left ankle. (and the .25 in my right pants pocket and the .22 derringer in the left pants pocket)

 

 

 

Not really, but I thought it made a cute post. I own both, and other calibers. Use the right tool for the situation, and put the bullets where they need to go, and they all will work.

 

Tim

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Now my buddy is not a dummy, he's a well know business man in the area and he fully believes it's gotta be 45 all or nothing but can't figure out a system that works for him most of the time so he just does with out . I know he can't be the only one that thinks that way!

 

In the past I've had issues with this as well, I REALLY prefer a full size handgun but was very concerned about it being spotted. This was when I lived in NC, the law there (at the time anyway) said that if someone else spotted it on you, they could ask store managers to evict you from the store if they were nervous about it, etc. I believe the term was "carrying to the terror of the public" but don't recall exactly. At any rate, I often left my gun at home in the warmer months because of clothing choices.

 

I became accustomed with IN law when I moved back here (open carry or concealed doesn't matter) and realized that I was much more conscious of the gun than others were. I don't open carry but I learned that it was mostly in my mind when I was worried that others could see that bump in my shirt, etc. The more I have carried, the more I quit thinking about it; I used to subconsciously check my gun or tug at my shirt to make sure it was still hidden, now i just accept that it is.

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you are absoutly 100% correct, there is no right answer, only a right for you answer. That was the entire point to make people think for themselves, too many times I think people choose what's right for them based on someone else's reasons , Like for example, look at CCspinner's reply aparently he can't read or just thought he would be clever but either way, you know he didn't come up with the 9 mm may or may not expand but a 45 will never shrink. I KNOW people who are hung up on this, one buddy in particular says he will only carry his 45, only problem I have with that is, He NEVER carries it. One of our recent conversations went like this when we met up for dinner in IN. It will give you some insight on why I started this thread.

 

Me : you packin?

 

Him: Nah not tonight, You?

 

Me: Always.

 

Him: well I wanted to wear this nice shirt and it doesn't look right unless it's tucked in, it prints too bad when I'm tucked.

 

Me: so get a small gun like mine.

 

Him but you carry a nine, or that funny little 22 mag.

 

Me: yeah so what?

 

Him. But they say a 9 is useless in self defense.

 

Me Who is they?

 

Him You know the experts.

 

me What do your experts tell you about leaving your gun at home?

 

 

Him ( studders a bit) Um Um ...UH well you got me on that one, but what is the use of carrying a little 9 all the time if it's useless?

 

Now my buddy is not a dummy, he's a well know business man in the area and he fully believes it's gotta be 45 all or nothing but can't figure out a system that works for him most of the time so he just does with out . I know he can't be the only one that thinks that way!

 

You know, I am a huge fan of the 1911 and .45 in general and I caught myself thinking like that once...ONCE. I'm sorry, but those people who always quote the "experts" about the 9mm being ineffective really get me steamed. One guy at work said that about the 9mm and I asked him to let me shoot him, just ONCE with a 9mm and then he could take a shot at me with anything he wanted, 12ga, .50 cal and once he thought about it, he said heck no. Everyone gets hung up on horror stories of some muscly bodybuilder hopped up on PCP with the skin of a Rhino that will absorb 9mm by the bucketload and keep coming. The same stories exist with ALL calibers. Well in that .01% chance sure I would like a .45 over a 9mm, but your general criminal will be just as sorry getting tagged by a 9mm or .22 WMR as he would a .45, .44 or a frickin elephant gun. And if that doped up Mr Universe does charge you and all you have is a pea shooter, a T zone shot is pretty much the universal excitement ender.

 

All that said, I vote for .45, no scientific bearing or philisophical debate to be had. I just like this tidbit of trivia that I came across before....

 

"In 1916, John J. "Blackjack Pershing led a mounted expeditionary force of the US Army 8th Brigade out of Ft. Bliss, Texas into Mexico for the purposes of capturing or killing Mexican revolutionary Francesco "Pancho" Villa. The excursion was unsuccessful, but the US Cavalry met Villas "Bandistas" on several occasions.

 

The 1911 has had many unofficial nicknames attached to it over the years by the men who carried it into the killing fields. "Old Slabsides" "Old Ugly" "Old Bigmouth" and "The Army Automatic" to name a few of the more memorable ones...but none was so colorful...and maybe even romantic...as that given it by Villa's Bandistas who...after having been fortunate enough to survive being shot by the big Colt...reported that it felt like being punched by a large man.

 

To its American fans and historians, it's simply the Model of 1911 US Army. To the Mexican Bandistas in 1916...it was known as... "The Yankee Fist."

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9mm. It is what I have and it is what I am most comfortable using. I have shot 9mm in practice shooting paper. I have shot 9mm in practice in informal IDPA/IPSC settings. I have shot @1,500 rounds of 9mm though my Glock17 in a weekend class. I have plinked with 9mm at cans and other fun targets. If there is a round that I am most happy with, it would be the 9mm.

 

If I wanted more stopping power, I'd grab a rifle.

 

 

 

post-1531-132675716066.jpg

(I have a 10mm too, but that wasn't included in the poll. B) )

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I have been very good and kept out of this just waiting for the fur to fly.

 

A couple of observations though. To those of you who actually know me, you know I am a totally devoted 1911 person. I first started carrying on in 1966 when I was 18 in Vietnam and I have always had one within easy reach for the last (GASP!)46 years.

 

Here's a couple of things you really need to know about 1911s if you are planning on carrying one for self-defense. Unless you spend the big bucks to get a properly tuned 1911, you need to realize that the 1911 is a labor intensive pistol. It has a LOT of parts and each one needs to work with every other part. If you can't afford to buy a big buck version, you will need to pay for a lot of upgrades to make it shootable. If you have one with a less then five inch barrel, there is factory ammo out there that you will not be able to depend on and you have to find which ones they are on your own because every gun is different.

 

Somebody mentioned that the .45 has been killing people for over 100 years and that is very true. But the 9mm has been killing a LOT more people for the same amount of time. I am not sure what either statistic really shows though.

 

Here's another tip from the morgue. While doing my Masters in Forensic Ballistics as a cop, I participated in over 100 post mortums, yep, autopsys. Because I was studiing ballistic wounding, all involved gun shot wounds. There were many 9mm and .45 and other calibers but by far and wide, the main gunshot cause of death is done by the .22long rifle. Notice that I am not mentioning anything about the "put down capabiltity" of the deaths I investigated because the .22 long rifle doesn't "put down". but once shot with a .22lr, a person has a very good chance of dying from it, more than any other caliber. There is a reason for it but that would better fit in a different thread.

 

Modern day ammunition is pretty far advanced from even just 30 years ago when the "wonder 9s" first became popular. It was first thought the 115 grain 9mm, moving along at or about 900 fps was a pretty good round and then real life proved that wrong. They caused everyone to address that problem (and underpowered .38 spl) by developing better cartridge cases to handle "+P" and then "+P+" ammunition. I used to carry 110 grain SuperVel in my my Smith Model 19 and thought I was pretty hot stuff. I never carried .357 magnum SuperVel because I was convinced that it would probably alter the time-space continuim.

 

If you consider years ago when you were chucking rocks at your friends in dirt clod fights (we all know you did) think about the size of the projectile. If you tossed one of those perfectly shaped little river rock pebbles, you could toss them pretty hard and they were moving pretty fast when they nailed that smarmy Pete Wilson in the back of the head and sometimes, they even drew blood.

 

Cool stuff.

 

But, you never ever picked up and chucked one of those river rock fist sized boulders because 1) they weren't going as fast and 2) if you did connect with one of them then someone was probably going home on an improvised stretcher.

 

The correlation of chucking rocks and the difference between 9mm and .45 acp is about the same. 9mm is small and because of that it is moving fast (1150 fps is the low end) and you can fire a whole mess of them and hit the target because there is a lot less recoil. The target will go down after one hit to the central nervous system or after multiple hits to the cardio-vascular system. The .45 acp, weighing about twice as much, is quiote similar to the large rock. It delivers a much slower but much bigger round to the target. Because it is much bigger and moving slower, chances are it will do much more damage on initial impact. Also, because it is moving slower, there is a very good chance that it will deliver all of its energy into the target and because it doesn't go all the way through, the energy stays in the target. A 9mm, unless it hits something substantial like a bone, will more liukely than not, pass through the target which means a certain amount of it's energy stays at the target but some of it is carried out the other side. For our purposes, "energy" equates to "torque".

 

So, in summary, which caliber is better?

 

Beats me. I like a 1911, I like the way it feels in my hand, I like how accurate I can be with one anbd frankly, I know for a fact that if you pull a 1911 and point it someone, there is a great deal of intimidation just looking at the bore and that means you may not have to squeeze the trigger at all.

 

What do I carry? A Glock 17, a Glock 19 or a Kahr PM9 depending on the clothing and where I am headed. Why? I don't know, probably becxause the Glock is only 30 year old technology, probably because I can shoot 9mm a lot cheaper which means I practice more, also probably i can get away with only cleaning my Glocks in even numbered years and the gun will still fire. (try that with a 1911)

 

My Glock 19 with 16 rounds of NATO 124 gr full metal jacket loaded weights leass then half of a Springer 1911 Loaded with just eight rounds. I rarely carry another magazine for the Glock I always have with a 1911.

 

I guess what it really all comes down is what you think you can use to be more effective, or maybe what you think makes you look cooler. I pretty much use both of those criterias every time I leave the house.

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