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#1 TomKoz

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 12:29 AM

I have been on this site for almost 10 years now.

I have watched, donated, and worked for getting IL conceal carry.

Question. Has the ... Shall NOT be infringed. portion of the of the 2A actually ever been challenged??

I see all sorts of cases. But have yet, at least I cant remember, one specifically arguing the
...Shall NOT be infringed. portion.
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!
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Yeah, Id die for my country, but Ive been trained to make the other guy die for his instead !

#2 Flynn

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 03:59 AM

I have been on this site for almost 10 years now.

I have watched, donated, and worked for getting IL conceal carry.

Question. Has the ... Shall NOT be infringed. portion of the of the 2A actually ever been challenged??

I see all sorts of cases. But have yet, at least I cant remember, one specifically arguing the
...Shall NOT be infringed. portion.

 

I believe this is the next step now that the Supreme Court has ruled it an individual right.  No right is absolute, so we need a Supreme Court case that defines and applies what level of scrutiny should be applied to the 2nd as an individual right (it should be as strict as any other enumerated rights like the 1st) hopefully the NYSRPA is the start of that.


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#3 BobPistol

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 08:47 AM

Self-defense is a fundamental human right.

It is the fundamental right of life.  It is the most important right.

Without the right to life, all other human rights become null and void. 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#4 Str8Shooter

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 11:04 AM

Just because a government doesn't recognize a Right of the People doesn't mean that the right doesn't exist.

 

 

Governments that deny recognition of the Rights of the People should find their own recognition as lawgivers challenged by the people they purportedly represent.

 

 

Steps on a slippery slope in later Amendments and court decisions have been reduced in law from Rights and Liberties to Privileges and Immunities to be reservedly granted.

 

 

This is an overstepping contrary to democracy.

 

 

The Bill of Rights was a concession to Anti-Federalists to forestall a second Constitutional Convention.

 

 

See "The Bill of Rights, the Fight to Secure America's Liberties" by Carol Berkin.



#5 JTHunter

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 11:18 PM

Self-defense is a fundamental human right.

It is the fundamental right of life.  It is the most important right.

Without the right to life, all other human rights become null and void. 

Agreed !!

Even the lowly amoeba has the genetic instinct for self-preservation using its own resources.  We, thanks to our greater mental capacity and technological achievements, have more options for defense available to us than just "physical prowess".  There is no valid reason that we should be limited to our own physical capabilities instead of using our "tool-making/use" ability to lessen the disparity between opponents (such as male vs. female).


“We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” - - Abraham Lincoln

“Small minds adhere to the letter of the law; great minds dispense Justice.” - - S. C. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#6 rmart

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 08:45 AM

 

Self-defense is a fundamental human right.

It is the fundamental right of life.  It is the most important right.

Without the right to life, all other human rights become null and void. 

Agreed !!

Even the lowly amoeba ...  (such as female vs. female). FIFY


 

 

Women are much more likely to have to defend themselves against men than men vs. women. (which is what you meant anyway :P)

 

My daughter is in college. She told me the other day that a boy had opened up her dorm room and peeked in. It was an accident (wrong door) and he was embarrassed and apologized and left right away but the college has a strict 'no weapons' policy. It occurred to me that to a woman, all men carry a weapon and I'm not just talking about their greater size and strength... Why can't my daughter have even a knife. I have an old West German spring-loaded extendable baton. I'd give that to her but she'd probably get in trouble with that as well.


Edited by rmart, 26 January 2020 - 08:46 AM.

Member: NRA (Endowment Life), ISRA, Gun Owners of America

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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to buy cars... ~unknown

 

The problem is not guns! It's hearts without God, homes without discipline, schools without prayer, and courts without justice. ~unknown

 

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.

While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader." ~ Samuel Adams 1779 to James Warren

 

Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster

 

How much can you put in your signature before it becomes too long??

 


#7 custodian7138

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 11:44 AM

 

 


 

 

 I have an old West German spring-loaded extendable baton. I'd give that to her but she'd probably get in trouble with that as well.

 

 

 

I would suggest the handy dandy 2-D cell Maglight.

 



#8 Tip

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 10:26 PM

4 cell mag light — either C or D cell - or a 6 cell D cell (don’t think they make a 6 C cell) would be better. The 4 C works for smaller statures while the 6 D can be a formidable weapon.....
Never Engage in a Battle of Wits with an unarmed person.

#9 rmart

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 10:49 PM

I remember when the cops started carrying those and as they approached they would hold them over their shoulder just behind the head of the flashlight ready to bring them down on you if they thought you needed a good thump.

I like the flashlight idea, I think I'll do that.


Member: NRA (Endowment Life), ISRA, Gun Owners of America

Retired Firefighter/Paramedic

Father of two great kids and husband of one great wife

 

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to buy cars... ~unknown

 

The problem is not guns! It's hearts without God, homes without discipline, schools without prayer, and courts without justice. ~unknown

 

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.

While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader." ~ Samuel Adams 1779 to James Warren

 

Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster

 

How much can you put in your signature before it becomes too long??

 


#10 Charles Nichols

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 03:11 AM

I have been on this site for almost 10 years now.

I have watched, donated, and worked for getting IL conceal carry.

Question. Has the ... Shall NOT be infringed. portion of the of the 2A actually ever been challenged??

I see all sorts of cases. But have yet, at least I cant remember, one specifically arguing the
...Shall NOT be infringed. portion.

 

From my opening brief in Charles Nichols v. Gavin Newsom et al (formerly v. Edmund G. Brown Jr., et al).

 

"This Court is not allowed to engage in judicial interest-balancing, ends means testing, or to engage in its own historical analysis. The Second Amendment comes with its own standard of judicial review. If a law infringes on the Second Amendment right then it is unconstitutional."

 

You and I no doubt disagree as to whether or not the 19th-century prohibitions on concealed carry infringe on the Second Amendment right (I agree with the Heller decision), but to answer your question, "Yes.  There is "one specifically arguing the ...Shall NOT be infringed. portion."


Concealed carry is of no use to me because I don't carry a purse or wear a dress, and I'm not into secret advantage and unmanly assassination.

 

"Should the Open Carry movement become successful it will result in the greatest dissolution of government power since the collapse of the Soviet Union." - Charles Nichols
 
"If a monkey looks into a book, a sage cannot look out." - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
 
"La plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas." - Charles Baudelaire 
 
"God doesn't want me and the devil isn't finished with me." - Raymond Reddington
 
"When you lift the last veil, you might discover that your bride is an ignorant, illiterate child living in a world of fear and superstition." - Charles Nichols.* 
 
* I posted this on my Facebook page on May 20, 2011.  Unable to find its origin, I claim to be its creator.

#11 TomKoz

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 12:31 PM

^^^ I wish you luck and winning
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!
11Bravo Infantry
Yeah, Id die for my country, but Ive been trained to make the other guy die for his instead !

#12 mab22

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 11:03 PM

I have been on this site for almost 10 years now.

I have watched, donated, and worked for getting IL conceal carry.

Question. Has the ... Shall NOT be infringed. portion of the of the 2A actually ever been challenged??

I see all sorts of cases. But have yet, at least I cant remember, one specifically arguing the
...Shall NOT be infringed. portion.

As I understand it the FOID is an infringement and it would be a 14th amendment challenge. There might actually be more infringements than the FOID, but its an easy place to start.

The specific part of the 14th amendment is in section 1 sentence 2. From what I understand you can challenge the 2A restrictions from the side but not a direct challenge, I'm not sure of the why's.

 

The specific language is -

" No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

The problem as I understand it is there are many "Fudds", as stated on this site, that feel that the FOID does more good than bad by preventing people from purchasing firearms that shouldn't have them, despite the known failures of the system. For those wanting specific failures, 1. Aurora, 2. Chicago criminals in general.


Void the FOID!

#13 Charles Nichols

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 03:39 AM

 

I have been on this site for almost 10 years now.

I have watched, donated, and worked for getting IL conceal carry.

Question. Has the ... Shall NOT be infringed. portion of the of the 2A actually ever been challenged??

I see all sorts of cases. But have yet, at least I cant remember, one specifically arguing the
...Shall NOT be infringed. portion.

As I understand it the FOID is an infringement and it would be a 14th amendment challenge. There might actually be more infringements than the FOID, but its an easy place to start.

The specific part of the 14th amendment is in section 1 sentence 2. From what I understand you can challenge the 2A restrictions from the side but not a direct challenge, I'm not sure of the why's.

 

The specific language is -

" No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

The problem as I understand it is there are many "Fudds", as stated on this site, that feel that the FOID does more good than bad by preventing people from purchasing firearms that shouldn't have them, despite the known failures of the system. For those wanting specific failures, 1. Aurora, 2. Chicago criminals in general.

 

Challenging the FOID would be a direct Second Amendment challenge.  If there are persons "similarly situated" who are treated unequally in some respect, such as in being issued a FOID or in not being required to have a FOID or some other relevant difference (e.g., race) then that would be a 14th Amendment challenge in addition to a 2A challenge.

 

The Supreme Court did not apply the Second Amendment to the states via the privileges or immunities clause.  Justice Thomas filed a concurrence to the McDonald decision that said that is how he would have applied it to the states.  The McDonald decision applied the Second Amendment to the states via the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.  Justice Gorsuch views them as two lanes on the same highway but there is a very significant difference between the two methods of incorporation which Justice Thomas acknowledged in his concurrence to McDonald.


Concealed carry is of no use to me because I don't carry a purse or wear a dress, and I'm not into secret advantage and unmanly assassination.

 

"Should the Open Carry movement become successful it will result in the greatest dissolution of government power since the collapse of the Soviet Union." - Charles Nichols
 
"If a monkey looks into a book, a sage cannot look out." - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
 
"La plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas." - Charles Baudelaire 
 
"God doesn't want me and the devil isn't finished with me." - Raymond Reddington
 
"When you lift the last veil, you might discover that your bride is an ignorant, illiterate child living in a world of fear and superstition." - Charles Nichols.* 
 
* I posted this on my Facebook page on May 20, 2011.  Unable to find its origin, I claim to be its creator.

#14 vern

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 09:21 PM

I remember when the cops started carrying those and as they approached they would hold them over their shoulder just behind the head of the flashlight ready to bring them down on you if they thought you needed a good thump.

I like the flashlight idea, I think I'll do that.

Commonly called tonk lights because that’s the sound they make on someone’s head.



#15 JTHunter

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 10:35 PM

4 cell mag light — either C or D cell - or a 6 cell D cell (don’t think they make a 6 C cell) would be better. The 4 C works for smaller statures while the 6 D can be a formidable weapon.....

Maglite might make a 6 D cell flashlight (I don't know) but they do (or did) make a 5 D cell light because I have one.  The problem is it is over 20 years old and is basically for "emergencies".  There are a lot of women that would find its weight (4-5 lbs.) and 19.5" length cumbersome.  It is also 1 5/8" in diameter on the battery compartment and 2 1/4" on the bulb area.

While the "baton" might cause her some trouble, as long she doesn't need it and keeps it collapsed, who is any the wiser?


“We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” - - Abraham Lincoln

“Small minds adhere to the letter of the law; great minds dispense Justice.” - - S. C. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

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#16 TomKoz

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 11:06 PM

^^^^ could be a .... lightsaber.... I mean lifesaver
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!
11Bravo Infantry
Yeah, Id die for my country, but Ive been trained to make the other guy die for his instead !




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