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#31 HeavyDuty

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 12:10 PM

I tend to be more middle of the road than most of you, and many of my positions would be viewed as liberal. I think both the government and the bluenoses have no business in my business. However, there’s no *&#$ing way I could ever vote for Hillary or any of the other crop of current progressives, and not just for 2A reasons.

#32 OldMarineVet

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:45 PM

They'll sell out the second amendment the moment Hilldog says "turn them in".

Yes, and it started with voting for Hildog instead of Trump.



#33 rmart

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 06:58 PM

 

I am reminded of something I heard of one of those youtube things from Dennis Prager. 

 

It boiled down to basically "Liberals are not the left." The left are those that claimed the name, but are not liberal.

 

Seems to me that there are a few here that claim the title liberal. Okay, as long as we all agree that the 2nd is sacrosanct, we can argue about other important topics, if we want to. Thick crust vs thin crust, for example.Cubs vs Sox, or where the best vacation spots are.

 

Liberals with guns.....no biggie. 

 

Leftists with guns.....hello Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, etc.   Big difference.

 

JMHO

Thin crust.  Pretty well known fact.

 

 

+1

We should form a new political party

We could call it umm... The Pizza Party!!


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#34 skinnyb82

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:24 AM

I don't think people grasp the size of the bullet we dodged by Hillary losing and not having Garland end up on SCOTUS, Lynch as AG, and all of her shenanigans swept under the rug. I have explained that to people and I always hear "I didn't know...." yup that's because you consume MSM drivel. WaPo reporter gets caught rubbing shoulders with Soros, thanks for giving me ANOTHER reason to not trust that publication. Grassley just knocked the teeth out of Democrats' mouths by removing the blue slip rule. Trump has double the amount of judicial nominees that Obama had when he took office and he isn't screwing around with packing courts with originalists. For Article III courts (courts "created" by SCOTUS under Article III), ten circuit judge nominees, 35 district judge nominees as of 10 days ago. There are 6 pending nominations for Article I courts (legislative courts). Best advice I can give is to pack the courts with YOUNG originalist judges. They'll reshape the judiciary for a generation.

I tend to be more middle of the road than most of you, and many of my positions would be viewed as liberal. I think both the government and the bluenoses have no business in my business. However, there’s no *$ing way I could ever vote for Hillary or any of the other crop of current progressives, and not just for 2A reasons.
I also consider myself a liberal....a classical liberal. I'm middle of the road, a "millennial" (right on the cutoff between Gens X and Y so I wasn't indoctrinated in school...or the tactics didn't work, whatever heh). Classical liberalism aka what is now considered "conservatism" (what a paradox) or libertarianism believes in civil rights and economic freedom. Limited government role is a hallmark. Live and let live. You're a classical liberal, not to be confused with neoliberal (statists, Marxist beliefs). I've not yet met someone who identifies as a liberal (neoliberal) and who believes in economic freedom, property rights, limited government, or respects my constitutional right to own and carry firearms. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#35 OldMarineVet

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:21 AM

1) You said "I don't think people grasp the size of the bullet we dodged by Hillary.." Excellent point. And I find that frustrating.

2) You said "originalist judge." Isn't it amazing how the Left can make up new terms to justify their judges changing the U.S. Constitution on the fly? There's really no other way to interpret the U.S. Constitution.

3) Yes, the left has made up new definitions for what was considered "liberal" and new terms. But throughout that mess, I can tell you and I are shoulder-to-shoulder defending our Constitution. And that's what matters.

#36 chicagoresident

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 01:39 PM

I can't begrudge certain people for voting Democrat. I too am a "classic liberal", but guns will always be a single voter issue for me. Without guns in the hands of people none of the other laws and rights matter.

But I'm not going to hate on single issue democrat voters either. Some people would like to legally (federally speaking) smoke pot and that's going to be difficult with Jeff Sessions as the AG. Or, in prior elections where both Democrats and Republicans were anti gay unions (equal rights to married in financial and other legal proceedings) aside from a handful of candidates in the ranks on both sides. Or someone that has an illegal immigrant family member living with them, when most candidates aside from Trump supported a path to legalization. Or anyone that wants to do in vitro fertilization that might be affected by hardline abortion laws.

But when you own guns and someone wants to punish you for owning those guns you begin to see the tyranny from either side's perspective. There are more gun owners then any of the other special interest groups I mentioned.

And when new democrat gun owners see the multiple at a cost background checks they need to pass, the hoops they have to jump through if they want to bring their guns outside the house, and how easy it is to run afoul of the law with a single accessory, they'll actually gain the "common sense" they need to uphold gun rights.

When the Democrats find out that their laws favor old rich white guys that can afford the cost of multiple licenses/permits/stamps, a lawyer on retainer, and a social status that doesn't get profiled and scrutinized to follow the letter of the rediculous gun laws they'll be outraged at themselves.

#37 skinnyb82

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:21 PM

I frankly do not care if someone wants to smoke a doobie on their couch while watching "Up In Smoke." Assuming the person is responsible (those are becoming few and far between lately). Don't bother me and I won't bother you. But when they seek to take away my rights, that's when I have a big problem. That seems to be the prevailing school of thought around here. Live and let live, but don't you dare mess with MY life or hamstring me by trying to strip my rights from me because you "don't agree" with me owning firearms. I mind my own damn business, just wish others would do the same. @OldMarineVet The term "liberal" has been so perverted that it has no meaning. Just like "conservative." I vote Republican because it's always the Republican who doesn't wanna increase my taxes, take my guns, insult me for having the "nerve" to email them about something. Meanwhile, the Republicans I've dealt with have always been polite, they (usually) don't wanna take more of my money, and they don't insult me for my views. I've dealt with local Democrat politicians and they're just...they're nuts. Some lawyer who ran for SA and lost and who actually believes "collusion" is a federal crime. It makes me wanna do a face-palm when I hear a well-known criminal defense lawyer not know criminal law...or even bother to learn it. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Edited by skinnyb82, 26 November 2017 - 03:30 PM.

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#38 tbrooks

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 03:01 PM

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there. I had the hardest time with my transition because I spent years listening to the vile comments coming out of some on the right and I thought to myself, "self.....why would you want to belong to that? They don't want you." Then I realized that the GOP was a lot larger than some websites chat room or ignorant base who claim to be Nazi's but yet still call themselves Americans. So I finally made the switch from DEM to GOP back in 2004? Bush vs Kerry. I get called all types of names by the other side now...mainly sell out or Uncle Tom but oh well. The GOP could have a way larger base if others felt they belonged. I must be honest that now I am embarrassed by many on the right as I am not a Trump guy. Keep the GOP in power but I am just not a fan of the current president who is not a true conservative IMO.



#39 tkroenlein

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 04:22 PM

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there. I had the hardest time with my transition because I spent years listening to the vile comments coming out of some on the right and I thought to myself, "self.....why would you want to belong to that? They don't want you." Then I realized that the GOP was a lot larger than some websites chat room or ignorant base who claim to be Nazi's but yet still call themselves Americans. So I finally made the switch from DEM to GOP back in 2004? Bush vs Kerry. I get called all types of names by the other side now...mainly sell out or Uncle Tom but oh well. The GOP could have a way larger base if others felt they belonged. I must be honest that now I am embarrassed by many on the right as I am not a Trump guy. Keep the GOP in power but I am just not a fan of the current president who is not a true conservative IMO.


I'm not looking for a debate, but I'd pose this question to anyone on the right who still doesn't like him.

What tangible, "not conservative" thing has he done, what policy has he promoted, or what about the conservative ideology has he offended since he's been in office?

He's left social issues alone, he's promoted tax reform, worked on national security, and I think he's even got foreign relations moving in the right direction.

In other words, besides a personality that is, uh, kinda annoying, is he failing at moving the country the other direction?

#40 TRJ

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

 

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there. I had the hardest time with my transition because I spent years listening to the vile comments coming out of some on the right and I thought to myself, "self.....why would you want to belong to that? They don't want you." Then I realized that the GOP was a lot larger than some websites chat room or ignorant base who claim to be Nazi's but yet still call themselves Americans. So I finally made the switch from DEM to GOP back in 2004? Bush vs Kerry. I get called all types of names by the other side now...mainly sell out or Uncle Tom but oh well. The GOP could have a way larger base if others felt they belonged. I must be honest that now I am embarrassed by many on the right as I am not a Trump guy. Keep the GOP in power but I am just not a fan of the current president who is not a true conservative IMO.


I'm not looking for a debate, but I'd pose this question to anyone on the right who still doesn't like him.

What tangible, "not conservative" thing has he done, what policy has he promoted, or what about the conservative ideology has he offended since he's been in office?

He's left social issues alone, he's promoted tax reform, worked on national security, and I think he's even got foreign relations moving in the right direction.

In other words, besides a personality that is, uh, kinda annoying, is he failing at moving the country the other direction?

 

Based upon the current partisanship in DC, he sat down with Schumer and Pilosi and had a meal and a chat.  That's unthinkable! Traitorous even...sitting with them and asking about what they want. 

 

Edit...was supposed to be purple but the formatting didn't stick.


Edited by TRJ, 07 December 2017 - 10:43 AM.


#41 mikew

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:41 PM

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there.

Or I could join a 3rd-party and throw my vote away...

 

I hear you, Brooks.



#42 Mick G

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:06 AM

 

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there.

Or I could join a 3rd-party and throw my vote away...

 

I hear you, Brooks.

 

 

You could also abstain because that's the same thing as throwing your vote away.

Just throwing that one out there.



#43 Smallbore

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:43 AM

I suspect these liberal gun groups are just a political sham.
They are like the politician that claims to support the 2A but votes for "sensible gun laws".
These liberal leftist gun groups want to attract and hold the "fence sitters" keeping them voting for anti 2A Dems.

Edited by Smallbore, 09 December 2017 - 07:45 AM.


#44 skinnyb82

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:15 AM

I suspect these liberal gun groups are just a political sham.
They are like the politician that claims to support the 2A but votes for "sensible gun laws".
These liberal leftist gun groups want to attract and hold the "fence sitters" keeping them voting for anti 2A Dems.

Ironically, they're sprouting up because they're terrified that Trump will do something to us that will necessitate armed resistance. Hrm....isn't that the purpose of the Second Amendment? Isn't that one of the reasons why conservatives, democrats (of the JFK variety, not the Obama variety) own guns for centuries? They're just now figuring that out? It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot, but we're not complacent regardless of who's in office because the government is the government.

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#45 OldMarineVet

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:22 AM

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there.

Or I could join a 3rd-party and throw my vote away...
 
I hear you, Brooks.

 
You could also abstain because that's the same thing as throwing your vote away.
Just throwing that one out there.

Agreed. I vote one way or the other, every time. That's my right as a citizen. A no-vote carries no weight.

Edited by OldMarineVet, 09 December 2017 - 08:46 AM.


#46 chicagoresident

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:33 AM

Nothing wrong with throwing a vote away if you don't agree with either candidate.

I will never vote for a politician that states guns should be taken away or heavily regulated on their campaign platform. Right or Left.

Write your candidates before and after the election that they lost your vote because of wanting to restrict guns.

Even Obama the first time around didn't touch guns because he was advised on the Republican revolution of 94 and the fallout of the assault weapon ban. But somehow senile Hillary has forgotten that. Even bumbling Bernie forgot when he actually had a decent NRA rating and used to receive campaign money from the NRA. I don't know where this new crop of democrats came from, but I'm glad to see them losing.

Edited by chicagoresident, 09 December 2017 - 10:34 AM.


#47 tbrooks

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:35 AM

 

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there. I had the hardest time with my transition because I spent years listening to the vile comments coming out of some on the right and I thought to myself, "self.....why would you want to belong to that? They don't want you." Then I realized that the GOP was a lot larger than some websites chat room or ignorant base who claim to be Nazi's but yet still call themselves Americans. So I finally made the switch from DEM to GOP back in 2004? Bush vs Kerry. I get called all types of names by the other side now...mainly sell out or Uncle Tom but oh well. The GOP could have a way larger base if others felt they belonged. I must be honest that now I am embarrassed by many on the right as I am not a Trump guy. Keep the GOP in power but I am just not a fan of the current president who is not a true conservative IMO.


I'm not looking for a debate, but I'd pose this question to anyone on the right who still doesn't like him.

What tangible, "not conservative" thing has he done, what policy has he promoted, or what about the conservative ideology has he offended since he's been in office?

He's left social issues alone, he's promoted tax reform, worked on national security, and I think he's even got foreign relations moving in the right direction.

In other words, besides a personality that is, uh, kinda annoying, is he failing at moving the country the other direction?

 

Let's see....I think he has championed some conservative initiatives because that's what he thinks he needs to do to get the votes. He may push a conservative agenda but doesn't really believe in it...his foreign policy is not in any way sound, he doesn't have the moral foundation many conservatives have, this tax bill? I just don't know.....I don't think he is completely on the side of 2A supporters, etc. Yeah he has pushed some conservative plans but do we really believe he is at heart? I just want an adult in the white house I can be proud of. So you have a point...to a point. For me it is a mix of personal dislike and lack of a strong conservative foundation that I see in him. But hey, I will deal with it so long as 2A issues get advanced.



#48 chicagoresident

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:11 AM

Trump's support for civil asset forfeiture and appointment of Jeff Sessions who also is a civil asset forfeiture fan really is the only thing that rubs me the wrong way. Giving local law enforcement/government incentive to sieze peoples money, property, and stuff without proof and sometimes without trial is a pretty big constitutional overstep. They haven't changed much yet, other then allowing local police and government to keep more of the proceeds, but it's a slippery slope we don't want to go down.

A path to naturalization was something the other Republicans supported and I agree with, but mine and their reasons are more pragmatic then constitutional so I guess I can let it slide. I just like that after most immigrants get their citizenship they tend to be right leaning and are more American then the multigenerational American left. Which is another reason the Republican party should go out of their way to include them in their base. I can't tell you how many non-native US citizens I've talked to that supported Trump, because they're all small business owners with conservative moral beliefs. If unions shift more to the right this will be a bigger issue, because despite what the left says they deport people like crazy to appease their union base. But right now it seems to be action on the left, but merely a talking point on the right.

#49 chicagoresident

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

The main reason many liberals (mainly black and brown) don't vote republican is that they don't feel welcomed. They don't feel like those who are in the party want them there. I had the hardest time with my transition because I spent years listening to the vile comments coming out of some on the right and I thought to myself, "self.....why would you want to belong to that? They don't want you." Then I realized that the GOP was a lot larger than some websites chat room or ignorant base who claim to be Nazi's but yet still call themselves Americans. So I finally made the switch from DEM to GOP back in 2004? Bush vs Kerry. I get called all types of names by the other side now...mainly sell out or Uncle Tom but oh well. The GOP could have a way larger base if others felt they belonged. I must be honest that now I am embarrassed by many on the right as I am not a Trump guy. Keep the GOP in power but I am just not a fan of the current president who is not a true conservative IMO.

I'm not looking for a debate, but I'd pose this question to anyone on the right who still doesn't like him.
What tangible, "not conservative" thing has he done, what policy has he promoted, or what about the conservative ideology has he offended since he's been in office?
He's left social issues alone, he's promoted tax reform, worked on national security, and I think he's even got foreign relations moving in the right direction.
In other words, besides a personality that is, uh, kinda annoying, is he failing at moving the country the other direction?
Let's see....I think he has championed some conservative initiatives because that's what he thinks he needs to do to get the votes. He may push a conservative agenda but doesn't really believe in it...his foreign policy is not in any way sound, he doesn't have the moral foundation many conservatives have, this tax bill? I just don't know.....I don't think he is completely on the side of 2A supporters, etc. Yeah he has pushed some conservative plans but do we really believe he is at heart? I just want an adult in the white house I can be proud of. So you have a point...to a point. For me it is a mix of personal dislike and lack of a strong conservative foundation that I see in him. But hey, I will deal with it so long as 2A issues get advanced.

Exaclty Trump really hasn't done much either way almost 1 year in to really judge him on, obviously his hands have been tied. People are just supporting him based on campaign promises (do those ever come true) and good feels based on his bluster and sticking it to the establishment. We need actual in place policy reform to really judge. Even Supreme Court picks have to be signed off on, so it's not like he's the sole decider of that either.

I'm withholding judgement until national reciprocity or the tax bill passes. It will show how well he makes deals to either the benefit or the hindrance to his base.

At the end of the day Trump's a New York Democrat turned conservative, 3 years will tell if he really transformed. His appointments say yes, for now. But he could easily say "see I appointed all these conservatives and they screwed it up, so now I'm surrounding myself with fellow NY democrats". Just like Clinton would have. Trump is very much a Circa mid aughts Hillary Clinton in most of his views and affiliations. We all saw where she ended up on her moral flexibility. Although, ironically Trump has supported the LGB community consistently over the years, much more then Hillary prior to this latest run. Progressive Liberals smoke too much dope to have any long term memory of the Clintons.

All you need to know about New York Democrats are in the history of Bloomberg and Giuliani's party affiliations and flips. And of course Hillary, a dixiecrat who carpet bagged as a New York Democrat, then was elevated as a progressive by those long term memory impaired progressive Liberals. I don't expect Trump to stay consistent on anything as he gets closer to reelection, hopefully he proves me wrong.

Edited by chicagoresident, 12 December 2017 - 11:41 AM.


#50 vito

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

There is nothing new with people who can support contradictory thoughts in their head at the same time. Pro 2nd Amendment voters who also are rabid environmental crazies, or who think that there is little of greater importance than the right to unrestricted abortions will vote Democrat and delude themselves that they are still pro-2A. The Democrat party today is the far Left. It advocates for the total elimination of the private ownership of firearms. Leaders of the party, from Hilary Clinton to Elizabeth Warren to Nancy Pelosi and many, many others have clearly stated that there most fervent wish is to repeal the 2nd Amendment. They openly praise the anti-gun policies, including registration followed by confiscation as done in the UK and Australia. They have repeatedly said that the NRA is the prime enemy. Not ISIS, not radical Islam, not the Russians, but the NRA. And yet fools who claim to value the 2nd Amendment as the guarantor of the rest of our Constitutional rights still vote Democrat. Add to this the millions of gun owners who are pretty apathetic about gun control and gun laws because, at least for now, they see no threat to their ownership of deer hunting rifles and bird hunting shotguns and that is why we can not afford to be less than vigilant in our fight for our basic gun rights. 

 

Thinking about this subject makes me think about Senator Kristen Gillebrand of NY. She was not well known in NYC when she was running for the U.S. Senate, and garnered a great deal of support from Upstate Republican New Yorkers in great part because of her stated firm support of the 2nd Amendment. The moment she won the election she started backtracking on her support, and has now emerged as a leading gun control supporter within the Democrat Party. I think of the fools who supported her thinking that she would be a voice for the 2nd Amendment within the Democrat Party, only to be faced with just another left wing Democrat once she got into office.  


Edited by vito, 16 December 2017 - 12:33 PM.

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#51 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:57 PM

 

Exaclty Trump really hasn't done much either way almost 1 year in to really judge him on, obviously his hands have been tied. People are just supporting him based on campaign promises (do those ever come true) and good feels based on his bluster and sticking it to the establishment. We need actual in place policy reform to really judge. Even Supreme Court picks have to be signed off on, so it's not like he's the sole decider of that either.

I'm withholding judgement until national reciprocity or the tax bill passes. It will show how well he makes deals to either the benefit or the hindrance to his base.

At the end of the day Trump's a New York Democrat turned conservative, 3 years will tell if he really transformed. His appointments say yes, for now. But he could easily say "see I appointed all these conservatives and they screwed it up, so now I'm surrounding myself with fellow NY democrats". Just like Clinton would have. Trump is very much a Circa mid aughts Hillary Clinton in most of his views and affiliations. We all saw where she ended up on her moral flexibility. Although, ironically Trump has supported the LGB community consistently over the years, much more then Hillary prior to this latest run. Progressive Liberals smoke too much dope to have any long term memory of the Clintons.

All you need to know about New York Democrats are in the history of Bloomberg and Giuliani's party affiliations and flips. And of course Hillary, a dixiecrat who carpet bagged as a New York Democrat, then was elevated as a progressive by those long term memory impaired progressive Liberals. I don't expect Trump to stay consistent on anything as he gets closer to reelection, hopefully he proves me wrong.

 

  President Donald Trump's Accomplishment List:


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#52 OldMarineVet

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:35 AM

 

 

Exaclty Trump really hasn't done much either way almost 1 year in to really judge him on, obviously his hands have been tied. People are just supporting him based on campaign promises (do those ever come true) and good feels based on his bluster and sticking it to the establishment. We need actual in place policy reform to really judge. Even Supreme Court picks have to be signed off on, so it's not like he's the sole decider of that either.

I'm withholding judgement until national reciprocity or the tax bill passes. It will show how well he makes deals to either the benefit or the hindrance to his base.

At the end of the day Trump's a New York Democrat turned conservative, 3 years will tell if he really transformed. His appointments say yes, for now. But he could easily say "see I appointed all these conservatives and they screwed it up, so now I'm surrounding myself with fellow NY democrats". Just like Clinton would have. Trump is very much a Circa mid aughts Hillary Clinton in most of his views and affiliations. We all saw where she ended up on her moral flexibility. Although, ironically Trump has supported the LGB community consistently over the years, much more then Hillary prior to this latest run. Progressive Liberals smoke too much dope to have any long term memory of the Clintons.

All you need to know about New York Democrats are in the history of Bloomberg and Giuliani's party affiliations and flips. And of course Hillary, a dixiecrat who carpet bagged as a New York Democrat, then was elevated as a progressive by those long term memory impaired progressive Liberals. I don't expect Trump to stay consistent on anything as he gets closer to reelection, hopefully he proves me wrong.

 

  President Donald Trump's Accomplishment List:

 

And nothing on the huge list is frivolous. Lots of "meat on those bones!"  It's a keeper. Thank you


Edited by OldMarineVet, 17 December 2017 - 09:40 AM.





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