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What do we have in the works for a cleanup bill for the next legislative session?

 

This seems like an obvious issue to include a correction for. Paper applications too.

My list of proposed changes would be pretty long.

I hear you...

Step 1 in my book is to get rid of that "substantially similar laws" portion. If I recall it is 430 ILCS 66/40 ( :cool: and the first few words of 430 ILCS 66/40 ©.

Starting with this. It's a fundamental right, has to be available to everyone in a non-discriminatory fashion, resident or non resident doesn't matter, and the same fee as well. Make the car carry provision non-discriminatory by simply allowing any non-Illinois carry permit to be acceptable for car carry.

 

Next I'd remove the parking lots and real property from all prohibited places to remove the ambiguity over shared parking lots and the "gotcha" for getting to a door and seeing a sign that you couldn't see from your car. Require all prohibited places to be posted. Add statutory protection against disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct for handing firearms inside a vehicle in order to comply with prohibited areas. And pedestrians for that matter.

 

Specify that possession of an FCCL fulfills the requirements of the FOID act but doesn't preclude a person from having both. Exempt FCCL holders from purchase waiting periods. Since FCCL's are going to be monitored continuously for disqualifiers, licensees should also be exempted from point of purchase background checks in accordance with BATF guidelines since they'll be superflous.

 

Then we can work on the plethora of prohibited places, most crucially in my opinion, mass transit, parks and playgrounds, and certain government buildings like state park and campgrounds facilities and interstate rest areas that are for public usage rather than government operations.

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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

 

We already have car carry under the FCCA just as you described.

 

I agree with the parking place suggestion.

 

All prohibited places are required to post as per the FCCA.

 

Under the FCCA your car is considered an extension of your home, so there will not be a disorderly charge for handling your firearm inside your car so long as you are not doing it in violation of some other law, such as brandishing as a form of intimidation.

 

My opinion is that FOID should be abolished. Regardless, FOID is a resident issue when it comes to waiting periods. As for purchasing firearms, nonresidents should be allowed to purchase long guns as per BATFE regulations.

 

I completely agree with your last paragraph. Any area this is common for the general public to access should be unrestricted. If public dollars are used to fund those locations/services firearms shall be allowed. There are some exemptions to this though, such as courthouses, Capitol buildings, etc.

 

Edited by domin8
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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

No state (other than Illinois) that I'm aware of that issues to non-residents charges a higher price for non-resident permits. If you have examples I'd be curious to know which ones.

 

"Most gun friendly states" aren't under court order to respect concealed carry as a fundamental constitutional right. The only other state I'm aware of that has a (state) court order to issue carry permits as a constitutional right is Indiana, they don't issue permits to non-residents but do recognize all other permits non-discriminately for non residents. Many of those "gun friendly" states have unregulated open carry as their accomodation of the civil right, with concealed carry treated as a priviledge.

Edited by Gamma
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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

No state (other than Illinois) that I'm aware of that issues to non-residents charges a higher price for non-resident permits. If you have examples I'd be curious to know which ones.

 

"Most gun friendly states" aren't under court order to respect concealed carry as a fundamental constitutional right. The only other state I'm aware of that has a (state) court order to issue carry permits as a constitutional right is Indiana, they don't issue permits to non-residents but do recognize all other permits non-discriminately for non residents. Many of those "gun friendly" states have unregulated open carry as their accomodation of the civil right, with concealed carry treated as a priviledge.

 

It is an absolute certainty that the "substantially similar" provision will be challenged along with the underlying UUW statute if this policy continues. The only question is who will sponsor it (or possibly multiple suits), and what plaintiffs will be selected.

Edited by Gray Peterson
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Since Myself and many others from out of state are now approved instructors the substantially similar wording has to be on the way out I would think. How else would I be approved?

 

It would take an act of the legislature to remove that wording. Either that phrase is being interpreted very liberally or the requirement to have an IL CCL to teach is being removed. The latter requirement, I am told (via another thread), was published in the ISP's proposed administrative rules which haven't yet been adopted.

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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

No state (other than Illinois) that I'm aware of that issues to non-residents charges a higher price for non-resident permits. If you have examples I'd be curious to know which ones.

What about Utah, Florida, and Virginia? I know for a fact that Virginia's concealed carry permit prices are $50 for residents and $100 for nonresidents.

 

Edited by domin8
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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

No state (other than Illinois) that I'm aware of that issues to non-residents charges a higher price for non-resident permits. If you have examples I'd be curious to know which ones.

 

"Most gun friendly states" aren't under court order to respect concealed carry as a fundamental constitutional right. The only other state I'm aware of that has a (state) court order to issue carry permits as a constitutional right is Indiana, they don't issue permits to non-residents but do recognize all other permits non-discriminately for non residents. Many of those "gun friendly" states have unregulated open carry as their accomodation of the civil right, with concealed carry treated as a priviledge.

 

It is an absolute certainty that the "substantially similar" provision will be challenged along with the underlying UUW statute if this policy continues. The only question is who will sponsor it (or possibly multiple suits), and what plaintiffs will be selected.

Based on what I've seen, my faith in the ISRA picking up on this one is very shaky. Just look at the filings in Friedman v Highland Park. It's all about resident this and ISRA member that. Not a single word about the impacts on the 200+ active duty military families living in Highland Park. The ISRA knows this is an issue that affects because I was very vocal about it.

 

Imo, it may take a nonresident to file their own complaint with the courts before any organization such as the NRA, NAGR, USCCA, or ACU, etc pays attention.

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Since Myself and many others from out of state are now approved instructors the substantially similar wording has to be on the way out I would think. How else would I be approved?
I've heard you might have a problem since instructors are required to also have a FCCL. No FCCL means no instructor status. What is your take on this?
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Since Myself and many others from out of state are now approved instructors the substantially similar wording has to be on the way out I would think. How else would I be approved?

 

It would take an act of the legislature to remove that wording. Either that phrase is being interpreted very liberally or the requirement to have an IL CCL to teach is being removed. The latter requirement, I am told (via another thread), was published in the ISP's proposed administrative rules which haven't yet been adopted.

An act of the legislature, via SAF, or a lawsuit. I believe SAF is attempting a cleanup bill to include the removal of 430 ILCS 66/40 (B), and renumbering everything that follows. That's actually really easy to do.
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Since Myself and many others from out of state are now approved instructors the substantially similar wording has to be on the way out I would think. How else would I be approved?
I've heard you might have a problem since instructors are required to also have a FCCL. No FCCL means no instructor status. What is your take on this?

I know the requirement to have an fccl has been discussed but I went through the act again and I can't find anything that says that. I thought also that it was going to be removed in the final rules. I can't comprehend the ISP approving us to be instructors and then saying you can't teach because you don't have an fccl. At one time the substantially similar wording was supposedly what was stopping them from approving us as instructors but somehow that has changed without any change in the act.
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You're not going to get same fee for nonresidents. Most gun friendly states also charge higher fees for nonresidents.

No state (other than Illinois) that I'm aware of that issues to non-residents charges a higher price for non-resident permits. If you have examples I'd be curious to know which ones.

What about Utah, Florida, and Virginia? I know for a fact that Virginia's concealed carry permit prices are $50 for residents and $100 for nonresidents.

Utah it's $5 difference in the background check fee. Florida is the same price, although they charge for license and background check separately so you might get a different price for fingerprints at a local agency in FL than what they charge for paper card submmission by mail. I hadn't looked at Virginia in detail but just read through their stuff and see where they charge a different price, non-resident permits are issued by a different agency in VA. Again though, unregulated open carry is available in VA. AZ, PA, and MN appear to be the same fee.

 

But just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean it's right, or Constitutional. Try charging a special extra fee on non-residents for a 1st amendment public demonstration permit, or a non-resident abortion tax and see how long that would last in court. If you believe carry and self defense are civil rights then demand they be respected as civil rights.

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I'm nor arguing the ethics, just the flaw that was stated.

 

Yes, in Virginia they're is a different agency issuing nonresident permits. It's actually very simply broken down. Residents obtain permits from the police department in the municipality they reside. Nonresidents are issued permits from the state police. Regardless, they have to follow the same rules, charge the same fees that are related by state statute, and have the same looking cards (which are really just a business card shaped paper with some printing on it, have a passport photo attached, then gets laminated). I'm very familiar with the Virginia process because I have a Virginia nonresident permit, along with Florida nonresident and Utah resident.

 

heck, I wish HB 2959 would become federal law. It would simplify everything for nonresidents.

 

Edited by domin8
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I'm just glad I didn't spend the money for fingerprints. :)

You just had to rub it in, didn't you? :)

 

I thought about waiting but assumed all would be well in the world...

 

Oops, sorry! :blush:

 

I actually went to the fingerprint place a few weeks ago, but the lady there was the most unprofessional person I've ever seen. Approximately 20 people waiting in line, and she was moaning and complaining about the weather, running out of ink so nobody could get a receipt, et al.. Hence, after waiting for 30 minutes and her only getting 1 person printed, I left.

 

Then I had an opportunity to go last week to the place I took my Illinois class, and I changed my mind the morning of. I decided I could wait another 30 days. :)

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