508 replies to this topic

[Kaeghl]

junglebob, on May 25 2008, 09:26 PM, said:

polhms1, on May 25 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

junglebob, on May 25 2008, 08:26 PM, said:

Here is something used by Second Amendment Sisters, I believe.  Armed Citizens Prevented 6850 Violent Crimes Today.  Maybe a little hard to get on a small button though.  They had it on signs I believe.

We would need to find where the stat came from. Unlike the anti's we back up every statistic with an FBI report or somthing comparable.

Good idea, I'll see if I can find where the statistic came from.  My guess is it may include armed citizens protecting their homes as well as those carrying outside their home.

What was that organization, Pro-rights group or even a gov't agency, that estimated somewhere around 2,000,000 crimes a year are prevented/stopped by armed citizens? Could that be the source of that 6850/day?

365x6850=2,500250

I thought the number was upwards of 'only' 2,000,000.  Inflation, perhaps?

[Kaeghl]

Looks like the Rockford Register Star (Rockford RED STAR, to name it properly) is starting it's expected slow glacier move to sway the sheep in the area. First their tame 'independant' columnist Chuck Sweeney stated that it 'might' be workable, but doubted it was proper, then started dropping in LTE's and guest columnist rations of crap to downplay the improtance and benefits of CCW.

First the LTE, with the direct link to their archives

http://www.rrstar.co...mature-for-guns

RRSTAR.COM
Posted May 25, 2008 @ 03:24 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a community, our infatuation with arming citizens with new gun laws is ridiculous.

When my wife and I go out, our family is nearly run over with every Danica Patrick wannabe there is. Construction traffic takes normally law-abiding citizens and turns them into vigilantes.

If a Rockford resident is offended by the way you are driving, then he or she will reprimand you in some form or fashion, right there and now.

Just ask our visitors. Most people outside of Rockford state that our community is rude and has a flat-out bad disposition.

There is good in our community, but we do not have the day-in, day-out maturity to arm our community.

I do not want to feel insecure, nor do I want an act of violence to occur toward my family without a way to defend myself.

However, I do not want to be shot at some dark evening because I accidentally cut someone off on the road or looked at someone wrong.

It will happen. We just do not have the temperament to allow a law like this to be passed.

Those guns eventually will find their way into the hands of our children, no matter what parents do at home to secure them. Maturity is the key to success and we do not have it.

— Mark Kiltz, Rockford


Ohmigosh, I didn't know I was a potential maniac because I believe in the Second Amendment and want the ability to protect myself and my family from criminals without any so-called 'legal' impediments. According to this person, I'm a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal and would howl in outrage and start shooting anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat, if I had a gu-gu-gu-guuuuunnnnn Wahhhh!

This next one is from a member Register Star Voter Panel, printed in the Sunday Paper Opinions section.

http://www.rrstar.co...arry-law-change


By John D. Gustafson
SPECIAL TO THE REGISTER STAR
Posted May 24, 2008 @ 01:27 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One would assume that government exists to seek solutions and enact programs to end the many problems facing society.

The Winnebago County Board has divorced itself from such goals as it pursues a resolution allowing the carrying of concealed weapons within the county confines.

The new midnight cowboys of the County Board, possibly visualizing themselves as modern-day Wyatt Earps, are seeking to pour fuel on a fire that will profoundly accentuate the problem of gun violence in our society.

Their proposal is not a rational solution to our ever-growing societal gun violence. It is a retreat and abrogation of their governing responsibility to enact legislation and programs that will effectively curb the misuse of legally and illegally owned handguns.
The current laws regulating firearms are not working. The educational programs regarding gun safety and correct usage have been failures.

Some County Board members feel that to correct these issues is to allow the carrying of concealed weapons. And they have the audacity to use the Second Amendment as reasoning.

It would seem more responsible for our government officials to end the unworkable laws and programs regarding gun licensing and usage and design new ones to help curb gun violence.

Local, state and national authorities must cease their pandering to the whims and whines of the NRA and other gun groups. Such organizations are only silent during the days after school massacres and drive-by shootings. Their outrage is only directed to those who are saying, “Enough is enough!”

If the board members really believe that proposal is sane and justified, then it should include the requirement that the person allowed to carry a concealed weapon has his or her driver’s license stamped.

A police officer should be warned, as should any person looking at a license for identification. How about a state-sponsored Web site listing the names of residents carrying a concealed weapon?

Wouldn’t anyone want this information?

It might do well for the Saturday morning cowboy wannabes to sit down and admit that concealed weapons are not an answer to gun violence in our society.

The proposal is only an admission that the Winnebago County Board doesn’t have the time nor intelligence to effectively deal with the growing number of needless handgun deaths in our society.

John D. Gustafson of Rockford is a member of the Register Star Voters Panel.

********************************************************************************
****************

I do believe it would be entertaining to disect these mental midgets phrase by phrase and fire off a missive to the paper, not that the Red Star would print it. Perhaps if we snowed them under with an avalanche of the truth.

Comments?

[TTIN]

Kaeghl, on May 26 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

Looks like the Rockford Register Star (Rockford RED STAR, to name it properly) is starting it's expected slow glacier move to sway the sheep in the area. First their tame 'independant' columnist Chuck Sweeney stated that it 'might' be workable, but doubted it was proper, then started dropping in LTE's and guest columnist rations of crap to downplay the improtance and benefits of CCW.

First the LTE, with the direct link to their archives

http://www.rrstar.co...mature-for-guns

RRSTAR.COM
Posted May 25, 2008 @ 03:24 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a community, our infatuation with arming citizens with new gun laws is ridiculous.

When my wife and I go out, our family is nearly run over with every Danica Patrick wannabe there is. Construction traffic takes normally law-abiding citizens and turns them into vigilantes.

If a Rockford resident is offended by the way you are driving, then he or she will reprimand you in some form or fashion, right there and now.

Just ask our visitors. Most people outside of Rockford state that our community is rude and has a flat-out bad disposition.

There is good in our community, but we do not have the day-in, day-out maturity to arm our community.

I do not want to feel insecure, nor do I want an act of violence to occur toward my family without a way to defend myself.

However, I do not want to be shot at some dark evening because I accidentally cut someone off on the road or looked at someone wrong.

It will happen. We just do not have the temperament to allow a law like this to be passed.

Those guns eventually will find their way into the hands of our children, no matter what parents do at home to secure them. Maturity is the key to success and we do not have it.

— Mark Kiltz, Rockford


Ohmigosh, I didn't know I was a potential maniac because I believe in the Second Amendment and want the ability to protect myself and my family from criminals without any so-called 'legal' impediments. According to this person, I'm a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal and would howl in outrage and start shooting anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat, if I had a gu-gu-gu-guuuuunnnnn Wahhhh!

This next one is from a member Register Star Voter Panel, printed in the Sunday Paper Opinions section.

http://www.rrstar.co...arry-law-change


By John D. Gustafson
SPECIAL TO THE REGISTER STAR
Posted May 24, 2008 @ 01:27 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One would assume that government exists to seek solutions and enact programs to end the many problems facing society.

The Winnebago County Board has divorced itself from such goals as it pursues a resolution allowing the carrying of concealed weapons within the county confines.

The new midnight cowboys of the County Board, possibly visualizing themselves as modern-day Wyatt Earps, are seeking to pour fuel on a fire that will profoundly accentuate the problem of gun violence in our society.

Their proposal is not a rational solution to our ever-growing societal gun violence. It is a retreat and abrogation of their governing responsibility to enact legislation and programs that will effectively curb the misuse of legally and illegally owned handguns.
The current laws regulating firearms are not working. The educational programs regarding gun safety and correct usage have been failures.

Some County Board members feel that to correct these issues is to allow the carrying of concealed weapons. And they have the audacity to use the Second Amendment as reasoning.

It would seem more responsible for our government officials to end the unworkable laws and programs regarding gun licensing and usage and design new ones to help curb gun violence.

Local, state and national authorities must cease their pandering to the whims and whines of the NRA and other gun groups. Such organizations are only silent during the days after school massacres and drive-by shootings. Their outrage is only directed to those who are saying, “Enough is enough!”

If the board members really believe that proposal is sane and justified, then it should include the requirement that the person allowed to carry a concealed weapon has his or her driver’s license stamped.

A police officer should be warned, as should any person looking at a license for identification. How about a state-sponsored Web site listing the names of residents carrying a concealed weapon?

Wouldn’t anyone want this information?

It might do well for the Saturday morning cowboy wannabes to sit down and admit that concealed weapons are not an answer to gun violence in our society.

The proposal is only an admission that the Winnebago County Board doesn’t have the time nor intelligence to effectively deal with the growing number of needless handgun deaths in our society.

John D. Gustafson of Rockford is a member of the Register Star Voters Panel.

********************************************************************************
****************

I do believe it would be entertaining to disect these mental midgets phrase by phrase and fire off a missive to the paper, not that the Red Star would print it. Perhaps if we snowed them under with an avalanche of the truth.

Comments?

Has this clown not heard of a fire break? That's where you fight fire with fire.

[Kenny]

OK I think the time is right to take Valinda's video & shrink it down about 15 seconds & add an Illinoiscarry.com logo to the end for 5 seconds & raise money to run a TV commercial on WIFR. I know someone there in the ad dept, I will get with her but I need someone to take Valinda's video & modify it to fit in a 60 second spot with the Illinoiscarry.com logo at the end. I think I can raise alot of money to pay for it. What do you think?

[TTIN]

polhms1, on May 26 2008, 11:37 AM, said:

OK I think the time is right to take Valinda's video & shrink it down about 15 seconds & add an Illinoiscarry.com logo to the end for 5 seconds & raise money to run a TV commercial on WIFR. I know someone there in the ad dept, I will get with her but I need someone to take Valinda's video & modify it to fit in a 60 second spot with the Illinoiscarry.com logo at the end. I think I can raise alot of money to pay for it. What do you think?

I say give it a go..anything to get our message out in a positive way.I might be able to shrink it down,but not sure how to add the logo.I say this because there are a lot more able people on here when it comes to computer programing,but if no one volunters,I'd try to help.

[GarandFan]

You all knew there would be dissent and detraction.  That is the opportunity to educate.  But.....you must take the high road.  Do not fall into the ad hominem trap.  Assume that those writers truly believe what they say, and that they are truly open-minded.  Just give them the straight-forward facts and patterns and do not belittle them because they are uninformed on the subject, or worse, biased.

Be kind, professional, and straight-forward.

Yes...either of those letters would be very, very easy to rebut with facts and patterns regarding right to carry.

Good job.  The people are ready for this discussion.

Post drafts of letters here before mailing (if you want some input).

[Board9]

thetimeisnow, on May 26 2008, 11:20 AM, said:

Kaeghl, on May 26 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

Looks like the Rockford Register Star (Rockford RED STAR, to name it properly) is starting it's expected slow glacier move to sway the sheep in the area. First their tame 'independant' columnist Chuck Sweeney stated that it 'might' be workable, but doubted it was proper, then started dropping in LTE's and guest columnist rations of crap to downplay the improtance and benefits of CCW.

First the LTE, with the direct link to their archives

http://www.rrstar.co...mature-for-guns

RRSTAR.COM
Posted May 25, 2008 @ 03:24 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a community, our infatuation with arming citizens with new gun laws is ridiculous.

When my wife and I go out, our family is nearly run over with every Danica Patrick wannabe there is. Construction traffic takes normally law-abiding citizens and turns them into vigilantes.

If a Rockford resident is offended by the way you are driving, then he or she will reprimand you in some form or fashion, right there and now.

Just ask our visitors. Most people outside of Rockford state that our community is rude and has a flat-out bad disposition.

There is good in our community, but we do not have the day-in, day-out maturity to arm our community.

I do not want to feel insecure, nor do I want an act of violence to occur toward my family without a way to defend myself.

However, I do not want to be shot at some dark evening because I accidentally cut someone off on the road or looked at someone wrong.

It will happen. We just do not have the temperament to allow a law like this to be passed.

Those guns eventually will find their way into the hands of our children, no matter what parents do at home to secure them. Maturity is the key to success and we do not have it.

— Mark Kiltz, Rockford


Ohmigosh, I didn't know I was a potential maniac because I believe in the Second Amendment and want the ability to protect myself and my family from criminals without any so-called 'legal' impediments. According to this person, I'm a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal and would howl in outrage and start shooting anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat, if I had a gu-gu-gu-guuuuunnnnn Wahhhh!

This next one is from a member Register Star Voter Panel, printed in the Sunday Paper Opinions section.

http://www.rrstar.co...arry-law-change


By John D. Gustafson
SPECIAL TO THE REGISTER STAR
Posted May 24, 2008 @ 01:27 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One would assume that government exists to seek solutions and enact programs to end the many problems facing society.

The Winnebago County Board has divorced itself from such goals as it pursues a resolution allowing the carrying of concealed weapons within the county confines.

The new midnight cowboys of the County Board, possibly visualizing themselves as modern-day Wyatt Earps, are seeking to pour fuel on a fire that will profoundly accentuate the problem of gun violence in our society.

Their proposal is not a rational solution to our ever-growing societal gun violence. It is a retreat and abrogation of their governing responsibility to enact legislation and programs that will effectively curb the misuse of legally and illegally owned handguns.
The current laws regulating firearms are not working. The educational programs regarding gun safety and correct usage have been failures.

Some County Board members feel that to correct these issues is to allow the carrying of concealed weapons. And they have the audacity to use the Second Amendment as reasoning.

It would seem more responsible for our government officials to end the unworkable laws and programs regarding gun licensing and usage and design new ones to help curb gun violence.

Local, state and national authorities must cease their pandering to the whims and whines of the NRA and other gun groups. Such organizations are only silent during the days after school massacres and drive-by shootings. Their outrage is only directed to those who are saying, “Enough is enough!”

If the board members really believe that proposal is sane and justified, then it should include the requirement that the person allowed to carry a concealed weapon has his or her driver’s license stamped.

A police officer should be warned, as should any person looking at a license for identification. How about a state-sponsored Web site listing the names of residents carrying a concealed weapon?

Wouldn’t anyone want this information?

It might do well for the Saturday morning cowboy wannabes to sit down and admit that concealed weapons are not an answer to gun violence in our society.

The proposal is only an admission that the Winnebago County Board doesn’t have the time nor intelligence to effectively deal with the growing number of needless handgun deaths in our society.

John D. Gustafson of Rockford is a member of the Register Star Voters Panel.

********************************************************************************
****************

I do believe it would be entertaining to disect these mental midgets phrase by phrase and fire off a missive to the paper, not that the Red Star would print it. Perhaps if we snowed them under with an avalanche of the truth.

Comments?

What everyone needs to do is be calm and allow us the opportunity to hold the public hearings and then bring the issue to the floor for a vote. Then we can see who the sheep are and who are supporters of the United States Constitution and the 2nd amendment. I already know where I stand and that my vote will be in favor of the resolution. It is an issue that will grow county by county. Once a majority of the counties show their hands, the state will have to act.

Has this clown not heard of a fire break? That's where you fight fire with fire.

[Blacksmith58]

And these people vote! We have got to find a way to overcome this Oprah Mentality!

I still find it Ironic that if I'm from another state with a CWP and am traveling through Illinois, that some how as I passed over the State line, entering this state, I became a criminal. Is this state so advanced or backwards to the rest of the US.

I played around withthe badge idea and cleaned up an idea! It's clean, professional, stresses personal protection, safety and security.

[GWBH]

Blacksmith - it woud be backwards from the rest of the US.

[Blaster]

Just my .02 but the Pro-Choice makes me think of  a whole different issue.

[45superman]

Blaster, on May 26 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

Just my .02 but the Pro-Choice makes me think of  a whole different issue.

Yeah--I understand the point that's being made with the Pro-Choice reference, but I don't know if people who have never given any thought to the issue of concealed carry will.

This is probably too long, but maybe something along these lines:

Quote

Support women's right to choose . . .
to NOT be defenseless

[GarandFan]

Remember the KISS principle..... "keep it simple".....

Something as simple as "I support Right to Carry" would suffice.  The fact that the buttons will be visible and identify those on our side of the issue is the main thing.

[RacerDave6]

Blaster, on May 26 2008, 05:21 PM, said:

Just my .02 but the Pro-Choice makes me think of  a whole different issue.

Different, but the same. I have used this exact issue with my Senator as she ran on a platform of pro choice. I keep hammering her about our right to 'choose' to defend ourselves. The right to choose is not limited to a single topic, just associated with one right now. We can change that too.

[Buzzard]

GarandFan, on May 26 2008, 05:35 PM, said:

Remember the KISS principle..... "keep it simple".....

Something as simple as "I support Right to Carry" would suffice.  The fact that the buttons will be visible and identify those on our side of the issue is the main thing.

"I Support Concealed Carry"

[Blacksmith58]

I want to say that I believe we all are passionate about our guns and the right to keep them. This is granted to us by the constitution. What we are dealing with here is a mindset of the likes of Pearl and those two nitwits that wrote for the Rockford Red Star. They are already calling us Wyatt Earp and saying that we don't have the temperment to be able to control ourselves and our guns.

These are the mental midgits that we face as obsticals on this path. We can resite the 2nd Ammendment and our rights all day long like we have been for the passed 20 years and look where we are today. What we need is a new strategy to educate and persuade the opposition to our side. I’m not suggesting that we give in or compromise our position, just change a tactics to reach the fence sitters. This is why I keep stressing Personal & Family Protection, Safety and Security.

The use of Pro-Choice is really applicable in this case because the State of Illinois gives us NO CHOICE for personal protection other than what God gave us. Besides, the words "Pro-Choice" are not patented and we can educate folks to our cause with it simply because it drawls attention because of the implied misuse. The web site address on the bottom of the button could direct folks to the website for detailed information for concealed carry. We all know that an armed society is a polite society. The facts support this.

I just think we need to be smarter than our opponents and keep this battle/campaign professional, tactful, factual and not personal. What ever the buttons say, we should be unified in their display.

[Board9]

Here is the saying I will be using on the button I will wear at the board meetings:

CAP
Conceal And Protect

[speedracer815]

GarandFan, on May 26 2008, 12:26 PM, said:

You all knew there would be dissent and detraction.  That is the opportunity to educate.  But.....you must take the high road.  Do not fall into the ad hominem trap.  Assume that those writers truly believe what they say, and that they are truly open-minded.  Just give them the straight-forward facts and patterns and do not belittle them because they are uninformed on the subject, or worse, biased.

Be kind, professional, and straight-forward.

Well said, GarandFan!

I don't like "Pro-Choice" simply because it would confuse our issue with another. I don't like guns on the buttons because the issue really isn't about guns, they are just a tool. To win the hearts and minds of people like Pearl requires us to talk about safety, security and saving victim's lives. As someone who has won over a few "anti's" recently I can tell you that the trick is to be calm and reasonable while you gently give them FACTS that will make them THINK for themselves. You won't ever change their minds by arguing, but given the right information they will change their own minds once they have a little time to think about it.

As for Valinda's video, please make sure you have written permission before editing it and using it. Especially make sure you have permission to put our tag on the end of it. I know Valinda is for our cause, but this can be a sensitive issue.

[cherryriver]

One of my preferred pivot points is "restore".  We want to restore gun rights, which were taken four decades ago.
The restoration of gun rights is the goal.
Bill

[Buzzard]

Board9, on May 27 2008, 08:11 AM, said:

Here is the saying I will be using on the button I will wear at the board meetings:

CAP
Conceal And Protect

I like that, Nine! Let's face it...there is little chance of coming up with one button that says it all and explains everything. We can't put a fifty word essay on a button, and we shouldn't try anyway. As Garand pointed out keep it simple and if you can make it catchy at the same time, great!

I like your idea because you know you have a specific task, which is to convince dissenting board members that concealed carry reduces crime. Experience teaches us that some specific tasks can be accomplished more easily by using specialized tools. You have come up with a very simple message that quickly explains one benefit of concealed carry.

[junglebob]

How about Self Defense  A Human Right.    Making concealed carry a human rights issue makes it harder for the antis to argue against.    If pro abortion activists can say abortion is a right,  I think we have much better support for the bearing of arms as being part of the basic human right of self defense.

If someone says there is no right to self defense they could be asked   "So if you were attacked you would never defend yourself?"

[Kenny]

I just got back from the sub-committee meeting in Winnebago county. The next sub-committee meeting will be June 10th at 5:30 at memorial hall (211 N. Main St. Rockford, IL 61101) They are going to open up to discussion for a 1/2 hour after every meeting. (which will be every other Tuesday at 5:30 at Memorial hall) I need people to get to these meetings I will be at every one of them but if the anti's start showing up we need to out number them. All the news stations were there tonight again, and they will be at every meeting from here on out. The board thinks this is going to take a month or mabye 2 months. They don't want to rush it but want to move it along. I realize not everyone can make every meeting but I would hope for some people to come to at least a few. If you want to ride with me I am fine with that my house is pretty easy to get to from I-90. Jim Webster was assigned to gather national info on concealed carry (statistics and crime info) and John Sweeny was assigned to gather statewide info. I told Jim Webster about this site & told him his work was done after coming here for 15 minutes. If you are a good public speaker please come to one of these meetings. They have not set a date for an all out public forum but may not need it if we can get enough people to these sub-committee meetings. I handed out a few buttons to board members and they asked if they could have a couple more so I gave them more. They really liked the "48 states why not here" and "Lower crime rates vote yes for concealed carry" so I am going to make more of those two buttons. I will hand them out at all the sub-committee meetings. WIFR zoomed in on my button again tonight we will see if it makes it on the news. If anyone has any ???  post here or PM me or call me B-4 9:30 PM 815-703-1974

Oh yea I want to thank everyone who has sent me money for the button maker, It will be well worth the money spent, and when we get CC in Winnebago county we can pass them on to other counties because they are not county specific.

I am working on some TV ad space and Newspaper ad space I will keep you posted on that too.

I was told by three different board members we need to flood the Rockford Register Star with letters to the editor because there has been 1 pro CC letter and 2 anti CC letters printed. As you can see I am no creative writer but I would not hesitate to put my name on someone elses work, so if you are good at writing but would rather stay anonomous (see) feel free to send it to me  My E-mail

We can win this one we already have enough votes on the county board but we want to hit a home run since this is the first county to do this.

[cberan]

polhms1, on May 27 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

I just got back from the sub-committee meeting in Winnebago county. The next sub-committee meeting will be June 10th at 5:30 at memorial hall (211 N. Main St. Rockford, IL 61101) They are going to open up to discussion for a 1/2 hour after every meeting. (which will be every other Tuesday at 5:30 at Memorial hall) I need people to get to these meetings I will be at every one of them but if the anti's start showing up we need to out number them. All the news stations were there tonight again, and they will be at every meeting from here on out. The board thinks this is going to take a month or mabye 2 months. They don't want to rush it but want to move it along. I realize not everyone can make every meeting but I would hope for some people to come to at least a few. If you want to ride with me I am fine with that my house is pretty easy to get to from I-90. Jim Webster was assigned to gather national info on concealed carry (statistics and crime info) and John Sweeny was assigned to gather statewide info. I told Jim Webster about this site & told him his work was done after coming here for 15 minutes. If you are a good public speaker please come to one of these meetings. They have not set a date for an all out public forum but may not need it if we can get enough people to these sub-committee meetings. I handed out a few buttons to board members and they asked if they could have a couple more so I gave them more. They really liked the "48 states why not here" and "Lower crime rates vote yes for concealed carry" so I am going to make more of those two buttons. I will hand them out at all the sub-committee meetings. WIFR zoomed in on my button again tonight we will see if it makes it on the news. If anyone has any ???  post here or PM me or call me B-4 9:30 PM 815-703-1974

Oh yea I want to thank everyone who has sent me money for the button maker, It will be well worth the money spent, and when we get CC in Winnebago county we can pass them on to other counties because they are not county specific.

I am working on some TV ad space and Newspaper ad space I will keep you posted on that too.

I was told by three different board members we need to flood the Rockford Register Star with letters to the editor because there has been 1 pro CC letter and 2 anti CC letters printed. As you can see I am no creative writer but I would not hesitate to put my name on someone elses work, so if you are good at writing but would rather stay anonomous (see) feel free to send it to me  My E-mail

We can win this one we already have enough votes on the county board but we want to hit a home run since this is the first county to do this.

Kenny, would it be a good idea to send that article that Massad wrote to the RRS?  That really breaks it down on why people carry.  Did you read it yet?

[Kenny]

I think I read part of it but any pro CC LTE is what we need. Articles would be good to send in but letters to the editor from local regular people is what we want. I think but like I said I am new to the writing letters thing but I am going to write one tomorrow. I will have to make sure to use spell check so I don't look so dumb.

[junglebob]

[quote name='Kaeghl' post='91094' date='May 26 2008, 10:09 AM'][quote name='junglebob' post='91068' date='May 25 2008, 09:26 PM'][quote name='polhms1' post='91054' date='May 25 2008, 08:37 PM'][quote name='junglebob' post='91052' date='May 25 2008, 08:26 PM']Here is something used by Second Amendment Sisters, I believe.  Armed Citizens Prevented 6850 Violent Crimes Today.  Maybe a little hard to get on a small button though.  They had it on signs I believe.[/quote]

We would need to find where the stat came from. Unlike the anti's we back up every statistic with an FBI report or somthing comparable.
[/quote]
Good idea, I'll see if I can find where the statistic came from.  My guess is it may include armed citizens protecting their homes as well as those carrying outside their home.
[/quote]

What was that organization, Pro-rights group or even a gov't agency, that estimated somewhere around 2,000,000 crimes a year are prevented/stopped by armed citizens? Could that be the source of that 6850/day?

365x6850=2,500250

I thought the number was upwards of 'only' 2,000,000.  Inflation, perhaps?
[/quote]

I think the 2.5 million a year figure (6850 per day) comes from the National Self Defense Survery done in 1995 by Gary Kleck.  If you google seach Guns and Self Defense Gary Kleck and go to the 3rd entry you'll get information about the survery.

[Kaeghl]

The paper has had my pared down LTE for two weeks now, and it still hasn't been published. I believe I will give them a call tomorrow to 'ask when it will be in the paper'.

I still need that address, polhms, for the $$ I said I'd kick in.

[Buzzard]

We really should make the effort to voice our support with letters to the Rockford Register Star. Especially you Winnebago folks! This is the only way we will have any idea if the paper is publishing the PRO concealed carry letters. If you have sent a letter and it hasn't been published, be sure to post it here or let someone attending the committee meetings know. That way we can rebuff any claims of no PRO letters getting printed. Let's show our support!!

[junglebob]

I just got a new copy of Concealeld Carry Magazine, published by the United States Concealed Carry Association.  It has an article in it Concealed Carry Saves Lives.  It mentions the 2.5 million annual figure for crimes detered and cites the Gary Kleck survey.  Interestingly it says that in less than .2% of the cases was the criminal killed.

Inn Orlando Florida the police responed to a rape epidemic by embarking on a highly publicized program to train 2,500 women in firearm use.  The next year rape fell by 88% and burglary by 25%.  Better still, not one of the 2500 women actually fired her weapon.  The deterrent effect was enough. (No "Wild West" there)

The Florida Department of State "Concealed Weapons Statistiacal Report" for 10/1/1987 through 8/31/1998, a period of more than ten years, indicates that 490,612 concealed-weapons licenses were issued by the state of Florida - less than 3% of those eligible.  Of those 490,612 licenses, only 93 - a statistically nonexistent 19/100 of one percent - were revolked because a firearm was used improperly.   The majority of these "crimes" were an otherwise lawful concealed carry permit holder walking into a "no guns enclave", such as a federal building.  At the same time Florida's firarm homicide rate went down 37% and handgun homicde went down 41%, while similar crime rates went up 15% and 24% in other states.

Hope this is useful for someones letter writing.  I am know there were "Wild West Warnings" in Florida before they got concealed carry, there always are in every state that gets it.

I just edited my post the article said 19/1000 of one percent of licenses revolked, my math says 19/100 of 490,612 is 93, go ahead and recheck my math.

[GarandFan]

That's great information, Junglebob!

[45superman]

junglebob, on May 28 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

It mentions the 2.5 million annual figure for crimes detered and cites the Gary Kleck survey.  Interestingly it says that in less than .2% of the cases was the criminal killed.

If the 2.5 million figure is accurate, than the number of perpetrators killed would have to be well under .2%, because .2% of 2.5 million is 5000.  That's something like 25 times the average annual number of justified homicides, I think.

As pointed out before, though, killing isn't the motivation behind carrying a defensive firearm, the other side's histrionics about "bloodthirsty gunslingers" notwithstanding.

[flagtag]

Blacksmith58, on May 26 2008, 11:39 PM, said:

I want to say that I believe we all are passionate about our guns and the right to keep them. This is granted to us by the constitution. What we are dealing with here is a mindset of the likes of Pearl and those two nitwits that wrote for the Rockford Red Star. They are already calling us Wyatt Earp and saying that we don't have the temperment to be able to control ourselves and our guns.

These are the mental midgits that we face as obsticals on this path. We can resite the 2nd Ammendment and our rights all day long like we have been for the passed 20 years and look where we are today. What we need is a new strategy to educate and persuade the opposition to our side. I’m not suggesting that we give in or compromise our position, just change a tactics to reach the fence sitters. This is why I keep stressing Personal & Family Protection, Safety and Security.

The use of Pro-Choice is really applicable in this case because the State of Illinois gives us NO CHOICE for personal protection other than what God gave us. Besides, the words "Pro-Choice" are not patented and we can educate folks to our cause with it simply because it drawls attention because of the implied misuse. The web site address on the bottom of the button could direct folks to the website for detailed information for concealed carry. We all know that an armed society is a polite society. The facts support this.

I just think we need to be smarter than our opponents and keep this battle/campaign professional, tactful, factual and not personal. What ever the buttons say, we should be unified in their display.

Guaranteed by the Constitution.  Or recognized as what is ours naturally, without requiring permission from anyone or anything.