92 replies to this topic

[Craigcelia]

http://www.gunssavel...enewal-process/

Those 250,000ish Illinois concealed carry license holders know that they will need a state-mandated three-hour renewal / requalification course to renew their license before it expires at five years after issuance.  The first of Illinois' CCWs will begin to expire in March/April/May 2019.

Long-time gun owners in Illinois have experienced the Illinois State Police's history of sometimes less-than-timely processing of FOID card applications.  While past performance is not an indicator of future performance, some folks are wanting to get an early start on filing for their CCW renewals.  I've gotten multiple calls on this in just the last couple of weeks.

I called the Illinois State Police Firearms Services Bureau this morning so you wouldn't have to.

I spoke with a courteous young woman (I'll leave her name out of it) who did a nice job diplomatically telling me there are no formal policies and procedures for Illinois concealed carry license renewals.  I've put her answers in bold.  Paraphrased.

"Do you guys have a certificate of completion template ready for those seeking to proactively get their state-mandated 3-hour training for renewal out of the way?"  Nope, sorry.  They're working on it.

"Do you have any idea when you might have a handle on this and other issues relating to renewals ready for public distribution?"  Nope, sorry.  They're working on it.

She mentioned that ISP will have something "at least a couple of months out" from when licenses begin to expire.  That didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.  Who wants to spend an hour of range time outside in snow and a -21 degree windchill in January?   Not me.

She also noted that they will probably handle renewals just like new applications.

"So, does that mean local departments will have a 30-day window to object to a renewal even though the existing license has been carried without being suspended or revoked?"  I would assume so, yes.  I can't wait to hear the line of people caught in the two-year (maybe a lot longer under a JB Pritzker administration) holding pattern as the Concealed Carry License Review Board works its way to taking up the objections to renewals!

"So, you believe that a reasonable person would expect that a renewal would take the same four months, without fingerprints, that a new license takes?"  Probably, yes.

PRO-TIP:  The Live-Scan fingerprint vendors won't like me for saying this, but save your money and skip the fingerprints.  Take that $75 and buy some ammo and practice your shooting.  Or, for domestic tranquility, you might consider using it to take your significant other out for a dinner date.  The only benefit to submitting an application with prints is you might get your license back about a month sooner.  

Towards the end of the call, I noted that getting the required training would not happen for most folks overnight, and how it would be nice if the ISP proactively had guidelines out so licensees could begin acquiring the renewal training and range requalification ahead of time.  She agreed, repeating that they are working on it.

 





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Edited by Craigcelia, 23 February 2018 - 04:34 PM.

[BigJim]

You got the state's equivalent of the check's in the mail.

[Sweeper13]

OO boy.. This is going to be fun.

[papa]

It shouldn't surprise anyone . It shouldn't take 30 days to renew our license. Do the back ground check , no issues from previous 5 years , print it and stuff it in the mail.

[markthesignguy]

Incompetence or malevolence?

 

They don't screw us on the front end and anger the Federal Judge - they just get us later through the renewals - "give them five years to get complacent - then STICK it to them!!"

Edited by markthesignguy, 23 February 2018 - 08:46 PM.

[THE KING]

Hey Craig

Thanks for posting that. Here are my thoughts. As an instructor I am approved to teach the 8 hour, 16 hour and 3 hour refresher course.

I sat down and typed out an outline for this 3 hour refresher course based on my approved curriculum. I have been tracking the legislation that has changed in the past 5 years and have incorporated that into my outline.

I believe the only thing we need as instructors is an ISP Certificate to give our students upon completion of their refresher course.

Am I missing something or are we making this harder than it needs to be.

[InterestedBystander]

Hey Craig
Thanks for posting that. Here are my thoughts. As an instructor I am approved to teach the 8 hour, 16 hour and 3 hour refresher course.
I sat down and typed out an outline for this 3 hour refresher course based on my approved curriculum. I have been tracking the legislation that has changed in the past 5 years and have incorporated that into my outline.
I believe the only thing we need as instructors is an ISP Certificate to give our students upon completion of their refresher course.
Am I missing something or are we making this harder than it needs to be.

When last looking at the approved ISP instructor list, everyone is not listed for the 3 hour renewal. Was that a secondary thing you had to request or did it happen at the time of initial approval?

[THE KING]

 

Hey Craig
Thanks for posting that. Here are my thoughts. As an instructor I am approved to teach the 8 hour, 16 hour and 3 hour refresher course.
I sat down and typed out an outline for this 3 hour refresher course based on my approved curriculum. I have been tracking the legislation that has changed in the past 5 years and have incorporated that into my outline.
I believe the only thing we need as instructors is an ISP Certificate to give our students upon completion of their refresher course.
Am I missing something or are we making this harder than it needs to be.

When last looking at the approved ISP instructor list, everyone is not listed for the 3 hour renewal. Was that a secondary thing you had to request or did it happen at the time of initial approval?

 

Mine was done at the initial approval. I have also looked at the approved curriculums that the ISP has listed and you are correct. There are some instructors that state "8 hour and 16 hour only".

 

I believe for those that are already approved for the 3 hour portion, the only thing we need is the ISP Certificate to issue to the students for their renewal.

[wtr100]

Shocking I tell you, shocking ....

[wtr100]

Any point in passing this on to State Senators and State Reps - this has all the hallmarks of a goat rope 

[Dog1]

Below are the original 3 hour curriculum requirements. Unless of course something changes.

 

 3-HOUR RENEWAL CURRICULUM

Renewal Firearm Curriculum must be at least 3 hours and include:

1. All applicable State and Federal laws relating to the ownership, storage, carry, and transportation of a

firearm; 2 hours Classroom Recommended

______ a. The Act relating to the ownership, storage, carry and transportation of a firearm

1) with emphasis on 430 ILCS 66/10(h) which includes instruction on the appropriate and lawful

interaction with law enforcement while transporting or carrying a concealed firearm.

2) with emphasis on 430 ILCS 66/65 which includes instruction on prohibited areas and the parking

lot exception.

______ b. The FOID Act 430 ILCS 65/1 et. seq.

______ c. Relevant portions of the ILCS including but not limited to

1) 720 ILCS 5/7-1. Use of force in defense of a person**

2) 720 ILCS 5/7-2. Use of force in defense of dwelling**

3) 720 ILCS 5/7-3. Use of force in defense of other property**

4) 720 ILCS 24/1 et. seq. Unlawful Use of Weapons**

** Must define dwelling, aggressor, forcible felony and unlawful use of weapons pursuant to the ILCS.

2. Weapon Handling; 1 hour Range Recommended

______ a. Handgun fundamentals

______ b. Handgun concealment

______ c. Live fire qualification instruction

 ______ d. Live fire qualification with a concealable firearm consisting of minimum of 30 rounds which must

include 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds

from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Illinois State Police. (See

www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm)

[Craigcelia]

 

Hey Craig
Thanks for posting that. Here are my thoughts. As an instructor I am approved to teach the 8 hour, 16 hour and 3 hour refresher course.
I sat down and typed out an outline for this 3 hour refresher course based on my approved curriculum. I have been tracking the legislation that has changed in the past 5 years and have incorporated that into my outline.
I believe the only thing we need as instructors is an ISP Certificate to give our students upon completion of their refresher course.
Am I missing something or are we making this harder than it needs to be.


When last looking at the approved ISP instructor list, everyone is not listed for the 3 hour renewal. Was that a secondary thing you had to request or did it happen at the time of initial approval?
 


Mine was done at the initial approval. I have also looked at the approved curriculums that the ISP has listed and you are correct. There are some instructors that state "8 hour and 16 hour only".
 
I believe for those that are already approved for the 3 hour portion, the only thing we need is the ISP Certificate to issue to the students for their renewal.

I personally believe you are right on the money. It looks like most (not all) instructors were already approved for the 3 hour. We just need the certificate template and all they need to do is add a line for the 3 hour.

I wish they would get on it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Gamma]

I guess if one really wanted to, you could do the 8 hour course that's already approved and submit it on the existing certificate.

[Helpdesk9]

"So, does that mean local departments will have a 30-day window to object to a renewal even though the existing license has been carried without being suspended or revoked?"  I would assume so, yes.  I can't wait to hear the line of people caught in the two-year (maybe a lot longer under a JB Pritzker administration) holding pattern as the Concealed Carry License Review Board works its way to taking up the objections to renewals!

That's not acceptable. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[InterestedBystander]

Sounds like same time frame but if another LE objection period is required is not clear. Wonder if anything in JCAR or they would go that way for changes?

http://www.ilga.gov/....asp?ActID=3497

"Applicant" means a person who is applying for a license to carry a concealed firearm under this Act."

"License" means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun."

"(430 ILCS 66/15)
Sec. 15. Objections by law enforcement agencies.
(a) Any law enforcement agency may submit an objection to a license applicant based upon a reasonable suspicion that the applicant is a danger to himself or herself or others, or a threat to public safety. The objection shall be made by the chief law enforcement officer of the law enforcement agency, or his or her designee, and must include any information relevant to the objection. If a law enforcement agency submits an objection within 30 days after the entry of an applicant into the database, the Department shall submit the objection and all information available to the Board under State and federal law related to the application to the Board within 10 days of completing all necessary background checks."

"(430 ILCS 66/50)
Sec. 50. License renewal. Applications for renewal of a license shall be made to the Department. A license shall be renewed for a period of 5 years upon receipt of a completed renewal application, completion of 3 hours of training required under Section 75 of this Act, payment of the applicable renewal fee, and completion of an investigation under Section 35 of this Act. The renewal application shall contain the information required in Section 30 of this Act, except that the applicant need not resubmit a full set of fingerprints."

"(430 ILCS 66/35)
Sec. 35. Investigation of the applicant.
The Department shall conduct a background check of the applicant to ensure compliance with the requirements of this Act and all federal, State, and local laws. The background check shall include a search of the following:
(1) the National Instant Criminal Background Check

System of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;
(2) all available state and local criminal history

record information files, including records of juvenile adjudications;
(3) all available federal, state, and local records

regarding wanted persons;
(4) all available federal, state, and local records

of domestic violence restraining and protective orders;
(5) the files of the Department of Human Services

relating to mental health and developmental disabilities; and
(6) all other available records of a federal, state,

or local agency or other public entity in any jurisdiction likely to contain information relevant to whether the applicant is prohibited from purchasing, possessing, or carrying a firearm under federal, state, or local law.
Fingerprints collected under Section 30 shall be checked against the Department of State Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation criminal history record databases now and hereafter filed. The Department shall charge applicants a fee for conducting the criminal history records check, which shall be deposited in the State Police Services Fund and shall not exceed the actual cost of the records check."

Edited by InterestedBystander, 25 February 2018 - 06:54 AM.

[THE KING]

I guess if one really wanted to, you could do the 8 hour course that's already approved and submit it on the existing certificate.

That would not work as the current certificate does not identify the section of the FCCA that spells out the requirements for the 3 hour renewal.

[Mr. Fife]

I personally believe you are right on the money. It looks like most (not all) instructors were already approved for the 3 hour. We just need the certificate template and all they need to do is add a line for the 3 hour. I wish they would get on it.

I just went to take a look at the instructor list and it does not specify 16, 8, or 3 hours certified. Where it is broken down by hours is in the approved curriculum list. So it depends on which curriculum you are teaching from. If you are teaching an approved 3 hour class that appears in the approved curriculum list, then you are a certified 3 hour renewal instructor.

[Craigcelia]

I just went to take a look at the instructor list and it does not specify 16, 8, or 3 hours certified. Where it is broken down by hours is in the approved curriculum list. So it depends on which curriculum you are teaching from. If you are teaching an approved 3 hour class that appears in the approved curriculum list, then you are a certified 3 hour renewal instructor.

Correct. I take that to mean teach from your 3 hour curriculum and your fine. Because they have some of us listed as "16/8/3", minus any input from ISP, were good. Again, clarification would be nice but to date, we aren't getting. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Jsanc]

Thanks for the info guys

[Mr. Fife]

Correct. I take that to mean teach from your 3 hour curriculum and your fine. Because they have some of us listed as "16/8/3", minus any input from ISP, were good. Again, clarification would be nice but to date, we aren't getting.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is listed as 16/8/3. Only the curriculums are listed as 16/8/3.

[THE KING]

Correct. I take that to mean teach from your 3 hour curriculum and your fine. Because they have some of us listed as "16/8/3", minus any input from ISP, were good. Again, clarification would be nice but to date, we aren't getting.

I think you missed the point. Nobody is listed as 16/8/3. Only the curriculums are listed as 16/8/3.

Mr Fife, not sure I understand your comment. The curriculums that have been approved are tied to the individual instructor. I am approved to teach the 16/8/3. Others are not as their curriculums are only approved for 16/8.

[Molly B.]

But they can instruct from any curriculum that is approved for 3 hrs, if they have or obtain a curriculum approved for 3 hrs.

[Mr. Fife]

Correct. You must write down the curriculum code number you taught from on the certificate. If you have a 3 hour curriculum, then you have the curriculum code number.

[Xwing]

Incompetence or malevolence?

 

They don't screw us on the front end and anger the Federal Judge - they just get us later through the renewals - "give them five years to get complacent - then STICK it to them!!"

 

The ISP has been pretty fair in the last couple of years  (not perfect but at least even-handed).  They are (very slowly) working to improve their processes.  I don't think there is any malevolence there, just the standard government bureaucracy.  They will wait until the 11th hour and shove something together quickly.  Those of us in the first group of renewals (e.g. those who signed up right away originally) will have to react quickly to get everything in time.  But it'll be doable...

[Dog1]

I beleive I am agreeing with Moly an Mr. Fife. The instructor approval letter I received from ISP simply says " ...your application for Illinois Concealed Carry Firearms (ILCCF) Instructor has been reviewed and approved." There is no reference to 16,8,or 3 hour courses.

The curriculum approval letter I received says, " ...your request for approval of Concealed Carry License Fiirearms Cirriculum entitled: Illinois 16/8 Hour Concealed Carry, Illinois 3 Hour Concealed Carry Renewal, has been reviewed and approved."

My understanding is any ISP approved instructor may teach any course (3,8,16 hour) The instructor may use any ISP approved curriculum. The curriculum may have been submitted for approval by the individual, purchased from IC, obtained from another instructor, etc.

[ScopeEye]

Tagged for info

[luckydawg13]

tagged 

[armadroid]

This sounds like a nightmare

[Craigcelia]

I just emailed my State Rep about the lack of information from the ISP so far about renewing the licenses as early as April 2019, seeing if she can get any information about the certificate template, way for people to renew, and a timeline.  She surprisingly sent me a response saying she would reach out to her contacts at the ISP and let me know (Rep Michelle Mussman 56th Dist).  I'll post anything further here.

[Molly B.]

Spoke with ISP folks while in Springfield this week.  They say they are on this and will roll out in time for the renewals.