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Just wondering, if voter ID laws disenfranchise the elderly and minorities, don't firearm background check ID laws do the same thing?


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#1 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 04:32 PM

I'm very much for the government staying out of everyone's business on every subject, until they are specifically requested by individuals to serve their needs, and then only to the satisfaction and limits that the individual (also known as a member of The People) insists on the government having, so it occurred to me that voter ID laws being problematic are consistent with firearm background checks requiring photo IDs being equally as problematic. Because, it actually is, isn't it?

 

Thus, if requiring a photo ID for voting is specifically intended or serves to disenfranchise minorities and the elderly—two demographics very likely to not have photo ID for various reasons—from their Constitutionally guaranteed voting rights, wouldn't the exact same logic speak to identical disenfranchisement of the very same groups in terms of the equally Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that the Second Amendment guarantees, if photo identification is required for background checks?

 

No photo ID, you can't vote, which is bad due to the denial of a Constitutional right. No photo ID, you can't keep and bear arms, is therefore also bad due to the denial of a Constitutional right. Yes?

 

Seems that if you agree with the first, you MUST agree with the second, and vice-versa. If you do not, then you are an anti-Constitutional hypocrite who despises the principles under which this country was formed, and thus shouldn't live here or enjoy its freedoms.

 

Seems a reasonable assessment to me.


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 04 January 2018 - 04:34 PM.

"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
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#2 chicagoresident

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 04:58 PM

My biggest problem is that a government charges for an ID. So it is in violation of the 24th ammendment because, even though small its a poll tax.

If the government wanted to provide an ID for free then they are welcome to require an ID to vote.

Almost all ammendments after the first 10 are redundant because they serve as a double reminder to fairly respect the first 10 ammendments. Like, no really, charging a fee to participate in democracy in a republic really isn't a republic at all.

Edited by chicagoresident, 04 January 2018 - 05:00 PM.


#3 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:00 PM

My biggest problem is that a government charges for an ID. So it is in violation of the 24th ammendment because, even though small its a poll tax.

If the government wanted to provide an ID for free then they are welcome to require an ID to vote.

The ammendments after the first 10 are redundant because they serve as a double reminder to fairly respect the first 10 ammendments. Like, no really, charging a fee to participate in democracy in a republic really isn't a republic at all.

 

So, you agree similarly that if the government wanted to provide an ID for free, they would also equally be welcome to require an ID to keep and bear arms?

 

giphy.gif


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 04 January 2018 - 05:12 PM.

"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

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#4 chicagoresident

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:11 PM

My biggest problem is that a government charges for an ID. So it is in violation of the 24th ammendment because, even though small its a poll tax.If the government wanted to provide an ID for free then they are welcome to require an ID to vote.
The ammendments after the first 10 are redundant because they serve as a double reminder to fairly respect the first 10 ammendments. Like, no really, charging a fee to participate in democracy in a republic really isn't a republic at all.

 
So, you agree similarly that if the government wanted to provide an ID for free, they would also equally be welcome to require an ID to keep and bear arms?
The right to bear arms is a natural right. It applies to everyone, even undocumented immigrants here illegally. As long as you are not an enemy of the state/agent of another state.

The 10th ammendment, which I think could be applied to voting in this situation says:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Which, among other things assures that the powers of the federal government are delegated by the people of the United States. And since we broke free from colonialism we were pretty against any other agent of another country delegating power to the government. Which is what the declaration of independence and the body of the constitution laid out.

So you need to prove citizenship to vote, but not to carry arms as long as long as you aren't an enemy of the state/soldier of another state. So I couldn't figure out a reason an ID was needed other then to infringe on your 2nd ammendment rights. If an ID was free and a means to assure elections were fair then what right is it infringing on?

Edited by chicagoresident, 04 January 2018 - 05:16 PM.


#5 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:15 PM

 

 

So, you agree similarly that if the government wanted to provide an ID for free, they would also equally be welcome to require an ID to keep and bear arms?
The right to bear arms is a natural right. It applies to everyone, even undocumented immigrants here illegally. As long as you are not an enemy of the state/agent of another state.

The 10th ammendment, which I think could be applied to voting in this situation says:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Which, among other things assures that the powers of the federal government are delegated by the people of the United States. And since we broke free from colonialism we were pretty against any other agent of another country delegating power to the government.

So you need to prove citizenship to vote, but not to carry arms. So I couldn't figure out a reason an ID was needed other then to infringe on your 2nd ammendment rights.

 

 

giphy.gif


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#6 chicagoresident

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:23 PM

It's kind of 2 different points. The right to bear arms is like your right to breath.

We also have a right to fair democracy not tainted by foreign states (like people from other countries that aren't US citizens shouldn't be able to register millions of votes for a leader favorable to their country).

I'm not saying an ID is the only way to enforce fair representive democracy, but fair representive democracy needs to be enforced.

But charging for an ID that is a requirement to vote is a poll tax. Not only is it unfair it violates the 24th ammendment.

On the flip side to that it's been proven that people are willing to undermine democracy. How do you prevent that?

Edited by chicagoresident, 04 January 2018 - 05:26 PM.


#7 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 05:28 PM

It's kind of 2 different points. The right to bear arms is like your right to breath.

We also have a right to fair democracy not tainted by foreign states (like people from other countries that aren't US citizens shouldn't be able to register millions of votes for a leader favorable to their country).

I'm not saying an ID is the only way to enforce fair representive democracy, but fair representive democracy needs to be enforced.

But charging for an ID that is a requirement to vote is a poll tax. Not only is it unfair it violates the 24th ammendment.

On the flip side to that it's been proven that people are willing to undermine democracy. How do you prevent that?

 

The point aside from that, though, is that requiring ID for a right enshrined in the Constitution, as keeping and bearing arms is in the 2nd, and voting is in the 15th, 19th, and 26th, disenfranchises minorities and the elderly, who are much less likely to have IDs.

 

That is the crux of the issue. If one, then the other. If not one, then not the other similarly.

 

SHOW%2BME%2BYOUR%2BPAPERS%2BPLEASE.jpg


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 04 January 2018 - 05:32 PM.

"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#8 DomG

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:38 PM

You're all so silly. You actually believe the right to bear arms is actually a RIGHT. Regardless of what that meaningless Bill of Rigths has to say, Congress, state legislatures and the courts have all proven time and time again, that it is a doled out privilege that they will give and take away whenever they choose.

Sarcasm off, but unfortunately true.

Edited by DomG, 04 January 2018 - 06:43 PM.

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#9 VannDaddy

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:32 PM

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

#10 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:50 PM

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

 

The point is, you see, that if voter ID laws disenfranchise such folks from their Constitutional right to vote, as those who advocate them say that they do . . . and let's beg the question and say that they, in fact, do so, then by that same token of consistency of logic, such requirements for ID for background checks and purchasing firearms must also be a disenfranchisement of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

 

Again, if one, then therefore the other. If not one, then not the other, either.

 

Either it's fine to require ID for both voting AND for background checks for acquiring firearms, or it is NOT fine for requiring it for either, Constitutionally speaking. There is NO other choice.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#11 THE KING

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:08 PM

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

 
The point is, you see, that if voter ID laws disenfranchise such folks from their Constitutional right to vote, as those who advocate them say that they do . . . and let's beg the question and say that they, in fact, do so, then by that same token of consistency of logic, such requirements for ID for background checks and purchasing firearms must also be a disenfranchisement of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
 
Again, if one, then therefore the other. If not one, then not the other, either.
 
Either it's fine to require ID for both voting AND for background checks for acquiring firearms, or it is NOT fine for requiring it for either, Constitutionally speaking. There is NO other choice.

+1000. I agree, they can't have it both ways.

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#12 wtr100

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:23 PM

you don't understand the swamp wants illegals to vote and they don't want us to exercise our privilege to bear arms  


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#13 Dieter

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 11:34 PM

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

 

It is pretty sad to think so lowly of minorities and the elderly. Through the secretary of state id's are free to those 65 and older and they and have no expiration date. Even the homeless and convicts coming out of jail can get free id's. Is a standard $20 id good for 5 years too much to ask someone to get, and to hold onto? 

 

As far as the need for a picture id to purchase a weapon and not needed to vote, that is something I dont think i have thought about  before. hmmmmm...



#14 luckydawg13

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

I was just talking about this with some of my coworkers that I wish that they would ask for a ID when i vote
One of the guys said that he always has to show his ID and his voter card I called BS on this have you ever had to show
any form of in ID to vote in this state

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#15 mikew

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:58 AM

http://www.chicagotr...0912-story.html

 

Jonh Lott in the fall of 2017:

 

Republicans worry about vote fraud. Democrats claim that Republicans are just imagining things. But in testimony Tuesday before the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, I will suggest a simple solution that could make both parties happy: Apply the background check system for gun purchases to voting.

Democrats have long lauded background checks on gun purchases as simple, accurate and in complete harmony with the Second Amendment right to own guns. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., has bragged that the checks “make our communities and neighborhoods safer without in any way abridging rights or threatening a legitimate part of the American heritage.”

If Democrats really believe that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System doesn’t interfere “in any way” with people’s constitutional rights to own a gun, doesn't it follow that the same system would not constitute an infringement on people’s right to vote? This would give Republicans a system for stopping vote fraud and Democrats a system that they have already vigorously endorsed.

The NICS system doesn't just determine if potential gun buyers have criminal histories. It also checks whether a person is in this country illegally, has a nonimmigrant visa or has renounced his citizenship. Such people are not allowed to vote. The system doesn’t currently flag people who are on immigrant visas but who could be added to the system.

In 34 states, felons are not able to vote immediately upon release. The background-check system would detect these too.

 

---more---



#16 CILhunter

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:35 AM

I was just talking about this with some of my coworkers that I wish that they would ask for a ID when i vote
One of the guys said that he always has to show his ID and his voter card I called BS on this have you ever had to show
any form of in ID to vote in this state

 

I have been asked for ID the last 3 or 4 times I have voted.  This started when there was a realignment of some of the polling places in my area, because a couple of locations stopped allowing polling places, so they had to move.  The first time I was asked, I quite possibly might have made a smart @$$ comment about how I hoped they were also asking non-English speakers for ID.  The Democrat poll watcher (I knew the Republican, so I assume she was the Democrat, at least) looked at me like I had just strangled her puppy.  I suspect that got me put on a "list", as I have never been able to get it resolved.  The last time our County Clerk (who is responsible for the voter rolls) actually happened to be stopping in the polling place when they asked me for my "papers".  She looked at the computer and had no explanation for why I keep getting flagged.  I told her it was at least a little irritating, but I was willing to deal with it if they would JUST ASK EVERYONE.  That was also not a popular comment.



#17 cybermgk

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:11 AM

 

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

 

The point is, you see, that if voter ID laws disenfranchise such folks from their Constitutional right to vote, as those who advocate them say that they do . . . and let's beg the question and say that they, in fact, do so, then by that same token of consistency of logic, such requirements for ID for background checks and purchasing firearms must also be a disenfranchisement of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

 

Again, if one, then therefore the other. If not one, then not the other, either.

 

Either it's fine to require ID for both voting AND for background checks for acquiring firearms, or it is NOT fine for requiring it for either, Constitutionally speaking. There is NO other choice.

 

First, I think you're conflating disenfranchise with requiring an ID.  The only successful constitutional argument used to knock down voter id laws has been calling it a poll tax of sorts.  Though I would be real interested in seeing a municipality provide, free ID then require voter ID to vote, and then see what 'argument' is made. 

 

I also think you're mixing up an inalienable right, i.e. one that isn't granted by the Constitution, but confirmed, like 2A rights, and those that were/are granted by the Constitution.  All men, did not have the vote until the late 1800s.  We actually didn't beat women by all that much, and had to be drafted to gain the right for all men.


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#18 bmurph44

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:35 AM

you don't understand the swamp wants illegals to vote and they don't want us to exercise our privilege to bear arms  

 

Yes everyone understands it's very simple, the right don't want to make it convenient for the left to vote and left don't want the right to have guns.....lol



#19 chicagoresident

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:51 AM

TL/DR
The 2nd
the people=everyone can bear arms without infringements

Right to vote
Is exclusively granted to US citizens (by definition of a Republic) but the manner of voting is dictated by Congress. So ID is fair as long as it's not a restriction from voting and isn't a poll tax. Nothing restricts anyone from getting an ID and voting, asside from the possible cost of an ID.


Longer explanation
Constitution

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government

Websters dictionary

Republic-a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

Even in the body of the constitution it gives elected officials of congress the right to regulate how elections are held, as long as they uphold the definition of a republic (government that is run by its citizens).

So congress is within their constitutional right to choose a manner of elections that upholds the ideals of a Republic.

People multiple voting on behalf of an elected official is government run by government. And non US citizens voting is government run by another country. Both grievances of which our country was founded on.

If Congress feels that requiring a photo ID ensures that we uphold the values of the republic then they are within their rights. As long as they give everyone the means to get an ID when voting and as long as they don't charge for it they aren't restricting anyone's rights to vote. This could be one of any number of ways congress is within their powers to ensure the actual people of the United States are voting, not the government voting or foreign nationals.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.


Edited by chicagoresident, 05 January 2018 - 09:05 AM.


#20 TRJ

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:51 AM

 

 

I’d like to know how voter ID laws disenfranchise anyone? Are you saying that minorities and elderly are too incompetent to find a Secretary of State office and get a license or ID? It’s a pretty ignorant and racist to think that.

 

The point is, you see, that if voter ID laws disenfranchise such folks from their Constitutional right to vote, as those who advocate them say that they do . . . and let's beg the question and say that they, in fact, do so, then by that same token of consistency of logic, such requirements for ID for background checks and purchasing firearms must also be a disenfranchisement of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

 

Again, if one, then therefore the other. If not one, then not the other, either.

 

Either it's fine to require ID for both voting AND for background checks for acquiring firearms, or it is NOT fine for requiring it for either, Constitutionally speaking. There is NO other choice.

 

First, I think you're conflating disenfranchise with requiring an ID.  The only successful constitutional argument used to knock down voter id laws has been calling it a poll tax of sorts.  Though I would be real interested in seeing a municipality provide, free ID then require voter ID to vote, and then see what 'argument' is made. 

 

I also think you're mixing up an inalienable right, i.e. one that isn't granted by the Constitution, but confirmed, like 2A rights, and those that were/are granted by the Constitution.  All men, did not have the vote until the late 1800s.  We actually didn't beat women by all that much, and had to be drafted to gain the right for all men.

 

Thank you. You saved me some typing.



#21 mikew

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:52 AM

Here's some Old News:

UN-backed international pollwatchers incredulous that USA does not have ID of voters, nor police at the polls.

 

https://townhall.com...to-vote-n695241



#22 spec5

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:57 AM

I get so tired of hearing about the Disenfranchised voters. That is something made up by Democrats. There are all kinds of things that you need a driver’s license for other than driving and or an ID. Who on this forum doesn’t have an ID or driver’s license? The Whole idea of not being able to get an ID or driver’s license is racist. It is used for opening bank accounts, getting a passport, boarding a plane, writing checks for verification, my bank requires an ID at the teller window, buying property, getting a CCL, etc.
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#23 TRJ

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:13 AM

I get so tired of hearing about the Disenfranchised voters. That is something made up by Democrats. There are all kinds of things that you need a driver’s license for other than driving and or an ID. Who on this forum doesn’t have an ID or driver’s license? The Whole idea of not being able to get an ID or driver’s license is racist. It is used for opening bank accounts, getting a passport, boarding a plane, writing checks for verification, my bank requires an ID at the teller window, buying property, getting a CCL, etc.

I've been fortunate to never have needed to do this, but I suspect using a check cashing service needs ID. Signing up for public aid probably requires ID too. 



#24 cybermgk

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:51 AM

I get so tired of hearing about the Disenfranchised voters. That is something made up by Democrats. There are all kinds of things that you need a driver’s license for other than driving and or an ID. Who on this forum doesn’t have an ID or driver’s license? The Whole idea of not being able to get an ID or driver’s license is racist. It is used for opening bank accounts, getting a passport, boarding a plane, writing checks for verification, my bank requires an ID at the teller window, buying property, getting a CCL, etc.

Agreed.  And we know why the Dems don't want ID required, so they can make voter fraud viable.  BUT, unfortunately, a Drivers license requires a cash outlay to get.  And, requiring anything that requires a cash payment will continue to be considered a 'poll tax', and thus unconstitutional and illegal.


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#25 Odinson

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:16 PM

I was just talking about this with some of my coworkers that I wish that they would ask for a ID when i vote
One of the guys said that he always has to show his ID and his voter card I called BS on this have you ever had to show
any form of in ID to vote in this state

I had to show ID to vote at the last POTUS election.  The rationale was that my signature had changed a lot.  They had one on their computer that looked to be about 20 years old (and was pretty different, signature has gotten pretty obscure over the years).



#26 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:25 PM

All I know is my voter id card came in the mail for free and it costs many millions of dollars to run elections, my concealed carry also a constitutional right cost me a lot of money and I suspect a lot less expensive then running elections.   Talk about a poll tax....   Poor people just don't have the right to defend themselves.   DIE POOR PEOPLE DIE! 


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#27 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:43 PM

 

 

The point is, you see, that if voter ID laws disenfranchise such folks from their Constitutional right to vote, as those who advocate them say that they do . . . and let's beg the question and say that they, in fact, do so, then by that same token of consistency of logic, such requirements for ID for background checks and purchasing firearms must also be a disenfranchisement of the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

 

Again, if one, then therefore the other. If not one, then not the other, either.

 

Either it's fine to require ID for both voting AND for background checks for acquiring firearms, or it is NOT fine for requiring it for either, Constitutionally speaking. There is NO other choice.

 

First, I think you're conflating disenfranchise with requiring an ID.  The only successful constitutional argument used to knock down voter id laws has been calling it a poll tax of sorts.  Though I would be real interested in seeing a municipality provide, free ID then require voter ID to vote, and then see what 'argument' is made. 

 

I also think you're mixing up an inalienable right, i.e. one that isn't granted by the Constitution, but confirmed, like 2A rights, and those that were/are granted by the Constitution.  All men, did not have the vote until the late 1800s.  We actually didn't beat women by all that much, and had to be drafted to gain the right for all men.

 

 

I'll direct you to this comment:

 

All I know is my voter id card came in the mail for free and it costs many millions of dollars to run elections, my concealed carry also a constitutional right cost me a lot of money and I suspect a lot less expensive then running elections.   Talk about a poll tax....   Poor people just don't have the right to defend themselves.   DIE POOR PEOPLE DIE! 


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

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#28 luckydawg13

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

well i'm glad that some people are asked to show in ID

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#29 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 05:57 PM

well i'm glad that some people are asked to show in ID

 

For voting, or for firearm background checks?


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

Gb1XExdm.jpg
 
 

 
 
 
 


#30 luckydawg13

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:43 PM

well i'm glad that some people are asked to show in ID

 
For voting, or for firearm background checks?

Voting

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