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New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. The City of New York


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#241 chislinger

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:40 PM

So at this point no news is good news? Surely they wouldn't wait until June if they were going to rule it moot and we'd hear that sooner than later?
"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams

#242 Euler

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Posted 18 December 2019 - 10:46 PM

Their next conference is Jan 10. I wouldn't expect anything before then.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#243 Charles Nichols

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 05:22 AM

So at this point no news is good news? Surely they wouldn't wait until June if they were going to rule it moot and we'd hear that sooner than later?

At this point, no news is no news, and nothing else.  

Here is a link to a well-written article on mootness and the NYSRPA v. NYC oral argument.  


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#244 mrmagloo

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 11:09 AM

.... Chief Justice Roberts led the charge?  Ahem...

 

Imho, if the new law they enacted to undermine the lawsuit still infringes on our 2A rights, which it does, they have an obligation to right this wrong.  This business about allowing the state to reset and kick the can, forcing a new lawsuit to determine the constitutionality of the new law is crazy.  This entire logic of allowing government to infringe on Constitutional Rights, with clearly bad and onerous laws, for years and decades as it works it's way through the courts is a complete and utter travesty.  Our forefathers never anticipated a court system that allowed cases to stall for a decade or more, while the harm continues. I'm sure they also didn't anticipate murders going through years, and years through countless appeals and millions of dollars of tax payers money for smoking gun cases.



#245 press1280

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 06:48 AM

So at this point no news is good news? Surely they wouldn't wait until June if they were going to rule it moot and we'd hear that sooner than later?

I'd agree with this. I doubt they hold a mootness ruling until June. A wild guess on my part (if they rule it's moot and there's dissents) might be it comes in February or March.

In the meantime I don't expect any of the held cases to do anything until then.



#246 Richrude

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 10:48 PM

Anyone know why transcript and audio are not listed on SCOTUS web site



#247 Euler

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 04:50 AM

Anyone know why transcript and audio are not listed on SCOTUS web site


I'm not sure if this question is still live, but audio (various formats) and transcript (pdf) are available.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#248 Euler

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 05:13 AM

A retired anti-2A judge bemoans the upcoming decision at AlterNet.

The Supreme Court is poised to extend gun rights at the worst possible time
April 8, 2020

...
In December's oral arguments, the city again asked the court to moot the case. The city made no attempt to defend the transportation ban.

Unfortunately, given the city's capitulation and the Supreme Court's right-wing orientation, the only real remaining question is the scope of the NRA's inevitable victory. Even if the court reconsiders the city's request and enters a dismissal order, the NRA will walk away with a significant win, having forced the city to rescind one of the most stringent gun-control laws in the country. On the other hand, a decision on the merits on constitutional grounds in the NRA's favor would reward the organization with an even bigger triumph, endangering gun-control laws everywhere.

A nation awash in firearms in the grip of the COVID-19 pandemic awaits the court's decision, which is expected by the end of June.


... This is not an NRA case. The NRA did file an amicus brief, but so did everybody else on the planet, it seems. The NYSRPA did this one solo.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#249 Quiet Observer

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Posted 16 April 2020 - 10:57 AM

I think that the left blames the NRA for any thing connected to gun rights. 

 

Hopefully his prediction will come true and a favorable 2A decision will have nationwide effect.



#250 civilone

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 07:17 AM

What I have found interesting is the assertion that NRA is the bad guy; it puts an easily targettable face on the 2nd Amendment.  Conversely, in a conversation with an anti-2nd Amendment person if they make the point that it is the NRA pushing all this gun stuff, I make the point that the 2nd Amendment has little to do with the NRA.  The 2nd Amendment is a God given right for Americans to protect ourselves, hunt, act as a check on the government at all levels, etc.  As far as I am concerned I do not need the NRA at all for the 2nd Amendment, although I do support them.  There is usually a glazing of the anti-2nd Amendment person's eyes when presented this way.



#251 Druid

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 08:53 AM

They ruled the case MOOT.

 

 

petitioners’ claim for injunctive relief against New York City’s old rule is moot and that petitioners’ new claims should be addressed as appropriate in the first instance by the Court of Appeals and the District Court on remand.

 

But said they should grant cert and handle these issues in another pending case:

 

 some federal and state courts may not be properly applying Heller and McDonald. The Court should address that issue soon, perhaps in one of the several Second Amendment cases with petitions for certiorari now pending before the Court. 

 

Full Opinion:

https://www.supremec...18-280_ba7d.pdf



#252 8x57

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:00 AM

This was somewhat expected. The question now is what will happen to the several 2nd amendment cert petitions they've been holding for the last year. Now that NYSRPA is done, we'll finally get to see what SCOTUS has in mind those cases.

Just reading the NYSRPA opinion it's easy to see that Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh want to hear another 2A case, and it only takes 4 votes to grant cert....

#253 steveTA84

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM

Kavanaugh basically signaled that they’ll hear some of the pending cases. There’s stronger ones than the NY one anyways

#254 Rangerdeepv

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:25 AM

In other words...........punted. 



#255 cybermgk

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:21 PM

They ruled the case MOOT.

 

 

petitioners’ claim for injunctive relief against New York City’s old rule is moot and that petitioners’ new claims should be addressed as appropriate in the first instance by the Court of Appeals and the District Court on remand.

 

But said they should grant cert and handle these issues in another pending case:

 

 some federal and state courts may not be properly applying Heller and McDonald. The Court should address that issue soon, perhaps in one of the several Second Amendment cases with petitions for certiorari now pending before the Court. 

 

Full Opinion:

https://www.supremec...18-280_ba7d.pdf

"some federal and state courts may not be properly applying Heller and McDonald. The Court should address that issue soon, perhaps in one of the several Second Amendment cases with petitions for certiorari now pending before the Court.
"

 

THAT is far more important, for us all. 
 


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#256 mab22

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:29 PM

So now states can enact these unfair laws and when it goes to the SCOTUS, they just make modify it wasting the defense's resources into oblivion.

Death by a thousands of paper cuts.


Void the FOID!

#257 davel501

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 01:30 PM

I'm reading the decision as they did not dismiss it, rather they remanded it to the lower court to look at the case again in light of the changes to the laws with a warning from 4 justices that they are not looking at Heller the right way. This very case could be back before the court.



#258 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 05:22 PM

So, unless one of the other cases that have been held pending this decision is ruled in favor of the Second Amendment, this was pretty much a wash that forced New York to make changes only to avoid a decision on Constitutional grounds because they knew their law wouldn't fly.

 

Thus, by doing so, they were allowed to commit malfeasance and violate the civil rights of citizens without any real penalty.

 

This is a real Reginald J. Shatbox development.



"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."  
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 

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#259 press1280

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 06:25 AM

I'm reading the decision as they did not dismiss it, rather they remanded it to the lower court to look at the case again in light of the changes to the laws with a warning from 4 justices that they are not looking at Heller the right way. This very case could be back before the court.

It looks like it's back to the appeals court but only to address any damages issue. The case as it relates to the 2A seems to be over.

All other held 2A cases are heading back to conference this Friday...... 



#260 Druid

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 07:25 AM

Interesting. At least SCOTUS has decided to move quickly to vote on which other 2A case they would rather have.

 

Any predictions on which of these they may choose Friday? These are all on their calendar for that day.

Monday would be the day they announce the result. 

 

Mance v. Barr
Pena v. Horan
Rogers v. Grewal
Gould v. Lipson
Ciolek v. New Jersey
Cheeseman v. Polillo
Worman v. Healey
Malpasso v. Pallozzi
Culp v. Raoul
Wilson v. Cook County


#261 davel501

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 09:07 AM

I'm reading the decision as they did not dismiss it, rather they remanded it to the lower court to look at the case again in light of the changes to the laws with a warning from 4 justices that they are not looking at Heller the right way. This very case could be back before the court.

It looks like it's back to the appeals court but only to address any damages issue. The case as it relates to the 2A seems to be over.
All other held 2A cases are heading back to conference this Friday......

I read to address additional claims as well as damages because they have not resolved all of the original infringement.

#262 BobPistol

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 11:36 AM

I'm disappointed but not really surprised.

 

Real human rights don't take a step forward day after day, unfortunately. 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#263 press1280

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 11:53 AM

 

Interesting. At least SCOTUS has decided to move quickly to vote on which other 2A case they would rather have.

 

Any predictions on which of these they may choose Friday? These are all on their calendar for that day.

Monday would be the day they announce the result. 

 

Mance v. Barr
Pena v. Horan
Rogers v. Grewal
Gould v. Lipson
Ciolek v. New Jersey
Cheeseman v. Polillo
Worman v. Healey
Malpasso v. Pallozzi
Culp v. Raoul
Wilson v. Cook County

 

Normal practice would be to take a may-issue permit case since there's a clear circuit split.

 

But since they initially took this case (no split) I'm looking more to low hanging fruit and a law that even the most ardent antis will have a hard time defending and no one will miss. My vote is Pena v. Horan. I think it may take a few conferences though.



#264 Flynn

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 11:04 PM

I'm reading the decision as they did not dismiss it, rather they remanded it to the lower court to look at the case again in light of the changes to the laws with a warning from 4 justices that they are not looking at Heller the right way. This very case could be back before the court.

 

That is what I'm seeing as well, even without a 'win' ruling the Supreme court just put the lower courts on notice that they best stop ignoring Heller as they very well are about to send a stronger message.


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#265 fxdpntc

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 08:58 AM

 

I'm reading the decision as they did not dismiss it, rather they remanded it to the lower court to look at the case again in light of the changes to the laws with a warning from 4 justices that they are not looking at Heller the right way. This very case could be back before the court.

 

 the Supreme court just put the lower courts on notice that they best stop ignoring Heller as they very well are about to send a stronger message.

 

A back handed way of affirming Shepard/Moore v Madigan, since Posner obviously DID NOT ignore Heller in his decision? 



#266 Sweeper13

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 11:26 AM

Article from Fox news, on Alitos dissent. 

 

https://www.foxnews....n-supreme-court


Edited by Sweeper13, 29 April 2020 - 11:26 AM.


#267 press1280

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 10:46 AM

https://www.supremec...brief FINAL.pdf

Supplemental brief filed in the Rogers case (NJ may-issue).

#268 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 11:34 AM

https://www.supremec...brief FINAL.pdf

Supplemental brief filed in the Rogers case (NJ may-issue).

 

Does this mean what I think it does . . .

 

New Jersey’s  law  cannot  be squared  with  the text, history,  or tradition  of  the Second  Amendment,  and this  case  provides  an  ideal  vehicle  for this  Court  to develop  its  Second  Amendment  law  and  correct  the mistaken  approach  of  the  Third Circuit  and other courts  in  applying  watered-down scrutiny  and effectively  rendering  the Second  Amendment  a  homebound  right.

 

. . . because if it does, it looks like anti-civil-rights clowns might be getting set to be taken out to the forest preserves and made to duck-walk pantsless while someone with wingtips follows along behind them kicking them up where the sun don't shine.



"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."  
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
 
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 

"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me

 

"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck."—Samurai proverb

 

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."—Robert Heinlein

 

"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist."—Me

 

"It ain't braggin' if you done it."—Will Rogers

 

InX89li.jpg     


#269 davel501

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 12:09 PM

https://www.supremec...brief FINAL.pdf
Supplemental brief filed in the Rogers case (NJ may-issue).

 
Does this mean what I think it does . . .
 
New Jersey’s  law  cannot  be squared  with  the text, history,  or tradition  of  the Second  Amendment,  and this  case  provides  an  ideal  vehicle  for this  Court  to develop  its  Second  Amendment  law  and  correct  the mistaken  approach  of  the  Third Circuit  and other courts  in  applying  watered-down scrutiny  and effectively  rendering  the Second  Amendment  a  homebound  right.
 
. . . because if it does, it looks like anti-civil-rights clowns might be getting set to be taken out to the forest preserves and made to duck-walk pantsless while someone with wingtips follows along behind them kicking them up where the sun don't shine.

Wow.




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