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Which is better the 45 or 9mm


Uncle Harley

Which is Better  

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  1. 1. 9mm or 45 you must defend your answer



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My Glock 19 with 16 rounds of NATO 124 gr full metal jacket

 

Out of curiosity, why FMJ over any of the hollowpoints out there?

 

I am retired Army and moved (kicking, fighting and screaming) from the .45acp 230 FMJ to the Beretta M9 with the 124 gr FMJ in 1987 when I went back on active duty. Over the next 12 years (I was med retired in 1999) I came to love the M9 and the NATO FMJ. The US doesn't use hollow points (wink, winbk, nudge, nedge) because of various treaties. The 124 gr NATO round is a pretty hot round. It is very capable of penetrating doors, car bodies , whatever and still doing some damage on the other side. One of its strongest points is that it will reliably feed. I really like Gold Dots and I even like the Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP but they are expensive to shoot. I not only use the NATO round as my every day carry, I also use it to practice with. I have not yet started reloading and at my age, probably never will. I sue the NATO round in both my Glocks, my Kahr and my Kel Tec Sub 2K rifle and don't worry about FTF(ire) or FTF(eed) in any of them.

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Maybe I'm over-simplifying the argument, but here's my logic.....if I'm ever (God forbid) in a gunfight, I will assume that I'm going to get shot before I can empty my own gun. I don't think it much matters if you've got 8 .45 ACPs or 15 9mms....Assuming I can only get two or three rounds down range, which will have the better chance of eliminating the threat? I can't find a good, rational argument against a .45 ACP hydrashok, or two, or three.
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9mm is more affordable. Gel tests may show the 45 causing more damage but it's not like the 9mm is a bug bit either. I think it would be safe to say that a modern 9mm HP causes as much if not more damage than a 45 from a decade or so ago. The higher round count is always nice. XD for example 9mm takes I believe 19+1 while 45 is 12+1. Lots of folks will argue that you only need one but those are mostly the paper killer types, anyone who has ever been in any sort of "gun fight" knows no matter how much training you have when the rounds are coming your way your mag seems to be empty after one trigger pull.
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How about this argument for the 9mm- PENETRATION!

 

This gem I picked up from Chuck Taylor while taking his Advanced Tactical Handgun course at CLETC. He said that on one of his Special Forces contracts he was provided 20 brand new GM vehicles to shoot up for testing purposes. The result: 9mm was superior for penetrating car doors and vehicle glass than .45.

 

Why? Simple math. A .45 cal is a larger diameter hole with less velocity, and 9mm is a smaller hole with more velocity which penetrates sheet metal and glass with more ease. His conclusion? If you are carrying on the street and spend much of your time in and around vehicles, or work in an armed capacity where threats may be coming from people in and around vehicles, go for a hot 9mm round like the Corbon DPX. If your gun sits in a nightstand for things that go bump in the night, a .45 is swell.

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How about this argument for the 9mm- PENETRATION!

 

This gem I picked up from Chuck Taylor while taking his Advanced Tactical Handgun course at CLETC. He said that on one of his Special Forces contracts he was provided 20 brand new GM vehicles to shoot up for testing purposes. The result: 9mm was superior for penetrating car doors and vehicle glass than .45.

 

Why? Simple math. A .45 cal is a larger diameter hole with less velocity, and 9mm is a smaller hole with more velocity which penetrates sheet metal and glass with more ease. His conclusion? If you are carrying on the street and spend much of your time in and around vehicles, or work in an armed capacity where threats may be coming from people in and around vehicles, go for a hot 9mm round like the Corbon DPX. If your gun sits in a nightstand for things that go bump in the night, a .45 is swell.

 

Interesting.... So by using that logic (which seems to have allot of credentials backing it up) would we be safe in saying: 9mm for daily carry .45 home defense?

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How about this argument for the 9mm- PENETRATION!

 

This gem I picked up from Chuck Taylor while taking his Advanced Tactical Handgun course at CLETC. He said that on one of his Special Forces contracts he was provided 20 brand new GM vehicles to shoot up for testing purposes. The result: 9mm was superior for penetrating car doors and vehicle glass than .45.

 

Why? Simple math. A .45 cal is a larger diameter hole with less velocity, and 9mm is a smaller hole with more velocity which penetrates sheet metal and glass with more ease. His conclusion? If you are carrying on the street and spend much of your time in and around vehicles, or work in an armed capacity where threats may be coming from people in and around vehicles, go for a hot 9mm round like the Corbon DPX. If your gun sits in a nightstand for things that go bump in the night, a .45 is swell.

 

Interesting.... So by using that logic (which seems to have allot of credentials backing it up) would we be safe in saying: 9mm for daily carry .45 home defense?

 

Well, the way I look at it, if you don't plan for any obstacles to be between you and the body of the perp you are shooting at...then .45 will do just fine. If you want and desire for round to go through something first, I would choose a 124 or 115 grain 9mm round with in excess of 1250 fps (no subsonic rounds). This is what I would call "hot". Notice also in the gelatin photos that the actual stretch (damage) cavity on the higher velocity rounds is longer. The width of the cavities are thinner than the bigger rounds, but the cavities extend farther towards the landing points with the rounds over 1200 fps.

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How about this argument for the 9mm- PENETRATION!

 

This gem I picked up from Chuck Taylor while taking his Advanced Tactical Handgun course at CLETC. He said that on one of his Special Forces contracts he was provided 20 brand new GM vehicles to shoot up for testing purposes. The result: 9mm was superior for penetrating car doors and vehicle glass than .45.

 

Why? Simple math. A .45 cal is a larger diameter hole with less velocity, and 9mm is a smaller hole with more velocity which penetrates sheet metal and glass with more ease. His conclusion? If you are carrying on the street and spend much of your time in and around vehicles, or work in an armed capacity where threats may be coming from people in and around vehicles, go for a hot 9mm round like the Corbon DPX. If your gun sits in a nightstand for things that go bump in the night, a .45 is swell.

 

Interesting.... So by using that logic (which seems to have allot of credentials backing it up) would we be safe in saying: 9mm for daily carry .45 home defense?

 

Well, the way I look at it, if you don't plan for any obstacles to be between you and the body of the perp you are shooting at...then a .45 will do just fine. If you need a round to go through something first, I would choose a 124 or 115 grain 9mm round with in excess of 1250 fps (no subsonic rounds). This is what I would call "hot".

 

Notice also in the gelatin photos that the actual stretch (damage) cavity on the higher velocity rounds is longer. The width of the cavities are thinner than the bigger rounds, but the cavities extend farther towards the landing points with the rounds over 1200 fps. I was told by a medical expert that a longer wound cavity causes more devastating damage than a wider, shorter wound cavity because more of the actual organ/tissue is being damaged. The long channel lines you see in the photos are equivalent to icepick woulds which are not very damaging. Just my two cents.

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The .45 acp is a proven man-stopper. My compact Glock .45 holds 10 rds. If I can't stop a problem with well under 10 rds, I have no business carrying a gun. More rds. isn't the answer.

 

I could envision situations where the police could use the extra rds. a 9mm would give, but not a private citizen.

Great point I have a 9mm that holds 15 and .45 that holds 12 rounds. Rounds are not the answer, if you can shoot you don't need that many unless you're in a shootout. I've been to the range with guys and they need half a magazine to hit a target and that's a shame.

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How about this argument for the 9mm- PENETRATION!

 

This gem I picked up from Chuck Taylor while taking his Advanced Tactical Handgun course at CLETC. He said that on one of his Special Forces contracts he was provided 20 brand new GM vehicles to shoot up for testing purposes. The result: 9mm was superior for penetrating car doors and vehicle glass than .45.

 

Why? Simple math. A .45 cal is a larger diameter hole with less velocity, and 9mm is a smaller hole with more velocity which penetrates sheet metal and glass with more ease. His conclusion? If you are carrying on the street and spend much of your time in and around vehicles, or work in an armed capacity where threats may be coming from people in and around vehicles, go for a hot 9mm round like the Corbon DPX. If your gun sits in a nightstand for things that go bump in the night, a .45 is swell.

 

Interesting.... So by using that logic (which seems to have allot of credentials backing it up) would we be safe in saying: 9mm for daily carry .45 home defense?

 

Well, the way I look at it, if you don't plan for any obstacles to be between you and the body of the perp you are shooting at...then .45 will do just fine. If you want and desire for round to go through something first, I would choose a 124 or 115 grain 9mm round with in excess of 1250 fps (no subsonic rounds). This is what I would call "hot". Notice also in the gelatin photos that the actual stretch (damage) cavity on the higher velocity rounds is longer. The width of the cavities are thinner than the bigger rounds, but the cavities extend farther towards the landing points with the rounds over 1200 fps.

 

I use Range T 127gr 9 mm ammo, its advertized velocity is 1250 fps. I guess that makes it a good choice. The box says "Law Enforcement Use Only".

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Using the argument that 9mm rounds are more affordable does not make them the best choice for defense. It just means you can practice more for less money. I like the idea of a .45 possibly not doing a thru and thru where the higher velocity 9mm might.As the old saying goes, why carry a .45, cause they don't make a .46.
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Seems like a lot of people are failing to remember that ALL pistol calibers are a compromise and they all suck at incapacitating people.

 

Interesting thought. :whistle:

 

I'm not sure that is accurate. The .454 Casull defiantly does not fit in that "suck at incapacitating people" category.

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36782200/rsra-small%20%281%29.jpg

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All around for carry Id go with a 9mm over a 45, I have both and I cant tell much difference in recoil between the two.... Their both Glocks and I do mostly shoot reloads, I'll admit Im not going full power on either load... My 115 grn 9mm load feels just as "hot" as a 200 grn 45 in a smaller package with more rounds...

 

Don't get me wrong I love reloading and shooting the 45, Big FAT bullets are fun :thumbsup:

 

But their heavier to carry and you have less rounds....

 

They punch bigger holes in paper and the 230 grn loaded hot in a hollow point is hard to beat...

 

But I like the 9mm better LOL

 

I agree Id be more likely to carry the smaller gun and I can always keep the .45 in the vehicle as a back up in whatever state that's legal for where I am...

 

It's easier and cheaper to hand load a "hot" 9mm for practice that's comparable to good factory SD rounds...

 

I also have a Sub 2000 that works nice with my Glock 17 because they both take the same mags...

 

These are both full size Glocks 17 and 21, Id take the 17 every time If I was carrying...

 

All that said I do my best shooting with the .40 compact Glock 27, strange I can shoot that better than my Glock 22 :heart:

 

I guess I just like the .40 and the 9mm better than the 45's I have but Im glad I have em all :rolleyes:

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