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AP article on AR-15 lowers and legal defense

Started by Yeti , Jan 14 2020 01:38 PM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Yeti

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 01:38 PM

There are victories in legal cases by challenging the definition of the lower as the gun

https://apnews.com/3...da99e7793ee6366

DALLAS (AP) A subtle design feature of the AR-15 rifle has raised a technical legal question that is derailing cases against people who are charged with illegally buying and selling the guns parts or building the weapon.

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#2 chislinger

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 02:46 PM

Careful waht you call a "victory", the "fix" will be horrible.

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#3 Yeti

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 03:28 PM

Careful waht you call a "victory", the "fix" will be horrible.

Good point and agreed

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#4 Bitter Clinger

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:03 PM

Instead of going through all of that and worrying about what constitutes a "firearm", can we just follow the Constitution and not infringe on the right?

We can take the F out of ATF, so they are just the "AT".

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#5 MagSlap

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:08 PM

Instead of going through all of that and worrying about what constitutes a "firearm", can we just follow the Constitution and not infringe on the right?
We can take the F out of ATF, so they are just the "AT".

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be a CONVENIENCE STORE...not a G'ment Agency!

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#6 Patriots & Tyrants

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:39 PM

Careful waht you call a "victory", the "fix" will be horrible.

Already people worrying they will just require UPPERS be serialized instead.

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#7 drumgod

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:01 AM

My prediction is that both uppers and lowers will be controlled. Order a complete gun = one transfer. Order an upper and lower from PSA = two transfers.

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#8 Euler

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:44 PM

In the case of the SIG P320/M17, I believe the ATF doesn't even consider the frame to be the firearm, but the modular trigger unit is. The frame is just a plastic housing for the part that is actually regulated.

FWIW, HK pistols (at least) have serialized barrels and slides, because apparently some member nations consider the barrel and/or slide to be the firearm.

Ultimately every part of every firearm is replaceable, so which part is really the "gun" if you break it all into components? You have to pick one.

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.

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#9 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 03:30 PM

In the case of the SIG P320/M17, I believe the ATF doesn't even consider the frame to be the firearm, but the modular trigger unit is. The frame is just a plastic housing for the part that is actually regulated.

Technically the trigger unit is the frame (the piece that the fire control parts actually mount to) and what would be the frame on most other handguns is just a grip

"The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly,
flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
-Chicago Times review of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address.