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Question on firearms in the home


1Wolf

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This isn't really a "carry" question but more of a general Illinois firearm question.

 

I'm asking this on behalf of a friend/co-worker of mine whose son will be purchasing his first firearm. My friend is a mother of 4 children. One is 21 and the others are all under 18. She is not comfortable with firearms but does not have ethical or political issues with them. She's just one of those folks who figures that if you like them...great...but she just doesn't like them. However, her son is interested in purchasing his first firearm (handgun) and he lives with his mother and the other kids.

 

Her son is a smart and mature kid. I've met him myself and I have no doubts he'll be one of the "good guys" when it comes to firearm ownership. He received his FOID. He'll be taking an NRA Basic Pistol class to get started. He's also researching safes and security of the firearm. At this point he is not interested in obtaining a CCL, only learning and target shooting.

 

The question is...

 

His mother asked me whether there was anything she should be concerned about regarding laws and firearms in her home, and the other young children. Her son does have a FOID, does my friend need to get a FOID or anything because she is the homeowner? Is there any other places that she could get into trouble if her son has a firearm in the home and he is the only one with a FOID? If her son is not home, my friend isn't breaking the law by having a firearm in the home without a FOID holder present is she?

 

That is the part I'm unfamiliar with as the only people that live in my own home are adults and my wife and I don't have any children. So I'm not sure how to advise my friend and thought I'd ask you guys.

 

My own recollection was that as long as her son's residence was that home, then he was the only one who needed to have a FOID. As long as he lived there then it was fine, but if he moved and continued to store his firearm there then my friend (the mother) would have to have a FOID as well.

 

Does this sound correct to you?

 

Are there any issues I should forward along to her? (Aside from the obvious on securing the firearm in a home with children).

 

Thanks!

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I would suggest she gets a FOID regardless of any plans to own or shoot a firearm if there is one in the residence. For $10 better to have and not need. When he is not there does she have access to the firearm?

 

As for legislation, the one thing I can think of is this

 

(720 ILCS 5/24-9)

Sec. 24-9. Firearms; Child Protection.

(a) Except as provided in subsection ©, it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is:

(1) secured by a device or mechanism, other than the

firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or

(2) placed in a securely locked box or container; or

(3) placed in some other location that a reasonable

person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.

(B) Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

© Subsection (a) does not apply:

(1) if the minor under 14 years of age gains access

to a firearm and uses it in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another; or

(2) to any firearm obtained by a minor under the age

of 14 because of an unlawful entry of the premises by the minor or another person.

(d) For the purposes of this Section, "firearm" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 1.1 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.

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I would suggest she gets a FOID regardless of any plans to own or shoot a firearm if there is one in the residence. For $10 better to have and not need. When he is not there does she have access to the firearm?

 

As for legislation, the one thing I can think of is this

 

(720 ILCS 5/24-9)

Sec. 24-9. Firearms; Child Protection.

(a) Except as provided in subsection ©, it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is:

(1) secured by a device or mechanism, other than the

firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or

(2) placed in a securely locked box or container; or

(3) placed in some other location that a reasonable

person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.

( :cool: Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

© Subsection (a) does not apply:

(1) if the minor under 14 years of age gains access

to a firearm and uses it in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another; or

(2) to any firearm obtained by a minor under the age

of 14 because of an unlawful entry of the premises by the minor or another person.

(d) For the purposes of this Section, "firearm" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 1.1 of the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.

That's just great. Lock them away from those under 14 or be guilty of a crime but if they gain access and use them in self defense of defense of another, it's all ok. It's a stupid law and the writers knew it.

 

( :cool: Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

© Subsection (a) does not apply:

(1) if the minor under 14 years of age gains access

 

to a firearm and uses it in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another; or
(2) to any firearm obtained by a minor under the age

 

of 14 because of an unlawful entry of the premises by the minor or another person.
edit for spelling
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I have my own opinions of what constitutes a good safe. Everybody here will probably have a different opinion.

 

What I will add, however, is that the purpose of a consumer-grade safe is ONLY to keep the contents away from curious, little fingers when they're not being supervised. They do not keep their contents secure from determined thieves. ($20 worth of power tools will cut through any safe that you can buy for less than $10k in less than 15 minutes.) They do not preserve their contents in the case of fire, no matter what marketing hype is attached to them.

 

As the others above have said, nobody else needs to do anything, like getting additional FOIDs in the family. It doesn't hurt. It may help.

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I have my own opinions of what constitutes a good safe. Everybody here will probably have a different opinion.

 

What I will add, however, is that the purpose of a consumer-grade safe is ONLY to keep the contents away from curious, little fingers when they're not being supervised. They do not keep their contents secure from determined thieves. ($20 worth of power tools will cut through any safe that you can buy for less than $10k in less than 15 minutes.) They do not preserve their contents in the case of fire, no matter what marketing hype is attached to them.

 

As the others above have said, nobody else needs to do anything, like getting additional FOIDs in the family. It doesn't hurt. It may help.

 

If you can direct me where to buy $20 power tools that can cut into a safe, please let me know. I'm always on the lookout for good deals on tools and that sounds really amazing!!!

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I would suggest she gets a FOID regardless of any plans to own or shoot a firearm if there is one in the residence. For $10 better to have and not need. When he is not there does she have access to the firearm?

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. My wife has never shot a gun and has no interest in shooting a gun. But, she has a FOID for exactly the reasons discussed.

 

I don't know about now, but I actually boarded an airplane at O'hare using only a FOID as ID. This was after 911. My driver's license was with the law givers. So, it can serve as a legitimate form of state ID in some instances. A nice thing to have, particularly if you don't have a passport.

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If you can direct me where to buy $20 power tools that can cut into a safe, please let me know. I'm always on the lookout for good deals on tools and that sounds really amazing!!!

Get the cheapest grinder at Home Depot or Lowe's. It's good enough to do the job.

 

 

 

//www.walmart.com/ip/SentrySafe-0-6-cu-ft-Security-Fire-File-Safe-1170/6340081

 

I had this safe at one time. It took me 7 min. to get in it with a claw hammer and a medium size screwdriver.

 

//www.walmart.com/ip/SentrySafe-0-6-cu-ft-Security-Fire-File-Safe-1170/6340081

 

Well I don't know what I'm doing wrong but can't get the link to work. It is the 0.6 Cubic foot file safe....

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I have my own opinions of what constitutes a good safe. Everybody here will probably have a different opinion.

 

What I will add, however, is that the purpose of a consumer-grade safe is ONLY to keep the contents away from curious, little fingers when they're not being supervised. They do not keep their contents secure from determined thieves. ($20 worth of power tools will cut through any safe that you can buy for less than $10k in less than 15 minutes.) They do not preserve their contents in the case of fire, no matter what marketing hype is attached to them.

 

As the others above have said, nobody else needs to do anything, like getting additional FOIDs in the family. It doesn't hurt. It may help.

 

If you can direct me where to buy $20 power tools that can cut into a safe, please let me know. I'm always on the lookout for good deals on tools and that sounds really amazing!!!

 

If you make it to $25 you can get it done from Walmart, I didn't say it would be quick but a sawzall with a metal blade...

 

And the real answer is... (yes everyone would be best) but if he's not home it should be locked up even in a desk drawer anything resembling a real attempt to keep it out of a hands of a child and no-one else needs spit.

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I would suggest she gets a FOID regardless of any plans to own or shoot a firearm if there is one in the residence. For $10 better to have and not need. When he is not there does she have access to the firearm?

 

Absolutely agree with this. My wife has never shot a gun and has no interest in shooting a gun. But, she has a FOID for exactly the reasons discussed.

I don't know about now, but I actually boarded an airplane at O'hare using only a FOID as ID. This was after 911. My driver's license was with the law givers. So, it can serve as a legitimate form of state ID in some instances. A nice thing to have, particularly if you don't have a passport.

My wife boarded with a costco credit card last year when she left her ID in something she checked.

 

Anyways, she absolutely doesn't need a foid, but it wouldn't hurt either.

 

What she needs more is to go to the range once with her son to understand what a gun is and shoot it once. I've met very few middle ground people who shoot once and don't then move into the pro gun camp, regardless of whether they then like to shoot.

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To be legal, her son's FOID will suffice. But when he's not in direct control of the firearm, he must put it in a locked drawer or just put a padlock on the gun case. That is the minimal required standard in the above scenario (if children < 14 in the home).

 

Everyone (or at least the mom) getting FOID cards would be a good thing, but not absolutely required.

A safe / lockbox would be a good thing, but not required.

 

As long as the mom isn't a "prohibited person", her being home alone with the gun does not break any laws. Being in the same house as a gun is not the same as "possession"... The rules against "having access" revolve mostly around prohibited persons (e.g. felons). But even if the mom was a felon, him putting it in a locked drawer and having the only key would meet the minimum standard.

 

IANAL and this isn't legal advice. :)

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I would suggest she gets a FOID regardless of any plans to own or shoot a firearm if there is one in the residence. For $10 better to have and not need. When he is not there does she have access to the firearm?

Absolutely agree with this. My wife has never shot a gun and has no interest in shooting a gun. But, she has a FOID for exactly the reasons discussed.

I don't know about now, but I actually boarded an airplane at O'hare using only a FOID as ID. This was after 911. My driver's license was with the law givers. So, it can serve as a legitimate form of state ID in some instances. A nice thing to have, particularly if you don't have a passport.

My wife boarded with a costco credit card last year when she left her ID in something she checked.

 

Anyways, she absolutely doesn't need a foid, but it wouldn't hurt either.

 

What she needs more is to go to the range once with her son to understand what a gun is and shoot it once. I've met very few middle ground people who shoot once and don't then move into the pro gun camp, regardless of whether they then like to shoot.

 

I can't believe she was able to board with a Costco credit card. I mean, I know it has a photo on it, but it's not state-issued.

 

My wife does need a FOID. If there's a gun in my car and she takes my car somewhere, she'd "transporting".

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One other reason your spouse and kids should have a FOID as Illinois residents is if you expire, they can immediatly take possession of your guns and ammunition without being in violation or having to worry about transfering them to somoene who does have a FOID.

 

My wife and son have had their FOID cards for years for this reason (and the wishful thinking the wife will take up shooting). Actually, she recently completed her training, but isn't totally sure how much she wants to shoot. My son, he's totally onboard and also a life NRA member at 16!! But I digress. I highly suggest a FOID for everyone in your household.

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