CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:29 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:29 PM I heard of one case, I think in Southern Illinois, where a man was at the shooting range and his car broke down so he took all his guns on a train to get home and got busted for carrying on public transportation. What was the outcome of the case? I know there was another case where a judge dropped his gun in the court house and he got off scott free and later the law was changed to allow judges to carry in a court house. Its now legal for judges to CC in court! Are there any other cases of interest like this? Recently a woman was raped in a Cook County Forest Preserve. Secluded areas like this are predator zones. I was taught in my original CCL class that the trails through the forest are legal to carry just like trails through the parks and beaches in Chicago are legal to carry but some seem to interpret the law differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:35 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:35 PM You should ask your instructor for a refund if he told you it's ok to carry in Cook County forest preserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:40 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 01:40 PM The train case was Metra near Chicago. http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=70196 Source for law changed to allow Judge carry?Tabled in 2018A different version back to rules in March 2019 http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=248&GAID=15&DocTypeID=HB&LegId=114187&SessionID=108&GA=101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 04:39 PM Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 04:39 PM You should ask your instructor for a refund if he told you it's ok to carry in Cook County forest preserves.I disagree with you. The Cook County Forest is off limits but not the TRAILS that go through it to a public way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted June 14, 2019 at 05:37 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 05:37 PM Is an ignorant law a viable defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:02 PM Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:02 PM A trail IS A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY so you can interpret the law any way you wish. I will continue to carry on the trails of the Chicago beaches and the Cook County Forest Preserves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:08 PM Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:08 PM Also just because a cop told you what he thinks the law is doesn't make it so. I can argue my point in court should it ever come to that. Like I said a trail is a public right of way. It is mentioned in regards to the Chicago Bike Trails and it applies to the Cook County Forest also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:12 PM Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:12 PM In addition, Mick, I do not believe I would lose my CCL or my FOID for one mistake if it was proven to be a violation. Ambiguous laws can not be enforced in court anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstrom99 Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:51 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 08:51 PM I'm with Mick and the others on this one. ANYWHERE (outside your car) in the Cook County Forest Preserves is prohibited. But you can do as you wish anyway, since you don't like our answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 14, 2019 at 09:18 PM Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 09:18 PM The exception for trails on public parks is in 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(13), which discusses parks. Note that trails are only excepted if only part of the trail goes through the park. If the entirety of the trail is within the park, carry is still prohibited. The prohibition of carry in Cook County Forest Preserves is in 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(14), which lists no exceptions. I'm not going to encourage anyone to break the law to see the consequences. If you violate the FCCA twice, the penalty can include a suspension of your CCL. If you violate the FCCA three times, the penalty includes a lifetime revocation of your CCL. You can keep your FOID, because you have to commit a felony or domestic violence to lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 14, 2019 at 09:52 PM Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 at 09:52 PM The exemption is for a public right of way that crosses through or touches the Forest. It not that complicated. A public right of way is a trail. Look in the dictionary. It says "A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted June 15, 2019 at 12:12 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 12:12 AM Just my opinion, but the exemption referenced in post #14 is valid IF there are public trails that pass completely through the forest preserve. I'm nowhere near Cook county, though, and am not at all familiar with the forest preserve, hence the "if." But if you can be on a public trail that both enters and exits the preserve, allowing you to travel through the preserve, then I believe the exemption would apply. Note that the trail system in Madison county has essentially the same rule on their website, though it holds no legal value, because they are public trails that interconnect throughout the county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:15 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:15 AM This is why I never carry in CCFPD with my CCL. This is where your fishing license and pole carry more weight. You can't be charged under CCL if you aren't carrying under the CCL law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:22 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:22 AM What would you be charged with if carrying in CCFPD, and you were not in possession of a CCL at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:30 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:30 AM What would you be charged with if carrying in CCFPD, and you were not in possession of a CCL at the time? If you have no criminal intent, I believe that would be UUW (a Class A misdemeanor) the same as if you were carrying most anywhere else without a CCL. So I guess if you carry all the time with no CCL and you're worried there would be enhanced penalties for carrying in a CC Forest Preserve, rest easy and proceed as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:33 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:33 AM Do you have a specific statute, or are you just speculating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:54 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 01:54 AM Do you have a specific statute, or are you just speculating? 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) is UUW. There's no mention of CC Forest Preserves in that statute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:19 AM Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:19 AM I believe that the statute states that the exemption applies to the long worded law which bans Chicago Parks and Cook County Forest Preserves but allows carrying on a public way which crosses or touches these restricted areas. The Chicago Park District owns the lakefront bike trails and Cook County Forest Preserve owns the trails through the forest but so what? We are talking about the exemption for trails which are a public way and attached to a public street. . I guess we will never know until a case comes to trial but if one woman can avoid being raped by listening to my interpretation that would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:29 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:29 AM 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) is UUW. There's no mention of CC Forest Preserves in that statute.720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) 1 deals with bludgeons and knuckles and such. Can you be more specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:38 AM Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:38 AM I was watching the Illinois General Assembly when they passed the CCL law and I don't think there was any intent in the law to ban trails. That's why they put that public way clause in. Brandon Phelps, the man who wrote the Concealed Carry law mentioned this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:48 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:48 AM 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) is UUW. There's no mention of CC Forest Preserves in that statute. 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) 1 deals with bludgeons and knuckles and such. Can you be more specific? Carries or possesses ... concealed on or about his person ... any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, ... 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a) has more than one subsection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:04 AM Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:04 AM I guess at issue is the "subsection" The law says "A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses ANY OF THE PREMISES (Parks and Forest Preserves) UNDER SUBSECTION (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law." I think the prohibited areas are all under the same section in the Statute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:13 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:13 AM Chicago handgunner is correct. If the path or trail enters from outside the forest preserve and continues through the forest preserve exiting at a different location you can carry as long as you stick to that path. This would apply to roadways, highways, bike paths or sidewalks going through the preserve. It would not include those paths or trails that are contained entirely within the Cook County Forest preserve. ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:15 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:15 AM I'm just curious which statute I would be charged with if carrying in CCFPD without a CCL. Whoever writes the ticket would have to be specific as to which statute to charge me under, otherwise I walk. 24-1 isn't good enough because I don't manufacture firearms, etc. So, what are you charging me with? There had to be a law to break if you are going to charge me with breaking the law. Otherwise, what law did I break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 15, 2019 at 06:56 AM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 06:56 AM ... 24-1 isn't good enough because I don't manufacture firearms, etc.... Where are you getting the idea that 720 ILCS 5/24-1 UUW is only about manufacturing firearms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:06 PM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:06 PM ...Can you show me where © A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection ( a ), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.SAYS:(Parks and Forest Preserves) because I cannot find it....It doesn't need to specify parks and forest preserves because it creates an exception to all of the prohibitions listed in (a), among others. ...(430 ILCS 66/65)(23)© A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection ( a ), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law does not apply because[/size] (430 ILCS 66/65) Sec. 65. Prohibited areas. (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District could not be any clearer and specifically spells out the law regarding Cook County Forest Preserves.[/font] You're arguing that the prohibition on carry in (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District cannot be part of the exceptions created in ( b ) and ( c ) simply because the preserves are included in the list of prohibited locations. If that were an accurate reading, it would act to negate the entirety of the exceptions created in ( b ) and ( c ) for all prohibited locations simply because they are also in the prohibited list. It turns ( b ) and ( c ) into surplusage - meaningless words that are not part of the law's effect. Yet, we know that the legislative intent can never be to include meaningless words in the law it created, that all the words in the law have meaning. In this case the meaning is to create an exception to the entirety of ( a ), (a-5) and (a-10) when the specified conditions are met by the licensee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:08 PM Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:08 PM I guess at issue is the "subsection" The law says "A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses ANY OF THE PREMISES (Parks and Forest Preserves) UNDER SUBSECTION (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law." I think the prohibited areas are all under the same section in the Statute. Chicago handgunner is correct. If the path or trail enters from outside the forest preserve and continues through the forest preserve exiting at a different location you can carry as long as you stick to that path. This would apply to roadways, highways, bike paths or sidewalks going through the preserve. It would not include those paths or trails that are contained entirely within the Cook County Forest preserve. ^ this *** CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER: guess and think are not the law and either is adding to Illinois Compiled Statutes. Can you show me where © A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.SAYS:(Parks and Forest Preserves) because I cannot find it."I think the prohibited areas are all under the same section in the Statute." WILL get you arrested or worse. Alright this my final post on this. I can enter Bemis Woods south (the Cook County Forest Preserve that is the farthest west to the south). If I take the path west it ends at the I-294. According to a gross misinterpretation of statute I would be in violation of 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(14). If I took the path east I could go to Brookfield Zoo through different Cook County Forest Preserves. I wouldn't be in violation of 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(14) because I would exit Bemis woods north and cross Wolf Rd into Salt Creek Woods. That's NOT how 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(14) is worded. It prohibits me from carrying the second I get out of my car because Firearms and other concealed weapons are not allowed on Forest Preserve District property, except by police officers or active-duty servicemen and women kicks in and is right on the Cook County Forest Preserve website. This isn't rocket science and (430 ILCS 66/65) Sec. 65. Prohibited areas. (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District is very clear as to this. The trails are real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District and therefore considered prohibited areas. It doesn't matter if they take you to the county line or the zoo, they are prohibited areas. That's why there is a simple quiz: Am I in a Cook County Forest Preserve?Am I carrying a handgun?If you answer yes to both you are breaking the law. 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(13) does not apply because you are not in a park and(430 ILCS 66/65)(23)© A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law does not apply because (430 ILCS 66/65) Sec. 65. Prohibited areas. (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District could not be any clearer and specifically spells out the law regarding Cook County Forest Preserves. Sorry Lockman, you are wrong. Call (708)771-1001 and they will tell you the exact same thing. NO FIREARMS in a Cook County Forest Preserve unless you are a LEO or on active duty. It doesn't matter where the trail begins or ends. It ends in the same place if you get caught breaking the law, in a squad car. You are just giving your interpretation of the law. It has NOT been tested in court. You are giving your opinion. I believe when it says the exemption for public right of way that touches or crosses any of the prohibited premises it is referring to all the prohibited zones which would include the Cook County Forest. . The section that lays out all the prohibited areas is one section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:08 PM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:08 PM How have CCL violations of gun free zones been adjudicated in Illinois? None in Cook County Forest Preserves, that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:14 PM Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 02:14 PM ...Can you show me where © A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection ( a ), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law. SAYS:(Parks and Forest Preserves) because I cannot find it. ... It doesn't need to specify parks and forest preserves because it creates an exception to all of the prohibitions listed in (a), among others. ...(430 ILCS 66/65)(23)© A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection ( a ), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law does not apply because[/size] (430 ILCS 66/65) Sec. 65. Prohibited areas. (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District could not be any clearer and specifically spells out the law regarding Cook County Forest Preserves.[/font] You're arguing that the prohibition on carry in (14) Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District cannot be part of the exceptions created in ( b ) and ( c ) simply because the preserves are included in the list of prohibited locations. If that were an accurate reading, it would act to negate the entirety of the exceptions created in ( b ) and ( c ) for all prohibited locations simply because they are also in the prohibited list. It turns ( b ) and ( c ) into surplusage - meaningless words that are not part of the law's effect. Yet, we know that the legislative intent can never be to include meaningless words in the law it created, that all the words in the law have meaning. In this case the meaning is to create an exception to the entirety of ( a ), (a-5) and (a-10) when the specified conditions are met by the licensee. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU MAUSERME. THIS IS WHAT THE LAW SAYS IN ENGLISH. I WOULD NOT SIT AT A PICNIC TABLE ON COOK COUNTY FOREST PRESERVE PROPERTY. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE LAW AS WRITTEN BUT I BELIEVE I AM LEGAL ON THE PUBLIC TRAILS THAT GO THROUGH THE COOK COUNTY FOREST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:12 PM Share Posted June 15, 2019 at 03:12 PM Where are you getting the idea that 720 ILCS 5/24-1 UUW is only about manufacturing firearms?I guess my point is that you would need to be charged for violating a specific statute, and it would have to be more specific than just 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a). What I'm trying to get at ultimately is "What would you be charged with if carrying without a CCL in Cook County Forest Preserves" Unless you were wearing a hood, and didn't enter any buildings, and no liquor is sold, and no admission is charged, the the only things you could be charged with are 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)4 or 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)10 or possibly 720 ILCS 5/24-1.6 Now, you can't be exempted by carrying under the FCCL as stated in 720 ILCS 5/24-2(a-5) because the FCCL specifically mentions Cook County Forest Preserves. But... If you are not carrying under FCCL and have a fishing license and gear, and there's a lake with fish, you are exempted by 720 ILCS 5/24-2 ( b.) (720 ILCS 5/24-2) Sec. 24-2. Exemptions. (b.) Subsections 24-1(a)(4) and 24-1(a)(10) and Section 24-1.6 do not apply to or affect any of the following: (3) Hunters, trappers or fishermen with a license or permit while engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing. Stupid speelchick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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