WARFACE Posted December 24, 2016 at 12:46 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 12:46 AM Could it happen? The vid mentions Constitutional Carry as well. 2017 is going to be an exciting year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:23 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:23 AM http://www.illinoiscarry.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2016/post-3474-0-05773100-1482542563.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just some guy Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:40 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:40 AM I'm undecided about this. On its' face it seems great. But....... I don't have to get a license to exercise any other constitutional right across state lines. Why is this one different. We would still be subject to a patch work of restrictions. I'm thinking just get a federal bill passed that has one set of rules and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted December 24, 2016 at 02:29 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 02:29 AM I'm not inclined to watch the video... Is this the same bill Rep Hudson announced 3 or 4 weeks ago he would introduce in the new session? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Six Gun Posted December 24, 2016 at 04:50 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 04:50 AM Constitutional carry is what we need. A federal law can be repealed or found unconstitutional, versus a constitutionally recognized right which has a much stronger basis. Also, with the federal government nationalizing CC laws, some states might have to enact stricter laws (I'm looking at you, AZ), while others like IL, will have to lessen theirs. Obviously, the Dems will suddenly find a new-found interest in "states' rights" to oppose such legislation. Still, national reciprocity would be a big step up from what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:27 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:27 AM Also, with the federal government nationalizing CC lawsNo one is proposing that the federal government "nationalize" concealed carry laws. Come on people. Why is simple recognition of licenses of non-residents such a difficult concept to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Six Gun Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:59 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:59 AM By passing legislation requiring every state to recognize a national standard for CC the federal government will be "nationalizing" CC reciprocity laws, individual states will have no say on the matter. That's the definition of "nationalization" for a law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 24, 2016 at 08:49 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 08:49 AM By passing legislation requiring every state to recognize a national standard for CC the federal government will be "nationalizing" CC reciprocity laws, individual states will have no say on the matter. That's the definition of "nationalization" for a law.There is no "national standard" proposed or included in the bill. It has no bearing on what happens within a state. It only applies to interstate travel, you know, part of that stuff that the federal government is there for. Here's the existing bill, I doubt next years version will differ substantively. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/986/text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 24, 2016 at 08:56 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 08:56 AM For all the paranoid types who think that doing something good means that it will be ok for the government to do something bad in the future, here's a newsflash for you: if there was the political will to do whatever bad thing, they'd do it, they don't need this kind of bill or anything else as a setup. There is absolutely no harm to come from this, none. It's pure win for gun rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted December 24, 2016 at 10:17 AM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 10:17 AM For all the paranoid types who think that doing something good means that it will be ok for the government to do something bad in the future, here's a newsflash for you: if there was the political will to do whatever bad thing, they'd do it, they don't need this kind of bill or anything else as a setup. There is absolutely no harm to come from this, none. It's pure win for gun rights.You mean like when Obama and both houses were all democrat majorities and Obamacare got rammed through without a single republican vote? Political will is pretty much the same thing as a single leader with a political majority. You'd think living in Illinois would have taught us this by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted December 24, 2016 at 12:50 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 12:50 PM I gotta go with Gamma. I see no evil here as long as it's just universal recognition. We fought for this here in Illinois. remember the Cook County carve out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:21 PM Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:21 PM I would just love to see Illinois get their nose rubbed in it and be forced to allow non-residents to carry. I would rather see us get Con carry and take away their little honey pot of cash that they get from selling us our Rights back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguy Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:35 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 01:35 PM I would just love to see Illinois get their nose rubbed in it and be forced to allow non-residents to carry. I would rather see us get Con carry and take away their little honey pot of cash that they get from selling us our Rights back. Me, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RINGKINGS Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:02 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:02 PM Also, with the federal government nationalizing CC lawsNo one is proposing that the federal government "nationalize" concealed carry laws. Come on people. Why is simple recognition of licenses of non-residents such a difficult concept to understand? have to agree with Gamma....... this is simple recognition of licenses across state boundaries... if passed alllicensed carriers will have to obey the individual laws of any state they are in..... also, it is NOT a National license so thenonsense of the Federal government being able to later take your license to carry away(at least in your individual state)is a fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:29 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:29 PM Any law can be changed; or in some cases have a limited time period, as in the case of the old assault weapons ban. I am for the concept of national carry. Laws are usually several paragraphs, even pages, long. What looks like a great bill by title and in paragraph 3 can become severely restrictive in paragraph 12. Then there is the possibility of amendments and riders. I think national carry bills should be approached with cautious optimism, and watched closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:36 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:36 PM I would just love to see Illinois get their nose rubbed in it and be forced to allow non-residents to carry.and Hawaii, California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Oregon, etc. Icing on the cake would be DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RINGKINGS Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:56 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 06:56 PM Any law can be changed; or in some cases have a limited time period, as in the case of the old assault weapons ban. I am for the concept of national carry. Laws are usually several paragraphs, even pages, long. What looks like a great bill by title and in paragraph 3 can become severely restrictive in paragraph 12. Then there is the possibility of amendments and riders. I think national carry bills should be approached with cautious optimism, and watched closely.the bill proposed is NOT a national carry bill........ it is a bill that proposes that states recognize a license to carry issuedby other states..... just like drivers licenses....... no one is proposing a national carry bill where the Federal government wouldhave the ability to give or take away any rights...... it is simply, a reciprocal agreement.Also, no one is proposing that states change their individual set of rules.... example; if state A says no carry in a place that servesalcohol then the carrier must obey that rule in that state regardless of what his home state license allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted December 24, 2016 at 07:52 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 07:52 PM I would just love to see Illinois get their nose rubbed in it and be forced to allow non-residents to carry.and Hawaii, California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Oregon, etc. Icing on the cake would be DC. Oregon is a shall issue state, though like Illinois they don't recognize any other states CCW . No guns signs have no force of law in Oregon, only places legislated as CPZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted December 24, 2016 at 09:12 PM Share Posted December 24, 2016 at 09:12 PM I would be happy to not be thrown in jail for having an unloaded gun in a locked case in my luggage anywhere in the U.S. and territories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 25, 2016 at 04:03 AM Share Posted December 25, 2016 at 04:03 AM I would be happy to not be thrown in jail for having a n un loaded gun in a locked case in my luggage holster anywhere in the U.S. and territories.Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkroenlein Posted December 25, 2016 at 04:34 AM Share Posted December 25, 2016 at 04:34 AM I have had concerns (and likely will in the future) about a "federal concealed carry bill." Those concerns are based on the belief that the wrong bill could "give" the federal government powers that it does not currently hold; that is the ability to set eligibility or license requirements that is currently held by the states (which is congruent with current court interpretation.) Of course my fear that once the fed had the reigns, both houses could flip and we'd have CA, NY, or NJ style carry laws. The bill being discussed, in its latest iteration at least, does not do that. It *appears* to establish a statutory right to carry based on state of residence eligibility and destination state laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted December 25, 2016 at 05:21 AM Share Posted December 25, 2016 at 05:21 AM Any law can be changed; or in some cases have a limited time period, as in the case of the old assault weapons ban. I am for the concept of national carry. Laws are usually several paragraphs, even pages, long. What looks like a great bill by title and in paragraph 3 can become severely restrictive in paragraph 12. Then there is the possibility of amendments and riders. I think national carry bills should be approached with cautious optimism, and watched closely.the bill proposed is NOT a national carry bill........ it is a bill that proposes that states recognize a license to carry issuedby other states..... just like drivers licenses....... no one is proposing a national carry bill where the Federal government wouldhave the ability to give or take away any rights...... it is simply, a reciprocal agreement.Also, no one is proposing that states change their individual set of rules.... example; if state A says no carry in a place that servesalcohol then the carrier must obey that rule in that state regardless of what his home state license allows. I was not referring to any specific bill. In your example, if all states voluntarily recognize reciprocity with all other states, then there is no reason for input by the federal government. If the federal government mandates there be reciprocity among all states, that requires a federal law for enforcement or a Supreme Court decision for enforcement. A Congressional resolution would not accomplish that. Some states recognize only residential licenses of other states. Some of us in Illinois have previously obtained a Florida or Utah CCW before the FCCL passed here. Michigan does not recognize those nonresident licenses held by Illinois residents. I believe a few states may license 18 year olds, other states may not recognize that license until the holder reaches 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted December 25, 2016 at 08:24 AM Share Posted December 25, 2016 at 08:24 AM I believe a few states may license 18 year olds, other states may not recognize that license until the holder reaches 21.Yes they do, neighboring Indiana being one of them. Missouri issues to 18 year olds in the armed forces, or 19 otherwise. Fun fact, an Illinois resident 18 year old can't even get a FOID without a FOID eligible parent signing off, but they can get a Maine carry permit and travel to Indiana or Missouri and concealed carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted December 25, 2016 at 05:24 PM Share Posted December 25, 2016 at 05:24 PM Any federal legislation on carry should be limited recognition of a fundamental right and the protection thereof. A provision prohibiting prosecution within the scope of lawful exercise of the right and violations by state or state actors shall not benefit from immunity. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTriple Posted December 26, 2016 at 08:29 PM Share Posted December 26, 2016 at 08:29 PM The focus shouldn't be, and isn't going to be, on the establishment of a federal licensing/permitting scheme, the focus will be on forcing all states to recognize the permits of non-residents, much like LEOSA and FOPA forced states to allow non-residents to carry (for police) or transport (for civilians) through states that normally wouldn't allow them to. It won't mean that a resident of Brooklyn will suddenly be able to carry in NYC, but it'll mean that the tourist visiting from Georgia will be able to carry in Times Square without violating the law. And that's the unintentional beauty of the law: it creates a situation where those living in restrictive may-issue states could conceivably sue on the grounds of unequal treatment under the law. This could help end may issue in this country once and for all, while also driving yet another nail into the gun control movement's coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyb82 Posted December 29, 2016 at 02:35 PM Share Posted December 29, 2016 at 02:35 PM What needs to happen here is not national reciprocity but a statute, passed by Congress and signed into law by the President, snatching away the states' jurisdiction over carriage of loaded firearms in public. Telling them that they cannot restrict issuance of licenses based on subjective criteria such as "justifiable need." Make it all shall issue and that's bare minimum. What I would love to see is a Supreme Court ruling that carriage of firearms in public is a protected right and any statute or regulation burdening that right is per se unconstitutional. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade13 Posted January 4, 2017 at 03:33 AM Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 03:33 AM GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congresshttp://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/ https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed%20Carry%20Reciprocity%20Act%20of%202017.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 4, 2017 at 08:01 PM Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 08:01 PM GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congresshttp://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/ https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed%20Carry%20Reciprocity%20Act%20of%202017.pdf If you read this bill closely, it appears to allow someone to obtain a license from any state (including one that is not your state of residence) and to carry in any other state with that license. So an Illinois resident could get a Utah or Florida license instead of the Illinois CCL and carry anywhere in the country--including in Illinois. It would allow residents of may-issue states to carry in their own states, too, where they would be otherwise prohibited (here's looking at you, New Jersey). "a person... who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides... may possess or carry... in any State that..." (paraphrasing for brevity) issues licenses to its residents or has permitless carry policies in place. The "or" threw me off on first read, but I believe it separates the clauses "license... pursuant to the law of a State" and the "entitled to carry... in the state in which the person resides." So either condition fulfills the requirement under this law. In its current form this isn't going to be as easy to pass as some people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted January 4, 2017 at 08:14 PM Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 08:14 PM GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congresshttp://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/ https://hudson.house.gov/uploads/Concealed%20Carry%20Reciprocity%20Act%20of%202017.pdf If you read this bill closely, it appears to allow someone to obtain a license from any state (including one that is not your state of residence) and to carry in any other state with that license. So an Illinois resident could get a Utah or Florida license instead of the Illinois CCL and carry anywhere in the country--including in Illinois. It would allow residents of may-issue states to carry in their own states, too, where they would be otherwise prohibited (here's looking at you, New Jersey). "a person... who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides... may possess or carry... in any State that..." (paraphrasing for brevity) issues licenses to its residents or has permitless carry policies in place. The "or" threw me off on first read, but I believe it separates the clauses "license... pursuant to the law of a State" and the "entitled to carry... in the state in which the person resides." So either condition fulfills the requirement under this law. In its current form this isn't going to be as easy to pass as some people believe. Yes, but as it's currently written makes much more sense than the previous version. It also includes language that defines a handgun as including the magazine and ammo, essentially removing capacity limits and ammo restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted January 4, 2017 at 09:13 PM Share Posted January 4, 2017 at 09:13 PM "permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, " Basically people in CA would still be screwed since most of them can't get a carry license and CA doesn't accept any other states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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