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Fragmenting \ frangible ammo


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#1 Gator4838

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 02:38 PM

commonly used for shooting steel.,now,several manufacturers are selling for self defense.one larger wound channel,or several smaller ones,without the risk of over penetration.it's not for me,but someone must be buying it.any thoughts.

#2 billzfx4

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 02:55 PM

I really believe that most of it is just gimmick ammo. 

I'll stick with HST's.


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#3 Gator4838

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 03:24 PM

I really believe that most of it is just gimmick ammo. 
I'll stick with HST's.

I agree,I look no further than hst,s or gold dots.but having said that,I am unaware of fragmenting ballistics,does le or the military use them.

#4 Euler

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 04:56 PM

I really believe that most of it is just gimmick ammo. 
I'll stick with HST's.


Yup. RIP from G2 is the classic example of useless, if that's what the OP meant.
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#5 ragsbo

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 05:22 PM

I have dealt with frangible ammo at my old job and for the most part, you could not give me the stuff! We had some for our 38/357 revolvers years ago and had several squid loads where the round never left the barrel! We pitched it. We had some in 40 caliber for our Glocks that functioned okay but did not get the greatest accuracy compared to ball or hollowpoint ammo. ALSO when we shot it, several times it did not "turn to dust" as advertised, even on steel. We would pick up the round off the ground and it looked like it never was shot. We also had some for the M16. Functioned okay and about normal accuracy. Did not shoot steel with it. One thing about shooting it in the semi autos, it is extremely dirty! It will fowl a weapon quickly! Don't know why but you had to clean them half as quick as with regular ammo.

 

If you use it for defense, I figure it would do no better than a  ball round. I would NOT expect it to "dust" if it hit a bone.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

edit to add; NO, I do not remember the brand we used, sorry!


Edited by ragsbo, 29 October 2019 - 05:22 PM.


#6 TRJ

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 12:56 PM

 

I really believe that most of it is just gimmick ammo. 
I'll stick with HST's.


Yup. RIP from G2 is the classic example of useless, if that's what the OP meant.

 

Actually I think he meant DRT fragmenting ammo.  https://drtammo.com/self-defense/

 

I say stick with HST or RA9T or Gold Dots



#7 RS1

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 02:46 PM

I shot 600 rounds of the lead-free frangible stuff in 9mm for a training once. Worked fine on paper and steel but it was dirty and the only 3 no-fires I have ever had with my P229 were that day. Granted they were all during the last 100 or so rounds, may have been some grime issues.

Would buy for steel. Would not buy for self defense. There are so many good SD loads out there, why change until there is solid evidence?

#8 Gator4838

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 02:57 PM

I really believe that most of it is just gimmick ammo. 
I'll stick with HST's.


Yup. RIP from G2 is the classic example of useless, if that's what the OP meant.
Actually I think he meant DRT fragmenting ammo.  https://drtammo.com/self-defense/
 
I say stick with HST or RA9T or Gold Dots
really,any self defense ammo that fragments on impact.drt,rip,and others,have some SEXY descriptions on their intended use and performance.

#9 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 06:26 PM

I tested the DRT ammo during my pig carcass tests, which I found to be really inconsistent depending on where they hit. Due to the speed of the projectile, and the "splash" of the frangible sintered powder, if it hits purely soft tissue, like the abdomen, it makes a nasty, large wound that is filled with jellied tissue and powdered metal. It probably won't be an instant kill, but I can imagine it would be extremely painful and almost impossible to survive . . . in the long term. That would be a nightmare for a trauma surgeon to try to deal with. Probably a slow, painful death but I don't expect it would likely be an instant stop. The penetration isn't sufficient to say, hit the spine.

 

Now, against ribs, sternums, scapulas, and pelvises, the round performs very poorly. Penetration through bone is not good at all, and the bone generally ends up being peppered with slivers of jacket and a powdering of metal among a jellied mass of overlying tissue. Again, probably extremely painful and likely very difficult to surgically repair, but most likely not an instant stop.

 

These were the most difficult to dissect and measure a wound channel in actual flesh, because of that sintered powder and the jellifying of the flesh from having it blast through the meat.

 

Now, regarding the G2 RIP rounds in pig carcasses, my results show the "trocars" almost never penetrate even rib bones, and the main body of the round, which is less than half the weight of any similar caliber projectile, usually creates only a very small, puncture-like wound cavity, and often fails to go through any large bone like a leg or scapula. Even that wound is considerably smaller than even a FMJ round of the same caliber. In an abdominal wound that doesn't hit ribs, they are more effective, but still result in less total tissue damage than just about every other handgun round. Even the multiple small wound paths from the trocars are not that damaging. A .410 with a light birdshot load does more damage.
 
Of all of the dedicated defensive ammunition that I have tested, the G2 RIP performs close to poorest in actual muscle and bone.

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