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#1 mauserme

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:13 PM

As part of our goal to foster Second Amendment rights for as many residents as possible, Illinois Carry provides space for instructors to advertise classes offering all levels of training. We understand the time and dedication instructors devote to their students , and the sometimes competitive nature of the training industry that results, yet our desire is to provide a listing of training opportunities in a non-competitive, cooperative atmosphere.

Instructors are welcome to post an occasional class or so free of charge. However, if you would like to post classes more frequently, we ask that you help support the site by sponsoring a banner ad at the top of the forum pages. Information on cost and details concerning the banner can be found here.


When posting classes, we encourage our instructor members to adhere to a few guidelines we feel will provide the greatest benefit to our end users - Illinois Carry members/guests and the residents of the State of Illinois:

> When space allows include the date, location, and type of training in the topic title. Registration deadlines should be mentioned in the opening post.

> Describe the training and cost as accurately and completely as possible, including range fees.

> Include an overview of the training environment - whether indoor or out, restroom facilities, climate control, shelter from inclement weather, class size and number of instructors.

> Include a description of any fringe benefits such as use of the instructor's firearms, ammunition availability, hors d'oeuvres , etc.

> Include a list of items the prospective student must supply. This might include their own firearm and ammunition, food, writing material, etc.

> Avoid drawing comparisons to training offered by other instructors, or statements implying a particular trainer or training regimen is better than that offered by others.

> Avoid posting in another trainer's topic, statements meant to draw attention away from that topic, or toward your own, by inference to cost, quality, or completeness of the class being offered or the amenities included.

> Be available for questions, both within the topic you started and by PM or email.



When considering a class, we ask prospective students to keep the following in mind:

> Space to post training ads is a courtesy extended to our members with the goal of enhancing your rights. We do not endorse any instructor over another, nor can we guarantee the quality of accuracy of the training provided.

> Instructors will approach their training from different points of view, some to accomplish licensing as painlessly as possible, others to provide a full tactical experience. Define your goals and choose among the classes that best meet them.

> Instructors and students will, at times, experience personality conflicts. Spend some time getting to know your prospective instructor through their earlier posts in all areas of the forum, the way they interact with others, and the way they interact with you.

> Ask questions before you commit to a class. Your best training experience will come from expectations that are fully met.

> Compare and contrast the class offerings before making a final determination. Allow others to do the same by avoiding sharing your comparisons within the class advertisements.

> Various organizations and agencies are available to report any wrongdoing or unfair treatment. Illinois Carry can assist in identifying the correct organization if the need arises.


Please let any of the moderators know if you have any questions or concerns.
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#2 Rockdiver

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 06:53 PM

Very good info!

 

 

 

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#3 domin8

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 07:39 PM

Just a suggestion, but I think it'll be a win-win for instructors and IC. This is something I have seen on other forums, and done on the one I use to admin/moderate. How about setting up a subforum for instructors. Then, in that subforum each instructor/business who wishes to advertise courses can do so in their own section that they can moderate. IC could keep the banner ads going, but every instructor who pays for their own section also gets a banner ad. IC could also use this to permit non-instruction businesses, such as shooting ranges and manufacturers to do the same. I saw a growth in revenue, and most "Vendors" would stay and renew annually. Most vendors also offered discounts to forum members, but that was of their own choosing.
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#4 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 09:03 PM

I've thought about the idea of a vendor's area too. We have enough Illinois manufacturers that it would be worth considering. Out of state manufacturers, FFLs, holster makers, etc could be included too.

If we did that we'd have to figure out if instructors would stay under Training or move to the new location.
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#5 sirflyguy

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 06:54 AM

Good.  I like what I see.


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#6 NRApistol

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:10 AM

Good.  I like what I see.

Me too.



#7 DD123

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 07:24 AM

Just a suggestion, but I think it'll be a win-win for instructors and IC. This is something I have seen on other forums, and done on the one I use to admin/moderate. How about setting up a subforum for instructors. Then, in that subforum each instructor/business who wishes to advertise courses can do so in their own section that they can moderate. IC could keep the banner ads going, but every instructor who pays for their own section also gets a banner ad. IC could also use this to permit non-instruction businesses, such as shooting ranges and manufacturers to do the same. I saw a growth in revenue, and most "Vendors" would stay and renew annually. Most vendors also offered discounts to forum members, but that was of their own choosing.

That's how the forum I'm a mod at does it.  There's a completely separate vendor forum, each with their own sub-forum so they can post as many threads as they'd like.  

 

There are rules of course, many of which Mauserme covered.  We also made sure that members/users didn't rip on one vendor in favor of their BFF's business, more so if that vendor was a supporting vendor.  So we basically had a code of conduct for both parties.  

 

Mauserme or anyone of the IC staff, if you would like details on how we have that structured, please PM me and I can let you know how we did it.  It allowed our forum to not only function, but it also allowed us to give back to the members through giveaways, improve the site, etc.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#8 mauserme

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 10:34 AM

Let me give things a little thought.
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#9 headcase

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:32 PM

...Then, in that subforum each instructor/business who wishes to advertise courses can do so in their own section that they can moderate. ....

 

I understand the theory, but since I would not likely to be in a business subforum unless I was specifically researching something from that trainer, I would miss out on a lot of the posted classes that I see in the generic "Training" subforum.

 

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#10 DD123

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:56 PM

 

...Then, in that subforum each instructor/business who wishes to advertise courses can do so in their own section that they can moderate. ....

 

I understand the theory, but since I would not likely to be in a business subforum unless I was specifically researching something from that trainer, I would miss out on a lot of the posted classes that I see in the generic "Training" subforum.

 

SSDD

 

The way ours works is that there's a main vendor area where all of the posts from the subforums populates into, and if you want to see more posts from that particular vendor, you go directly into their subforum without having to weed through a bunch of other posts that don't interest you.  

 

I remember when I first joined this forum, I saw "training" and was like "cool, people will be sharing videos and anecdotes about firearm training" and then clicked on the forum and saw a bunch of posts that were basically ads.  The description of the training forum is:  

 
Training
Discuss training and upcoming competitions

 

 

 

I'm not trying to pick on any of the members here that own business's and have posted in this forum, but I think it would be far more beneficial for them all to have their own sub forum.  It will eliminate competing vendors from trolling their posts, and also prevent those who haven't supported the site from using it as their personal craigslist and have contributed exactly nothing to this forum or the members.  Most of the members who offer training here contribute a great deal to the forum and then there are those who have 40 posts, all of which are ads.  The forum where I'm a mod saw each supporting vendor begin to become more successful after instituting the separate vendor forum and sub forums.  Plus in the "new posts" or "timeline" whatever was posted in the separate vendor forums would populate right into those two headings depending on the forum settings.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#11 mauserme

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 02:13 PM

The nature of the Training forum did change a lot once our carry law was passed.

How would it work if someone knows the class they want - FCCL Licensing or Intro to Defensive Handgun for example - but doesn't know one instructor from another? Would individual, instructor subforums make finding that class more difficult?
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Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31)

#12 headcase

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 02:26 PM

How would it work if someone knows the class they want - FCCL Licensing or Intro to Defensive Handgun for example - but doesn't know one instructor from another? Would individual, instructor subforums make finding that class more difficult?

 

That was my thought, though DD123 did provide a possible solution, though I'm not sure how it is implemented on various forum software...

 

The way ours works is that there's a main vendor area where all of the posts from the subforums populates into, and if you want to see more posts from that particular vendor, you go directly into their subforum without having to weed through a bunch of other posts that don't interest you.  

 

SSDD


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---------------------------------------------


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#13 Rockdiver

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 03:07 PM

DD can you pm me the forum that you moderate, Id like to see the setup.
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#14 Molly B.

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 09:37 PM

DD can you pm me the forum that you moderate, Id like to see the setup.

 

 

I also would like to see it.


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#15 Rockdiver

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 05:44 AM

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.

As it sits, I see nothing broken with the current training forum, there is quite a bit of info there and it was a major vehicle for contacting and guiding new instructors in the first phases of FCCL, as well as NRA training updates. It is nowhere near conjested with ads, and the current format allows for easy to follow feedback on past course offerings, which is one of the major factors in new and lasting site members.

Vendor lists are for toys and tools.

IMHO

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#16 ming

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 09:32 AM

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.



 

AAABlackFlag? ;)


Edited by ming, 21 July 2015 - 09:46 AM.

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#17 DD123

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 09:40 AM

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.

As it sits, I see nothing broken with the current training forum, there is quite a bit of info there and it was a major vehicle for contacting and guiding new instructors in the first phases of FCCL, as well as NRA training updates. It is nowhere near conjested with ads, and the current format allows for easy to follow feedback on past course offerings, which is one of the major factors in new and lasting site members.

Vendor lists are for toys and tools.

IMHO

Rocco

All good points, but please don't take the forum I mentioned as the be all, end all of formats.  

 

There are many, many other great formats.  

 

An example of what could possibly work here is something along these lines, but depending on the capabilities of the forum software, may not be feasible.  

 

Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)

 

----> Subforum for Third Party Training

 

----------->CCW License Training

 

----------->Home Defense Training

 

----------->Tactical Long Gun Training

 

----------->Handgun Training

 

----------->Complete list of vendors and their own sub forum (within this section can be ABC CCW training, BCD Tactical Tactics, etc. and each has their own forum.  

 

There are endless ways to configure something like that, but there are three parties that need to be happy with the results:  the forum owners, the vendors/sponsors, and the general members.  Like most things, most people will be for the change while some will be against it.  

 

I'm not a sponsor/vendor so I just wanted to show that there are options out there if everyone who this affects wants something different or wants nothing at all to change.  

 

It doesn't really affect me in any way because I scroll past most stuff that doesn't interest me.....but I know the "buzzwords" and their meanings.  That might not be the case for someone who just got a CCL and has not idea what they need.  

 

I wish I had time to take some of the great courses that are offered by our various training vendors, but my schedule for the next couple of months doesn't give me free time to take a course or two and I've been dying to take a few from the members here....yours being one of them Rockdiver.  

 

Don't take my post as saying "ughhhhhhh you guys clogging up the forum with spam" because that's not the goal of the information I've provided.  I tend to look at things in an analytical way (I'm a slight introvert) and if I want home defense training, it would be far easier to go to a sub forum of vendors who offer such training, than it would be to scroll through trying to find something that might be what I'm looking for.  That's would be one of the benefits of having a format similar to the example I gave above in this post.  

 

I've been in sales and marketing for a long time and having information easy and quick to find is much more useful towards gaining more exposure.  If the CCL class I was in was any indication, the need for training for most people getting their licenses is high and most have pulled an old gun out of a drawer, maybe shot it once or twice over a period of 30 years, and have no clue as to which type of class they need but have a general idea of what they want to take.  

 

My goal with these posts has been to try and help everyone on here.....members....vendors....and forum owners.  If people don't agree with my ideas, that's cool too.  They're just ideas.  


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#18 Rockdiver

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:01 AM

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.

AAABlackFlag? ;)


Im not worried about me; as we approach 1000 FCCL students processed, as well as civilian courses available for defensive Carbine, Shotgun, Pistol and professionally administered Force on Force workshops ( all of which are set as an amazing value to the student) Black Flag's branding isn't going anywhere...no matter where it falls on the list. We aren't even discussing instructor development.

There are however many instructors who have contributed greatly to the accessability of training and keeping student costs competitive, thst would be disparetely impacted by this type of Vendor Casting. That would be unfortunate, and somewhat unfair given the purity of IC's mission.

Nothing is broken.

However.....

Perhaps a subforum in training for images or video of competition, training, or shooting could be quite fun!
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#19 Molly B.

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:05 AM

Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)

 

----> Subforum for Third Party Training

 

----------->CCW License Training

 

----------->Home Defense Training

 

----------->Tactical Long Gun Training

 

----------->Handgun Training

 

 

I do like this idea.  I think it would be helpful when searching for a particular type of training.  Opinions?


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#20 Rockdiver

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:08 AM

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.
As it sits, I see nothing broken with the current training forum, there is quite a bit of info there and it was a major vehicle for contacting and guiding new instructors in the first phases of FCCL, as well as NRA training updates. It is nowhere near conjested with ads, and the current format allows for easy to follow feedback on past course offerings, which is one of the major factors in new and lasting site members.
Vendor lists are for toys and tools.
IMHO
Rocco

All good points, but please don't take the forum I mentioned as the be all, end all of formats.  
 
There are many, many other great formats.  
 
An example of what could possibly work here is something along these lines, but depending on the capabilities of the forum software, may not be feasible.  
 
Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)
 
----> Subforum for Third Party Training
 
----------->CCW License Training
 
----------->Home Defense Training
 
----------->Tactical Long Gun Training
 
----------->Handgun Training
 
----------->Complete list of vendors and their own sub forum (within this section can be ABC CCW training, BCD Tactical Tactics, etc. and each has their own forum.  
 
There are endless ways to configure something like that, but there are three parties that need to be happy with the results:  the forum owners, the vendors/sponsors, and the general members.  Like most things, most people will be for the change while some will be against it.  
 
I'm not a sponsor/vendor so I just wanted to show that there are options out there if everyone who this affects wants something different or wants nothing at all to change.  
 
It doesn't really affect me in any way because I scroll past most stuff that doesn't interest me.....but I know the "buzzwords" and their meanings.  That might not be the case for someone who just got a CCL and has not idea what they need.  
 
I wish I had time to take some of the great courses that are offered by our various training vendors, but my schedule for the next couple of months doesn't give me free time to take a course or two and I've been dying to take a few from the members here....yours being one of them Rockdiver.  
 
Don't take my post as saying "ughhhhhhh you guys clogging up the forum with spam" because that's not the goal of the information I've provided.  I tend to look at things in an analytical way (I'm a slight introvert) and if I want home defense training, it would be far easier to go to a sub forum of vendors who offer such training, than it would be to scroll through trying to find something that might be what I'm looking for.  That's would be one of the benefits of having a format similar to the example I gave above in this post.  
 
I've been in sales and marketing for a long time and having information easy and quick to find is much more useful towards gaining more exposure.  If the CCL class I was in was any indication, the need for training for most people getting their licenses is high and most have pulled an old gun out of a drawer, maybe shot it once or twice over a period of 30 years, and have no clue as to which type of class they need but have a general idea of what they want to take.  
 
My goal with these posts has been to try and help everyone on here.....members....vendors....and forum owners.  If people don't agree with my ideas, that's cool too.  They're just ideas.


Please do not interpret my post as dismissive....or disrespectful.

I have put out quite a few instructors that post on IC, and I do not want them to be economically marginalized because they chose to incorporate as zulu supretactical... (a beating would suffice). I like the structured subforums for different types of training....that could definitely work.

Perhaps we could dedicate one to instructor development, where we could post up new industry standards, equipment, reshaped techniques and data management....could be pretty interesting...
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#21 Rockdiver

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:09 AM

Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)
 
----> Subforum for Third Party Training
 
----------->CCW License Training
 
----------->Home Defense Training
 
----------->Tactical Long Gun Training
 
----------->Handgun Training

 
I do like this idea.  I think it would be helpful when searching for a particular type of training.  Opinions?

I agree, THAT would actually be a great orginizational structure.
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#22 DD123

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 10:12 AM

 

 

Not exactly a viable construct for the participants here. Running through the last few pages of training forum, I there are plenty of AAR reviews, pictures, videos and discussions of new techniques and methods. A vendor list is only going to bias all searches to alphabetical logistics, leaving those at the bottom of the list left out. That is why Arfcom chose to not choose a similar approach with its IL HTF.
As it sits, I see nothing broken with the current training forum, there is quite a bit of info there and it was a major vehicle for contacting and guiding new instructors in the first phases of FCCL, as well as NRA training updates. It is nowhere near conjested with ads, and the current format allows for easy to follow feedback on past course offerings, which is one of the major factors in new and lasting site members.
Vendor lists are for toys and tools.
IMHO
Rocco

All good points, but please don't take the forum I mentioned as the be all, end all of formats.  
 
There are many, many other great formats.  
 
An example of what could possibly work here is something along these lines, but depending on the capabilities of the forum software, may not be feasible.  
 
Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)
 
----> Subforum for Third Party Training
 
----------->CCW License Training
 
----------->Home Defense Training
 
----------->Tactical Long Gun Training
 
----------->Handgun Training
 
----------->Complete list of vendors and their own sub forum (within this section can be ABC CCW training, BCD Tactical Tactics, etc. and each has their own forum.  
 
There are endless ways to configure something like that, but there are three parties that need to be happy with the results:  the forum owners, the vendors/sponsors, and the general members.  Like most things, most people will be for the change while some will be against it.  
 
I'm not a sponsor/vendor so I just wanted to show that there are options out there if everyone who this affects wants something different or wants nothing at all to change.  
 
It doesn't really affect me in any way because I scroll past most stuff that doesn't interest me.....but I know the "buzzwords" and their meanings.  That might not be the case for someone who just got a CCL and has not idea what they need.  
 
I wish I had time to take some of the great courses that are offered by our various training vendors, but my schedule for the next couple of months doesn't give me free time to take a course or two and I've been dying to take a few from the members here....yours being one of them Rockdiver.  
 
Don't take my post as saying "ughhhhhhh you guys clogging up the forum with spam" because that's not the goal of the information I've provided.  I tend to look at things in an analytical way (I'm a slight introvert) and if I want home defense training, it would be far easier to go to a sub forum of vendors who offer such training, than it would be to scroll through trying to find something that might be what I'm looking for.  That's would be one of the benefits of having a format similar to the example I gave above in this post.  
 
I've been in sales and marketing for a long time and having information easy and quick to find is much more useful towards gaining more exposure.  If the CCL class I was in was any indication, the need for training for most people getting their licenses is high and most have pulled an old gun out of a drawer, maybe shot it once or twice over a period of 30 years, and have no clue as to which type of class they need but have a general idea of what they want to take.  
 
My goal with these posts has been to try and help everyone on here.....members....vendors....and forum owners.  If people don't agree with my ideas, that's cool too.  They're just ideas.


Please do not interpret my post as dismissive....or disrespectful.

I have put out quite a few instructors that post on IC, and I do not want them to be economically marginalized because they chose to incorporate as zulu supretactical... (a beating would suffice). I like the structured subforums for different types of training....that could definitely work.

Perhaps we could dedicate one to instructor development, where we could post up new industry standards, equipment, reshaped techniques and data management....could be pretty interesting...

 

I didn't take it as dismissive or disrespectful.  Hopefully mine aren't interpreted that way either.  I generally don't attack or belittle people unless they deserve it, and there's usually little to no interpretation of my meaning when I do lol.  

 

I'm just trying to share what I know with everyone in hopes that you and training vendors, the forum owners, and the members are successful in your goals.  

 

I'm glad that some of ideas have begun to elicit some good discussions and additional ideas.   


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson


#23 domin8

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 04:43 PM

Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)
 
----> Subforum for Third Party Training
 
----------->CCW License Training
 
----------->Home Defense Training
 
----------->Tactical Long Gun Training
 
----------->Handgun Training
 

 
I do like this idea.  I think it would be helpful when searching for a particular type of training.  Opinions?

This could help unclutter that part of the forum.

Edited by domin8, 21 July 2015 - 04:44 PM.

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#24 Molly B.

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 02:10 PM

 

 

Main Training Forum (the one we're currently on)
 
----> Subforum for Third Party Training
 
----------->CCW License Training
 
----------->Home Defense Training
 
----------->Tactical Long Gun Training
 
----------->Handgun Training

 
I do like this idea.  I think it would be helpful when searching for a particular type of training.  Opinions?

I agree, THAT would actually be a great orginizational structure.

 

 

The new subforums have been set.  We'll see how it works out.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#25 sirflyguy

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 03:53 PM

Love it!


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#26 Rockdiver

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 02:15 PM

Mauser,

I like it.

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#27 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 02:40 PM

You should really thank Molly B.

I was out of town a few days and see she's been busy.
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#28 DD123

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 03:37 PM

I think it looks great!  It makes it much easier to find exactly the type of training you need.  

 

Thanks Molly and IC crew!


Force and intimidation are the tools of tyrants.  - Ron Paul

 

If Democrats quit shooting people, "gun violence" would go down by 80%.......

 

Taxation is theft

 

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson