Under review for 100 days, finally it changes

[Jmars0990]

Hi all. I applied for my concealed carry back in mid April. I was aware of the 30 day objection period and expected something may come up, but alas, 30 days came and went and my status never changed from under review. In fact I stayed under review until today, over 100 days after submitting my application. And now I'm under board review. I called my instructor and he suggested I call isp, as I haven't received a letter or email or any correspondence of any kind. He says if I'm not satisfied with what they tell me then my next step should be to contact the isra. Am I confused about the 30 day objection period? Those 30 days to object to me was up back in mid May. Has anyone else been under review that long only to be placed under board review? Could anybody offer any explanation as to what may be going on here? I was pretty psyched about being approved as 120 days is just right around the corner. Now I'm left disappointed. What should I do? What should I think? Any thoughts/help are appreciated. Thanks!

[Molly B.]

Unfortunately, the 30 day window for objections does not begin until after the background check is done and the application is then posted for agency access.

 

It is possible you will have a 9 - 12 mos. wait until the board reviews your application.

[Jmars0990]

But the statute says this:

 

If a law enforcement agency submits an objection within 30 days after the entry of an applicant into the database, the Department shall submit the objection and all information available to the Board under State and federal law related to the application to the Board within 10 days of completing all necessary background checks

 

Was my application not entered into the database the moment I submitted my application on the ISP website? From everything I've heard and read, including what my instructors taught was that that's the point when the clock starts.

[spec5]

Trust Molly B she knows what she's talking about.

[spaceman spiff]

Jmars, What county do you live in? If you don't mind me asking.

[Jmars0990]

Jmars, What county do you live in? If you don't mind me asking.

I live in Kane but my address registered with the sos at the time of submitting my application was cook unfortunately

 

Trust Molly B she knows what she's talking about.

In not saying she doesn't, it's just that the law seems pretty straight forward the way it's written and my instructors also seemed to know what they were talking about.

[BShawn]

IIRC (if I recall correctly) there's a (huge) backlog on board reviews right now...

[WARFACE]

Sorry to say it but all you can do is wait. It doesn't matter what the statute says, the state routinely ignores and violates their own laws at the expense of the citizens.....I mean...the people who pay the bills.

[Windermere]

Welcome to the forum. MollyB is correct. Unfortunately, you're looking at a year wait time until the board gets back to you. I applied in March 2015 and did not receive news from the board until February 2016. I then had to make a case that supported the fact that I was responsible enough to have a Ccl using court records and a heartfelt persuasion letter to the board. Recieved my Ccl in March 2016. One year wait. The backlog might be getting bigger due to more folks wanting Ccl.

[Jmars0990]

Sorry to say it but all you can do is wait. It doesn't matter what the statute says, the state routinely ignores and violates their own laws at the expense of the citizens.....I mean...the people who pay the bills.

So why doesn't somebody start a class action? Seems like a pretty slam dunk case to me. Why have these laws if the states just gonna do whatever they want? Isn't that what the isra is here for? To represent citizens whose rights are clearly being violated...

[Molly B.]

 

So why doesn't somebody start a class action? Seems like a pretty slam dunk case to me. Why have these laws if the states just gonna do whatever they want? Isn't that what the isra is here for? To represent citizens whose rights are clearly being violated...

 

 

Yes, that is what the ISRA and IllinoisCarry wants to do and tries to do whenever possible. However, to advance a class action lawsuit, it's important to have a case the attorneys believe has a good chance of rendering a ruling in our favor. A bad ruling that is not in our favor establishes bad precedent that hurts everyone. We did file a lawsuit just after the licensing act was implemented. At that time the review board denied applicants without informing them what agency filed the objection or for what reason. We won that case, Thomann vs ISP. With that ruling, the CCL Review Board, before denying an applicant, must provide the applicant with the information about who objected and specific details on which the objection is based and provide an opportunity for the applicant to respond in their own defense against the objection.

 

A couple reasons for not filing a case for the long delay in processing - by the time the case would be heard in court, the application will most likely be processed. Another reason is that the governing agency is given the authority to institute rules and regulations to implement the law. Those rules and regulations may or may not be specified in the statutes.

 

In this particular instance, when an application is filed, the ISP must determine if the applicant is eligible for the license, this is done by doing the background check. The applicant is not entered into the database available to the law enforcement agencies until the applicant is determined to be eligible. Sometimes the background check takes longer for some, add on the 30 day period after the applicant is entered into the database, and this leads to the delayed notice of going under board review.

 

It is very disappointing and very frustrating to be placed under board review, especially for someone is nearing 90 or 100 days and expecting to see positive results any day.

[All Pro]

Like me we live in a State that is as crooked as Route 83.I, applied Oct.1,2015 with prints, still waiting! That one little word placed in the law "Tolled" meaning they have all the time they want.

 

I have contacted the ISP 4 times by clicking on the link next to where you check you're status, they will send you back an answer buy its always the same, once the board takes control it is out of their hands.

 

Molly sent me an e mail in July 2016 that the board is working on objections from June-July of 2015.

 

The objections I hear come from Cook County Sheriff-Tom Dart.A Sheriff who has never spent one day in a squad car, never made one arrest and has never been in law enforcement ! He is and always has been a POLITICIAN !

 

So for you and the rest of us in this boat, we follow all the liberal rules, and still get Banged !

[Bubbacs]

Check the many threads here about being under board review.

Poke around and read some, others won't say this......

 

The class action you call for is also posted here many times.

 

As always Welcome to the Forums!

Great information here, best you'll ever find.

 

But some of it you'll need to search for, do I bit of reading.

Everything you've posted has been dredged extensively since the board review started.

A few peeps have more then 15 months of wait time under their belts.

And several have now gotten their CCL's.

 

Sit back, relax, pour yourself a cold one, grab some peanuts and do a little reading......before you know it you'll be back under normal review!

[Bubbacs]

Good Golly Molly YOU type fast..........

[Molly B.]

Good Golly Molly YOU type fast..........

 

 

LOL, I get a lot of practice. I've worn the letters off a lot of keyboards!

[Jmars0990]

Wow this state is ****** up.

 

So is there any precedent to the objections which the board upholds and those that they reject? I'm assuming that those of us that don't meet the minimum eligibility requirements are denied immediately and never see a board hearing, correct? So what exactly is the board looking for?

 

I haven't had any run ins with the law since a dui arrest nearly 5 years ago. Since then my only offense has been a ticket for open container. Is there any limit to how far back the board looks? Do they consider arrests where the case was later dismissed in the same way that they would an arrest that eventually led to a conviction or deferred adjudication? I have no violent history short of an arrest when I was in high school nearly ten years ago (good lord I'm getting old) for a domestic that was completely dismissed in court. Outside of that I have a conviction for a dui I received nearly five years ago and a misdemeanor conviction for a trespass to residence committed when I was 17, nearly ten years ago. Anything else on my record would be strictly traffic related. Is there anyway to tell what the outlook would be for someone like me? What typically gets the board to uphold an objection?

[WARFACE]

Wow this state is ****** up.

 

So is there any precedent to the objections which the board upholds and those that they reject? I'm assuming that those of us that don't meet the minimum eligibility requirements are denied immediately and never see a board hearing, correct? So what exactly is the board looking for?

 

I haven't had any run ins with the law since a dui arrest nearly 5 years ago. Since then my only offense has been a ticket for open container. Is there any limit to how far back the board looks? Do they consider arrests where the case was later dismissed in the same way that they would an arrest that eventually led to a conviction or deferred adjudication? I have no violent history short of an arrest when I was in high school nearly ten years ago (good lord I'm getting old) for a domestic that was completely dismissed in court. Outside of that I have a conviction for a dui I received nearly five years ago and a misdemeanor conviction for a trespass to residence committed when I was 17, nearly ten years ago. Anything else on my record would be strictly traffic related. Is there anyway to tell what the outlook would be for someone like me? What typically gets the board to uphold an objection?

Anything having to do with a domestic will usually cook your goose.

[Glock23]

 

Wow this state is ****** up.

 

So is there any precedent to the objections which the board upholds and those that they reject? I'm assuming that those of us that don't meet the minimum eligibility requirements are denied immediately and never see a board hearing, correct? So what exactly is the board looking for?

 

I haven't had any run ins with the law since a dui arrest nearly 5 years ago. Since then my only offense has been a ticket for open container. Is there any limit to how far back the board looks? Do they consider arrests where the case was later dismissed in the same way that they would an arrest that eventually led to a conviction or deferred adjudication? I have no violent history short of an arrest when I was in high school nearly ten years ago (good lord I'm getting old) for a domestic that was completely dismissed in court. Outside of that I have a conviction for a dui I received nearly five years ago and a misdemeanor conviction for a trespass to residence committed when I was 17, nearly ten years ago. Anything else on my record would be strictly traffic related. Is there anyway to tell what the outlook would be for someone like me? What typically gets the board to uphold an objection?

Anything having to do with a domestic will usually cook your goose.

 

I'd disagree with that.

 

The OP having previously lived in Cook County, it's almost a guarantee that the domestic arrest is the reason for the objection... but the fact that it was dismissed in court should uncook the goose, so to say.

[WARFACE]

 

 

Wow this state is ****** up.

 

So is there any precedent to the objections which the board upholds and those that they reject? I'm assuming that those of us that don't meet the minimum eligibility requirements are denied immediately and never see a board hearing, correct? So what exactly is the board looking for?

 

I haven't had any run ins with the law since a dui arrest nearly 5 years ago. Since then my only offense has been a ticket for open container. Is there any limit to how far back the board looks? Do they consider arrests where the case was later dismissed in the same way that they would an arrest that eventually led to a conviction or deferred adjudication? I have no violent history short of an arrest when I was in high school nearly ten years ago (good lord I'm getting old) for a domestic that was completely dismissed in court. Outside of that I have a conviction for a dui I received nearly five years ago and a misdemeanor conviction for a trespass to residence committed when I was 17, nearly ten years ago. Anything else on my record would be strictly traffic related. Is there anyway to tell what the outlook would be for someone like me? What typically gets the board to uphold an objection?

Anything having to do with a domestic will usually cook your goose.

 

I'd disagree with that.

 

The OP having previously lived in Cook County, it's almost a guarantee that the domestic arrest is the reason for the objection... but the fact that it was dismissed in court should uncook the goose, so to say.

 

It didn't "uncook" my friends goose. He pled down a domestic to a lesser charge to avoid a conviction and the state swooped in when he applied for his CCW and denied him AND yanked his FOID as the state is re-classifying plea deals ...Never convicted of anything mind you.

I would bet that the OP got jammed up because of the domestic and he will probably win in appeal but he is in for a looonnng wait. The OP should have expunged that arrest before applying.

[Glock23]

 

 

Anything having to do with a domestic will usually cook your goose.

 

 

I'd disagree with that.

 

The OP having previously lived in Cook County, it's almost a guarantee that the domestic arrest is the reason for the objection... but the fact that it was dismissed in court should uncook the goose, so to say.

 

It didn't "uncook" my friends goose. He pled down a domestic to a lesser charge to avoid a conviction and the state swooped in when he applied for his CCW and denied him AND yanked his FOID as the state is re-classifying plea deals ...Never convicted of anything mind you.

I would bet that the OP got jammed up because of the domestic and he will probably win in appeal but he is in for a looonnng wait. The OP should have expunged that arrest before applying.

 

A plea deal is a conviction. That's the whole point of the plea deal... to garner a guilty plea. I'd question what the ultimate charge was that he plead to, though. Regardless, the OP's case was dismissed in court. No pleas, no convictions, nada.

[Jmars0990]

I didn't plead down to anything though, which is why I'm wondering whether they consider an arrest which leads to a dismissal in court the same way as deferred adjudication, or copping a plea.

 

Unfortunately because I have a conviction for dui on my record I'm ineligible to have anything expunged. As far as the requirements go for being eligible for the ccw I meet every one. Not a felon, no convictions of domestic or any type of violence. Only 1 DUI in the past five years, no court ordered treatment and so on. So I'm wondering what would raise a red flag in the eyes of the board that doesn't necessarily make me ineligible by law. And why have these eligibility requirements if any leo can just go ahead and object based on their own subjective view of those that apply? Seems counter productive

[WARFACE]

My friends case is completely different but we will have to agree to disagree about a plea being a conviction. I don't have any data as to how many cases of domestic that LEO objects to but over the last 3 years there has plenty been said on these threads about anything domestic jamming people up.

IMO the OP will probably win and get his permit but the board is around a year behind on LEO objections and no telling what the board will rule.

I know someone who tried to expunge an arrest for DV that occurred over 15 years ago and the ISP flat out denied the expungement so "the jury is still out"(please excuse that...lol) on all this DV stuff.

Maybe Molly will weigh in on this but it has been my understanding since we got CCW in Illinois that the state was going to give DV arrests a hard time no matter what the deposition of their case was.

[WARFACE]

Jmars...who told you that you couldn't have anyhting on your record expunged? You can't have a DUI expunged but you most certainly can have a domestic expunged. You needed to do it before the state looked at your record.

[Glock23]

My friends case is completely different but we will have to agree to disagree about a plea being a conviction. I don't have any data as to how many cases of domestic that LEO objects to but over the last 3 years there has plenty been said on these threads about anything domestic jamming people up.

IMO the OP will probably win and get his permit but the board is around a year behind on LEO objections and no telling what the board will rule.

I know someone who tried to expunge an arrest for DV that occurred over 15 years ago and the ISP flat out denied the expungement so "the jury is still out"(please excuse that...lol) on all this DV stuff.

Maybe Molly will weigh in on this but it has been my understanding since we got CCW in Illinois that the state was going to give DV arrests a hard time no matter what the deposition of their case was.

 

It's not the state giving him a hard time for the DV arrest; it'd be whichever LEO agency submitted the objection (likely Cook county).

 

As for agreeing to disagree, I'll offer one more nugget. The only way a plea would not be considered a conviction is if the agreement included probation and the judge issued a Suspended Imposition of Sentence (SIS), rather than Suspended Execution of Sentence (SES). In that case, if you serve the terms of your probation successfully, the crime is essentially wiped from your record. This is why the SIS is considered the "golden ticket."

 

The basic definition of a plea agreement, however:

 

 

 

A guilty or no contest plea entered as a judge-approved plea bargain results in a criminal conviction; the defendant's guilt is established just as it would be after a trial. The conviction will show up on the defendant's criminal record (rap sheet).

[WARFACE]

 

My friends case is completely different but we will have to agree to disagree about a plea being a conviction. I don't have any data as to how many cases of domestic that LEO objects to but over the last 3 years there has plenty been said on these threads about anything domestic jamming people up.

IMO the OP will probably win and get his permit but the board is around a year behind on LEO objections and no telling what the board will rule.

I know someone who tried to expunge an arrest for DV that occurred over 15 years ago and the ISP flat out denied the expungement so "the jury is still out"(please excuse that...lol) on all this DV stuff.

Maybe Molly will weigh in on this but it has been my understanding since we got CCW in Illinois that the state was going to give DV arrests a hard time no matter what the deposition of their case was.

 

It's not the state giving him a hard time for the DV arrest; it'd be whichever LEO agency submitted the objection (likely Cook county).

 

As for agreeing to disagree, I'll offer one more nugget. The only way a plea would not be considered a conviction is if the agreement included probation and the judge issued a Suspended Imposition of Sentence (SIS), rather than Suspended Execution of Sentence (SES). In that case, if you serve the terms of your probation successfully, the crime is essentially wiped from your record. This is why the SIS is considered the "golden ticket."

 

The basic definition of a plea agreement, however:

 

 

 

A guilty or no contest plea entered as a judge-approved plea bargain results in a criminal conviction; the defendant's guilt is established just as it would be after a trial. The conviction will show up on the defendant's criminal record (rap sheet).

 

The SIS is what I was thinking of but the arrest still remains on your record unless you have it expunged. Correct me if I am wrong but you CAN have a DV expunged if you weren't found guilty, correct? If you had a DV and you pled down or were convicted, then the ISP will object to the expungement. It happened to my friend. Pled guilty to misdemeanor DV and went to expunge after 15 years and the ISP denied him. "No soup for him!"

The OP should have expunged before he applied but he will still probably get his hall pass, he is just going to wait, and wait, and then the board may still object and he may end up in court over it. I hope it doesn't happen like that but people are getting jammed up for a lot less.

[Glock23]

The SIS is what I was thinking of but the arrest still remains on your record unless you have it expunged. Correct me if I am wrong but you CAN have a DV expunged if you weren't found guilty, correct? If you had a DV and you pled down or were convicted, then the ISP will object to the expungement. It happened to my friend. Pled guilty to misdemeanor DV and went to expunge after 15 years and the ISP denied him. "No soup for him!"

 

The OP should have expunged before he applied but he will still probably get his hall pass, he is just going to wait, and wait, and then the board may still object and he may end up in court over it. I hope it doesn't happen like that but people are getting jammed up for a lot less.

 

 

Your friend could have appealed, assuming he met all the criteria for expungement.

 

Here's a website which addresses expunging domestic battery convictions in Illinois.

[Jmars0990]

Jmars...who told you that you couldn't have anyhting on your record expunged? You can't have a DUI expunged but you most certainly can have a domestic expunged. You needed to do it before the state looked at your record.

According to the clerk of cook county website if you have a conviction on your rap sheet none of your records can be expunged, only sealed.

[All Pro]

I am not 100% sure but the DUI alone stops the CCL for 5 years from the conviction date. Also domestics may make a CCL impossible.

 

Also expungments are more or less bulshite,the record almost always remains in the F.B.I. LEADS and NCIC data base.

[Molly B.]

Wow this state is ****** up.

 

So is there any precedent to the objections which the board upholds and those that they reject? I'm assuming that those of us that don't meet the minimum eligibility requirements are denied immediately and never see a board hearing, correct? So what exactly is the board looking for?

 

I haven't had any run ins with the law since a dui arrest nearly 5 years ago. Since then my only offense has been a ticket for open container. Is there any limit to how far back the board looks? Do they consider arrests where the case was later dismissed in the same way that they would an arrest that eventually led to a conviction or deferred adjudication? I have no violent history short of an arrest when I was in high school nearly ten years ago (good lord I'm getting old) for a domestic that was completely dismissed in court. Outside of that I have a conviction for a dui I received nearly five years ago and a misdemeanor conviction for a trespass to residence committed when I was 17, nearly ten years ago. Anything else on my record would be strictly traffic related. Is there anyway to tell what the outlook would be for someone like me? What typically gets the board to uphold an objection?

 

In Cook County, any record, arrest, or even a report filed without an arrest or conviction can result in an objection being filed. Sheriff Tom Dart brags about the number of objections he files. His anti-self-defense actions has created a huge backlog for the CCL Review Board. In most cases, the CCL RB can see through the frivolous objections and overrule them. The ones that get their attention are the domestic related objections, resisting arrest, reports of battery or threatening others. Before denying a license, the board will provide an opportunity for the applicant to respond to the objection.

[WARFACE]

 

The SIS is what I was thinking of but the arrest still remains on your record unless you have it expunged. Correct me if I am wrong but you CAN have a DV expunged if you weren't found guilty, correct? If you had a DV and you pled down or were convicted, then the ISP will object to the expungement. It happened to my friend. Pled guilty to misdemeanor DV and went to expunge after 15 years and the ISP denied him. "No soup for him!"

 

The OP should have expunged before he applied but he will still probably get his hall pass, he is just going to wait, and wait, and then the board may still object and he may end up in court over it. I hope it doesn't happen like that but people are getting jammed up for a lot less.

 

 

Your friend could have appealed, assuming he met all the criteria for expungement.

 

Here's a website which addresses expunging domestic battery convictions in Illinois.

 

My friend pled guilty to misdemeanor domestic battery so he was/is ineligible. I had some things expunged from my record before I applied. Nothing that would have really hung me up but I didn't want to take any chances so I know a few things about it.